Ted Kennedy was a bastard and now he's dead!

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

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I actually completely agree with your assertions why Kennedy is overrated. Whilst I do admire Bobby Kennedy, I think JFK & Teddy were pretty corrupt & unfairly lionized, particularly over JFK's role in Vietnam. However, none of that justifies putting up a thread celebrating a man's death (we're not talking Hitler or a serial paedophile here). I've seen very little sycophantic exaggerations on here & even if people do stuff that pisses you off & angers you, try what I do 90% of the time, just let it go & move on. If I created a thread every time someone said something that I said was bullshit, I'd have about 3000 more posts ;)

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by miles

I actually quite agree with you on this thread, Lyle. I don't buy into the whole Kennedy family nonsense at all. Ted Kennedy might have had his good points but he was a grossly flawed character, much like the rest of them.

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I do appreciate the support I get in this thread when I get it, thank you miles.

As an American I can just tell you I always found it very disturbing that anyone would ever bestow the title "America's Royal Family" to any family....how do you think any of the Founding Fathers would treat that? I think fellow Bostonian and agitator of the British Samuel Adams would have a fucking fit over such a frivilous title being given to the Kennedy's and I am sure Sam Adams wouldn't have been alone in his dislike of that kind of bullshit media hype.

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That "Royal Family" stuff kills me. The whole idea of royalty goes against everything for which this country stands. Call "American's more influential/well recognized/something else family", but we have no royalty here and it's actually an insult to them to call them royalty. Sam, George, TJ and the rest would not be happy about this.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

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I actually completely agree with your assertions why Kennedy is overrated. Whilst I do admire Bobby Kennedy, I think JFK & Teddy were pretty corrupt & unfairly lionized, particularly over JFK's role in Vietnam. However, none of that justifies putting up a thread celebrating a man's death (we're not talking Hitler or a serial paedophile here). I've seen very little sycophantic exaggerations on here & even if people do stuff that pisses you off & angers you, try what I do 90% of the time, just let it go & move on. If I created a thread every time someone said something that I said was bullshit, I'd have about 3000 more posts ;)

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I know there is the old expression 'dont speak ill of the dead' i think that means 'dont say behind someones back what you wouldnt say to their face'. But if it means ; for the protection of those closest with feelings towards the deceased, then I wonder what is the acceptable time span between their death and their truth is?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Jaz, what am I to do when people say "Ted Kennedy was the lion of the Senate"...or "The Kennedy's are America's Royal Family"....I'm sorry I don't take kindly to such sycophantic exaggerations especially in the case of Ted Kennedy. Ted Kennedy served the US in the best way he knew how, but the only reason he was a "Senator for Life" was because he was a Kennedy and that reason may have also kept him (and his other infamous family members) out of prison.

My comment to make it know that I am fair and balanced did come 2 years ago but when was the last time someone like a Rev. Falwell passed away for me to comment on them? The only person I can think of that has "recently" passed that comes close to being a Republican version of Ted Kennedy is maybe MAYBE Jesse Helms, but then again #1 Jesse never killed anyone, #2 Jesse never got any relatives off of rape charges and #3 He never tried to undermine US national security by working with the Soviets

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Huh?? You equate Kennedy with Falwell or Helms? I hardly think so. Take away their political leanings and thats no balancing act. Try to hold the right to the same standard you hold the left.

Oh, and Teddy got William off on rape? Willie was guilty And Ted got him off? do tell.

Andre, I have never thought any different of Teddy Kennedy, and death hasn't endowed him with any redeeming qualities so I have never put on like he will be missed which I think would be more dispicable.


CGM, OK let's take away the political leanings of Falwell and Jesse Helms...who killed somebody and then forgot to tell the cops until after the body was found? Falwell? Helms??? And if we bring Politics back into play, who endangered US national security just to get at his political rival?

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Andre, I have never thought any different of Teddy Kennedy, and death hasn't endowed him with any redeeming qualities so I have never put on like he will be missed which I think would be more dispicable.


CGM, OK let's take away the political leanings of Falwell and Jesse Helms...who killed somebody and then forgot to tell the cops until after the body was found? Falwell? Helms??? And if we bring Politics back into play, who endangered US national security just to get at his political rival?

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I agree, in no way should you change your opinion on him. However, appearing to take pleasure in his death reflects very poorly on you Lyle

....well on the bright side, Ted Kennedy finally made me happy, does that count for something?

To tell you the truth, I dislike what Teddy stood for (politically and socially) and bar him killing Mary Jo and bar him getting his nephew off a rape charge...both of which were dispicable and reflect poorly on his moral fiber. I think he would have been ok to hang out with.

Teddy did some good, but I can't see celebrating the guy the way they did considering what he had done in his life.

As far as the celebration goes, it is over the top. Just more of the glorified famous person died massive media air time formula. Atleast it gave MJ a bit of a break.

I think it has more to do with the whole Kennedy lineage then just him personally.

Yes and that "Kennedy lineage" is exactly what I don't appreciate. The 24/7 news is idiotic, it's gotten to be like Entertainment instead of NEWS the line has blurred and there's no going back now.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

....well on the bright side, Ted Kennedy finally made me happy, does that count for something?

To tell you the truth, I dislike what Teddy stood for (politically and socially) and bar him killing Mary Jo and bar him getting his nephew off a rape charge...both of which were dispicable and reflect poorly on his moral fiber. I think he would have been ok to hang out with.

Teddy did some good, but I can't see celebrating the guy the way they did considering what he had done in his life.

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Well, it's had fairly controlled exposure here, but I guess it might be a bit crazier over there. I got pretty pissed off with the hype when MJ died, so if it's like that I can understand venting, but whatever the situation, unless we're talking a genocidal maniac or some serial sex offender, I can't see celebrating a person's death, even in that situation I might not.

Personally, I just feel that is the sickest thing to do for yourself, if you have to celebrate another's demise. I don't think his failures should be glossed over & I'm guessing there are people doing that over there, in which case, I can understand even though it's still wrong. I felt similar when everyone was telling me Michael Jackson was some dynamic, heroic leader rather than a pop star with a penchant for 12 year old boys

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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I would literally dance on Reagan's grave if I got the chance.

Well, that's not true. But I have nothing good to say about him.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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I would literally dance on Reagan's grave if I got the chance.

Well, that's not true. But I have nothing good to say about him.

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That's just as bad as what Lyle said about Kennedy. He made some bad foreign policy decisions based on a faulted domino theory, but he was dead on right about ending the cold war by outspending the Soviets. He also restored confidence in ourselves and our nation for many Americans, and his economic policy in hindsight worked out well. He was a very good diplomat. In one of the great ironies of politics, the "conservative" Reagan used mass government spending in the defense industry to stimulate the economy. It was pure John Maynard Keynes. The idea was the when the economy rebounded, we could pay back the debt, and it happened exactly like that.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Meh, I didn't even celebrate Reagan's death but to each his own I guess. I do believe you should say about dead people what you did when they were alive. Seriously though I doubt you care that much about Chappaquiddick really.

To me he was the greatest of the Kennedy brothers. Not a big fan of JFK or Bobby really.

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I would literally dance on Reagan's grave if I got the chance.

Well, that's not true. But I have nothing good to say about him.

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That's just as bad as what Lyle said about Kennedy. He made some bad foreign policy decisions based on a faulted domino theory, but he was dead on right about ending the cold war by outspending the Soviets. He also restored confidence in ourselves and our nation for many Americans, and his economic policy in hindsight worked out well. He was a very good diplomat. In one of the great ironies of politics, the "conservative" Reagan used mass government spending in the defense industry to stimulate the economy. It was pure John Maynard Keynes. The idea was the when the economy rebounded, we could pay back the debt, and it happened exactly like that.

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Of course it it. I'm just trying to piss off Lyle because he's being a hypocrite by starting this very "uncouth" thread, something he tried to have Kirkland banned for.

I make a point of staying away from political arguments/discussions on here these days because nothing good ever comes of them which is why I won't bother arguing with you about Reagan.

I like the international perspective when I talk politics here. I also feel the need to be reasonable voice between Lyle (who seems to be moving more and more to the right) and large contingency of people on the left and far left.