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I kinda agree with Althugs. Anyone who is wishing , hoping, suggesting less fans show up is pretty negative and should ask themselves why that is. Dont let your dislike for one fighter overtake your love for the sport. It kinda makes me sad to hear anyone say that on this board. It is negative and simply hating. Like the person or not, harping on what is good news for boxing is just, meh, sad..
:shakehead:
I am not dissing Mayweather (though my dislike for him is quite notorious, I gotta admit), I was simply answering the part where he says that he doesn't see any other boxing star at the moment dragging such a big crowd. Sure, it is good for boxing, if even the boxer I strongly dislikes can drag new amateurs it is damn good, new blood to share the love of the sport with and new people to disagree and agree with, I just found that he was going a bit far saying that no other stars at the moment can bring such big ppv on the table, that is all. Thus said, sorry if my post was confusing or something, my sole intention was to underline that Floyd wasn't the biggest drag in at the gate at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
I cannot see how in any way that answers his question :-\. As long as BOTH Pacquiao & Mayweather bring new fans for boxing it cannot be a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessWell, Manny Pacquiao brings more audience on the table than Mayweather and he's way more spectacular if it can answer your question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
I think one mass assumption that people make is that 'casual' fans want to see people getting KO'd which isn't necessarily the case. All but 2 of the 12 people who came to mine last week to watch the fight were the definition of casual fans, some of who had never seen the fight. ALL of them came away excited by it, mainly Mayweather's skill & athletic ability (& with the women, mainly Mayweather).
I agree with that apart from the last sentence. I do think right now he is the biggest star in terms of bringing 'casual' fans in, although the Pacquiao/Cotto fight will tell us a lot about how close he & Pac are in terms of doing that. I would certainly say Pac has a bigger hardcore fanbase, but I think their respective numbers against the same opponents show Floyd is the bigger 'draw'. I do think they are the only 2 currently transcending the sport in any way, although Cotto is not far off & I suspect he does the same should he beat Manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessI am not dissing Mayweather (though my dislike for him is quite notorious, I gotta admit), I was simply answering the part where he says that he doesn't see any other boxing star at the moment dragging such a big crowd. Sure, it is good for boxing, if even the boxer I strongly dislikes can drag new amateurs it is damn good, new blood to share the love of the sport with and new people to disagree and agree with, I just found that he was going a bit far saying that no other stars at the moment can bring such big ppv on the table, that is all. Thus said, sorry if my post was confusing or something, my sole intention was to underline that Floyd wasn't the biggest drag in at the gate at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI cannot see how in any way that answers his question :-\. As long as BOTH Pacquiao & Mayweather bring new fans for boxing it cannot be a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
I think one mass assumption that people make is that 'casual' fans want to see people getting KO'd which isn't necessarily the case. All but 2 of the 12 people who came to mine last week to watch the fight were the definition of casual fans, some of who had never seen the fight. ALL of them came away excited by it, mainly Mayweather's skill & athletic ability (& with the women, mainly Mayweather).
PBF owes much of his PPV numbers to GBP insane marketing of this fight, and to HBO 24/7. And to his cracked out family.
He's as popular as O.J. Simpson, and about as well liked.
Let's ignore you choosing to compare a boxer to a man widely suspected of murder. Let's focus on you inability to differentiate between 'popular' and 'well liked'. (I'll give you a clue they mean the same thing)Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I think Mayweather pulled off a marketing masterstroke with his appearances on 'Dancing with the Stars' and WWE programming. He put himself in the mainstream view and opened doors to new fans... in fact, I'm pretty sure that a lot of WWE fans shelled out cash to see his return to boxing, solely because he generated interest from them with his appearances there last year.
I think he has played the retirement ploy perfectly. He always knew he would come back, so did some of us, but the general Joe on the street bought it hook, line & sinker. I'm willing to bet that Mayweather would not have made nearly as much money from fighting Marquez straight after he beat Hatton, compared to fighting him now. What builds interest more than the return of a star? An unbeaten star at that... an unbeaten star that appeared on two very, very widely watched mainstream shows in America. The man knows how to play the game, in and out of the ring.
Floyd has increased his notoriety massively with his mainstream appearances, and all the while he was building anticipation with the speculation of his possible return. Just because someone is not a fan-favourite, does not mean they will not sell well (Many people seem to fail to grasp this point!). Fans enjoy enemies, Floyd knows this, we all do. You are just as likely to cheer for the loss of someone that you hate, as you are for the victory of someone that you adore. Mayweather always slotted into the bad-guy role, made himself appear like a prick, and the majority of people bought it all along, lining his pockets with just as much dough as fighters that are generally worshipped as Gods.
Floyd has his fans too of course, usually those that appreciate the sweet science at its most fluid and see passed his bad-boy antics (or maybe even appreciate them!) I have always enjoyed Floyd and how well he can rile people up, and of course once he steps foot in the ring it is like poetry in motion most of the time. A phenomenal talent, for real.
Good on him for being successful, in more ways than one.
My :twocents:
It's funny that people can claim he's not a draw or try to find ways around Mayweather selling so much; but tthe fact is how many PPV events has Mayweather been in? this record that Mayweather has set is in 6 PPV fights a lot less than fighters liuke Lennox etc and he has already surpassed them!
You cannot argue with the facts, I mean if Mayweather were to not fight the winner of Pac Cotto or Moseley I may no longer be a fan of the guy but I could not deny he is a HUGE draw to be the 4th ranked fighter for PPV in teh history of the sport means you are a HUGELY successful fighter!
The hate for Mayweather is amazing but not unexpected, the fighter I hated the most of all time is the one many feel to be the greatest of all time, I don't feel he was the greatest of all time but I did tune in just to watch him get his ass kicked and I was lucky enough to see it happen a few times. The Floyd haters has not seen that happen to him yet but it will come one day unless he retires for good in the next couple of years. Just keep on hating on Mayweather but in the end of it all he is and will be considered an ATG. The same goes for Manny but he will be considered an ATG also, even after Floyd beats him if his advisors allow him in the ring with Floyd which in my opinion is very doubtful.
I am not sure Jaz, I think that Pacman has the hand over as well on the casual fan because of the excitement he smears all around, as it as been quoted below, I think that Floyd got a bit more excitement and used to sell a bit more because of the 24/7 and because of the way he got into rangeview with the WWE, Dancing with the stars etc. I still agree and am willing to admit that he drags more than what I wanted to say or think but still not enough to be compared to the Pacman in term of rentability and popularity. Not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI agree with that apart from the last sentence. I do think right now he is the biggest star in terms of bringing 'casual' fans in, although the Pacquiao/Cotto fight will tell us a lot about how close he & Pac are in terms of doing that. I would certainly say Pac has a bigger hardcore fanbase, but I think their respective numbers against the same opponents show Floyd is the bigger 'draw'. I do think they are the only 2 currently transcending the sport in any way, although Cotto is not far off & I suspect he does the same should he beat Manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessI am not dissing Mayweather (though my dislike for him is quite notorious, I gotta admit), I was simply answering the part where he says that he doesn't see any other boxing star at the moment dragging such a big crowd. Sure, it is good for boxing, if even the boxer I strongly dislikes can drag new amateurs it is damn good, new blood to share the love of the sport with and new people to disagree and agree with, I just found that he was going a bit far saying that no other stars at the moment can bring such big ppv on the table, that is all. Thus said, sorry if my post was confusing or something, my sole intention was to underline that Floyd wasn't the biggest drag in at the gate at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Your talking about your personal opinion and not the facts! Pacman is not in the top 10 all time PPV attractions despite the fact that every boxing fan knows he is more exciting than Floyd. (Not a better fighter) Floyd is 4th on that list, fourth! that means that he has to be considered the biggest PPV fighter out at the moment. in my opinion Pacmans next fight will do huge numbers close to or over a million aswell but the fact with that is Cotto is a huge draw and so is pac. when Floyd fought Marquez he was the huge draw Marquez is no huge draw!! Mayweather can do a million now fighting anybody! he is a huge draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessI am not sure Jaz, I think that Pacman has the hand over as well on the casual fan because of the excitement he smears all around, as it as been quoted below, I think that Floyd got a bit more excitement and used to sell a bit more because of the 24/7 and because of the way he got into rangeview with the WWE, Dancing with the stars etc. I still agree and am willing to admit that he drags more than what I wanted to say or think but still not enough to be compared to the Pacman in term of rentability and popularity. Not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinI agree with that apart from the last sentence. I do think right now he is the biggest star in terms of bringing 'casual' fans in, although the Pacquiao/Cotto fight will tell us a lot about how close he & Pac are in terms of doing that. I would certainly say Pac has a bigger hardcore fanbase, but I think their respective numbers against the same opponents show Floyd is the bigger 'draw'. I do think they are the only 2 currently transcending the sport in any way, although Cotto is not far off & I suspect he does the same should he beat Manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Boxing's Top Pay Per View Attractions
1. Oscar De La Hoya - $610.6 million on 12.6 million buys (18 events)
2. Mike Tyson - $545 million on 12.4 million buys (12 events)
3. Evander Holyfield - $543 million on 12.6 million buys (14 events)
4. Floyd Mayweather $355 Million Dollars on 7.15 Million Buys (6 events)
##(pre 9/19/09)
Floyd Mayweather $303 Million Dollars on 6.15 Million Buys (5 events)
(post 9/19/2009)
Floyd Mayweather $355 Million Dollars on 7.15 Million Buys (6 events)
Cotto is not a huge draw and neither is Pac. Margarito/Cotto if I'm not mistaken did less than 500,000 ppv buys. Pac-Diaz did less than 200,000 ppv buys. The U.S. general public doesn't know who they are. Hell even quite a lot of US boxing fans don't even know who they are. They are seen as 2 foreign and unknown fighters. It's mainly hardcore boxing fans that know who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by piyeYour talking about your personal opinion and not the facts! Pacman is not in the top 10 all time PPV attractions despite the fact that every boxing fan knows he is more exciting than Floyd. (Not a better fighter) Floyd is 4th on that list, fourth! that means that he has to be considered the biggest PPV fighter out at the moment. in my opinion Pacmans next fight will do huge numbers close to or over a million aswell but the fact with that is Cotto is a huge draw and so is pac. when Floyd fought Marquez he was the huge draw Marquez is no huge draw!! Mayweather can do a million now fighting anybody! he is a huge draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessI am not sure Jaz, I think that Pacman has the hand over as well on the casual fan because of the excitement he smears all around, as it as been quoted below, I think that Floyd got a bit more excitement and used to sell a bit more because of the 24/7 and because of the way he got into rangeview with the WWE, Dancing with the stars etc. I still agree and am willing to admit that he drags more than what I wanted to say or think but still not enough to be compared to the Pacman in term of rentability and popularity. Not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Wow I did not know that the Pac diaz fight did not sell, But since then he's been in two big fights against Oscar and against Hatton surely he's a big draw now? and Cotto Is a big draw at the gate anyway if not PPV.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogCotto is not a huge draw and neither is Pac. Margarito/Cotto if I'm not mistaken did less than 500,000 ppv buys. Pac-Diaz did less than 200,000 ppv buys. The U.S. general public doesn't know who they are. Hell even quite a lot of US boxing fans don't even know who they are. They are seen as 2 foreign and unknown fighters. It's mainly hardcore boxing fans that know who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by piyeYour talking about your personal opinion and not the facts! Pacman is not in the top 10 all time PPV attractions despite the fact that every boxing fan knows he is more exciting than Floyd. (Not a better fighter) Floyd is 4th on that list, fourth! that means that he has to be considered the biggest PPV fighter out at the moment. in my opinion Pacmans next fight will do huge numbers close to or over a million aswell but the fact with that is Cotto is a huge draw and so is pac. when Floyd fought Marquez he was the huge draw Marquez is no huge draw!! Mayweather can do a million now fighting anybody! he is a huge draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Hatton became somewhat known in U.S. boxing circles after his fight with Floyd, and imo he was the reason why Pac-Cotto did 800,000+ ppv fights (there are a lot of British expats in the US also), De La Hoya was the main reason why DLH-Pac did 1.3 million buys not Pac. Pac by his name alone against other fighters did very poor numbers, I forgot what the exact ppv numbers were for Pac-Marquez 2, Pac-Mab 2, Pac-Morales 1-3, but they all did poor sales for an alleged superstar. Pac is a superstar in boxing, but that's it, he doesn't have widespread appeal to the American general public, same with Cotto, the Cotto-Pac fight may not even do 500,000 PPVs.Quote:
Originally Posted by piyeWow I did not know that the Pac diaz fight did not sell, But since then he's been in two big fights against Oscar and against Hatton surely he's a big draw now? and Cotto Is a big draw at the gate anyway if not PPV.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogCotto is not a huge draw and neither is Pac. Margarito/Cotto if I'm not mistaken did less than 500,000 ppv buys. Pac-Diaz did less than 200,000 ppv buys. The U.S. general public doesn't know who they are. Hell even quite a lot of US boxing fans don't even know who they are. They are seen as 2 foreign and unknown fighters. It's mainly hardcore boxing fans that know who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by piye
I think it'll do more than that, well I hope anyway. having two huge PPV stars in boxing is good for the bussiness! and is the only hope of a fight ever replacing Mayweather V DLH atop the PPV rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogHatton became somewhat known in U.S. boxing circles after his fight with Floyd, and imo he was the reason why Pac-Cotto did 800,000+ ppv fights (there are a lot of British expats in the US also), De La Hoya was the main reason why DLH-Pac did 1.3 million buys not Pac. Pac by his name alone against other fighters did very poor numbers, I forgot what the exact ppv numbers were for Pac-Marquez 2, Pac-Mab 2, Pac-Morales 1-3, but they all did poor sales for an alleged superstar. Pac is a superstar in boxing, but that's it, he doesn't have widespread appeal to the American general public, same with Cotto, the Cotto-Pac fight may not even do 500,000 PPVs.Quote:
Originally Posted by piyeWow I did not know that the Pac diaz fight did not sell, But since then he's been in two big fights against Oscar and against Hatton surely he's a big draw now? and Cotto Is a big draw at the gate anyway if not PPV.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog