Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Roy over Ali?? No way. Roy would probably beat him now.
Ali would get Roy quick IMO. Roy's biggest advantage is speed but although he is not as fast as Roy, Ali was far bigger and had freak speed in hand, feet and reflex and the outcome would be a KO for Ali.
Can't believe I am going against Roy so much but I'm trying to remain sensible. Any of the ATG HW's would be too much for Roy Jones who is basically a blown up MW with freakish power, Speed and skill. But HW's are just too much for even the likes of Roy. I mean look at his fight with Ruiz, yes he was dominant but that wasn't the dominant fighter that destroyed everyone and everything at LHW.
Roys natural size is similar to SRR (who is the only man I think is def better than Roy p4p) and he too would have no chance with any ATG big man!
Styles make fights, and Ali ate tooo many left hooks, wide and slow left hooks at that. Roy would have a field day not to mention he'd be making Ali miss which would also play against him.
I'm taking Roy over any of the smaller heavies ATG or not. With the exception of Tyson who is probably the quickest heavy in history on foot. Roy would beat them. 190-220 If they fall in that range I'd take Roy. Yeah Ali was quick because he averaged around 205-210 before going to prison.
I think Roy's advantage would be his smarts against the rest of them. Against an aggressive guy like tyson who is quick enough to get into position to throw and had a great chin as well would be too much.
first off Ali never technically went to prison he was out on bail and couldn't leave the country, and wasn't allowed a license
given that Ruiz of all people was able to get Jones on the ropes on numerous occasions, and Ruiz isn't a big HW, Ali would have murdered Jones at HW
We're talking about prime roy, he wasn't prime against ruiz and he only went to the ropes by choice..not to mention ali wasn't a push and hug guy like ruiz so i dont see how that helps the argument.
Besides you mention ruiz a guy who had one of the worst styles ever, he made eveyr HW he's faced post tua look awkward in trying to handle his style. Roy toyed with ruiz.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
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Originally Posted by
LethalChris
I think Roy Jones' flamboyant and further more articulate style would be too intricate for tysons head strong brutal power. Its Roy Jones all the way for me (assuming were talking about a pound for pound match up here)
You can't really say a p4p match though as both fighters were great at using their natural gifts i.e. Tyson used his brute strength and speed for a big guy well, whereas Jones used his freak athleticism.
If they had fought after the Ruiz fight then Jones may have had a chance,but a prime Tyson would have got to him eventually in his prime I have no doubt.
Being a fantasy match up; Roy tko in 8.
If the two were magically the same weight somewhere in the middle of where they both naturally fought and both prime I would go with Roy because he was supreme in his confidence in his ability to counter and bend in the wind and never get caught cold full force or comming forwards by anyone.
Tyson got his own way alot and used intimidation backed with brute strength and single mindedness to suit his tight wicked style. Roy would not have been fased by any of it pre fight or on the night. Roy would have frustrated Mike (and thats the key).
He'd be already moving and throwing a counter as Mike started any solid move; catching him then creating other angles so Mike would eventually make even more mistakes going for broke and get caught continually and the fight would be stopped for his own good.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
Andre
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Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
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Originally Posted by
LethalChris
I think Roy Jones' flamboyant and further more articulate style would be too intricate for tysons head strong brutal power. Its Roy Jones all the way for me (assuming were talking about a pound for pound match up here)
You can't really say a p4p match though as both fighters were great at using their natural gifts i.e. Tyson used his brute strength and speed for a big guy well, whereas Jones used his freak athleticism.
If they had fought after the Ruiz fight then Jones may have had a chance,but a prime Tyson would have got to him eventually in his prime I have no doubt.
Being a fantasy match up; Roy tko in 8.
If the two were magically the same weight somewhere in the middle of where they both naturally fought and both prime I would go with Roy because he was supreme in his confidence in his ability to counter and bend in the wind and never get caught cold full force or comming forwards by anyone.
Tyson got his own way alot and used intimidation backed with brute strength and single mindedness to suit his tight wicked style. Roy would not have been fased by any of it pre fight or on the night. Roy would have
frustrated Mike (and thats the key).
He'd be already moving and throwing a counter as Mike started any solid move; catching him then creating other angles so Mike would eventually make even more mistakes going for broke and get caught continually and the fight would be stopped for his own good.
Well I remember after Griffin II there was a lot of talk of Roy (IMO in his prime) taking on Buster Douglas. This is when his Dad got back in contact with Roy because he was fearing for his sons safety and no-one knows Roy as well as Snr and obviously he thought that Heavies were too big for him.
Well whatever happened when they fought, I believe Tyson was better than Douglas.
If they could as you say magically become the same size then yes Roy would win, For me in his prime Roy was p4p not just the best fighter in the world but the hardest puncher and the fastest in hand and reflex's. But to be honest and this may be me being something of a Roy fanboy if everyone could be made the same size magically Roy would beat anyone in history with "perhaps" the exception of SRR but if I were to put money on that I would go for Roy!
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
levi#1BoxingFan
I realize this is a bit of a fantasy match and the two are slightly different in weight, but Roy jones given a few pounds in his prime vs a prime Mike Tyson, who wins?
Sorry, But Tyson would have Murdered Jones Jr.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
jones beat the arguebly the worst heavy champ of all time, then he could of fought Lennox Lewis but he was smart he knew ruiz was terrible & he could win title then move back down in weight & dodge the real good heavies. saying that i think RJJ had a small chance of beating tyson after beating ruiz, but both in there prime i believe tyson would of destroyed him. RJJ was one of the p4p fighters of all time in my book but really didnt fight the best opposition which is a shame:(
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
When the fight was seriously considered after Jones beat Ruiz, Tyson was still half decent and would have blitzed Roy.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
Master
When the fight was seriously considered after Jones beat Ruiz, Tyson was still half decent and would have blitzed Roy.
agreed! But only for about 2 rounds. Then he would have had to result to trying to bait and catch Roy. Tyson's stamina was non existent by then.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by
Master
When the fight was seriously considered after Jones beat Ruiz, Tyson was still half decent and would have blitzed Roy.
agreed! But only for about 2 rounds. Then he would have had to result to trying to bait and catch Roy. Tyson's stamina was non existent by then.
if roy could jab & run & fustrate tyson he would revert to some kind of madness i think
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
Drago
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by
Master
When the fight was seriously considered after Jones beat Ruiz, Tyson was still half decent and would have blitzed Roy.
agreed! But only for about 2 rounds. Then he would have had to result to trying to bait and catch Roy. Tyson's stamina was non existent by then.
if roy could jab & run & fustrate tyson he would revert to some kind of madness i think
Remember the fighter that did beat Tyson at that time were heavier than him and used their weight. Roy would not do that otherwise he would have been decapitated by Tyson.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
Master
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Originally Posted by
Drago
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
agreed! But only for about 2 rounds. Then he would have had to result to trying to bait and catch Roy. Tyson's stamina was non existent by then.
if roy could jab & run & fustrate tyson he would revert to some kind of madness i think
Remember the fighter that did beat Tyson at that time were heavier than him and used their weight. Roy would not do that otherwise he would have been decapitated by Tyson.
even if he wouldn't get physically tired, by the time Tyson fought Williams, if you lasted more then 4 rounds he would mentally implode at the thought of having to actually put in work, and he'd just mentally break down and want to quit, IMO the Jones that fought Ruiz would have frustrated the Tyson that lost to Williams and would have made him quit due to that frustration
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Master
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Originally Posted by
Drago
if roy could jab & run & fustrate tyson he would revert to some kind of madness i think
Remember the fighter that did beat Tyson at that time were heavier than him and used their weight. Roy would not do that otherwise he would have been decapitated by Tyson.
even if he wouldn't get physically tired, by the time Tyson fought Williams, if you lasted more then 4 rounds he would mentally implode at the thought of having to actually put in work, and he'd just mentally break down and want to quit, IMO the Jones that fought Ruiz would have frustrated the Tyson that lost to Williams and would have made him quit due to that frustration
yeah well put! the tyson in his prime would of killed RJ tho
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
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Originally Posted by
JonesJrMayweather
I agree prime tyson would have been too much. Roy may have danced around but he always had a bad habit of staying too close too long believing in his ability. Even Ruiz caught him in that first round and stunned him, had that been a real HW hitter roy would have gone down.
Tyson's not an all time great in terms of career, but he's definitely up there in terms of hand power, agility, and quickness. Couple that with the fact that Tyson is like a shark when he smells blood. He would have known Roy was smaller and this would have given him extra motivation.
Its Ironic that Id pick prime tyson over roy, but I'd take Roy over Ali.
Roy over Ali?? No way. Roy would probably beat him now.
Ali would get Roy quick IMO. Roy's biggest advantage is speed but although he is not as fast as Roy, Ali was far bigger and had freak speed in hand, feet and reflex and the outcome would be a KO for Ali.
Can't believe I am going against Roy so much but I'm trying to remain sensible. Any of the ATG HW's would be too much for Roy Jones who is basically a blown up MW with freakish power, Speed and skill. But HW's are just too much for even the likes of Roy. I mean look at his fight with Ruiz, yes he was dominant but that wasn't the dominant fighter that destroyed everyone and everything at LHW.
Roys natural size is similar to SRR (who is the only man I think is def better than Roy p4p) and he too would have no chance with any ATG big man!
I don't think its out of the question, that RJJ could of beat Muhammad Ali. Doug Jones gave Muhammad Ali all he could handle, he was only 188 pounds, Henry Cooper dropped him like a sack he was only 185 pounds, and Sonny Banks also dropped Muhammad Ali he was only 191 pounds.
If were talking about the early Muhammad Ali of the 60s, who wasn't much over 200 pounds, and RJJ was say 190 pounds or so. He could very well give Muhammad Ali fits with his speed and athletic ability.
I don't think he would personally win, but i think he would stylistically. Give Muhammad Ali a tough time, the only thing that worries me is RJJ's chin. But he did take some flush Heavyweight punches off John Ruiz, who was 220+.
And despite what you say about John Ruiz, he still knocked Evander Holyfield down heavily. And had him on queer street, and i personally think John Ruiz beat Evander Holyfield 2-1, and remember this was the same Evander Holyfield fresh off his two fights with Lennox Lewis.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
the problem is ali fought all the best opponents, RJJ didnt. if they had of fought i would put alot of money on ali to win
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
Drago
the problem is ali fought all the best opponents, RJJ didnt. if they had of fought i would put alot of money on ali to win
Yea and i think Muhammad Ali should have atleast 9 or 10 losses, on his record but thats a debate for another day. I just think people overrate Muhammad Ali a bit too much, i don't think its crazy to think a 190 pound RJJ, who still keeps his attributes, could trouble the Muhammad Ali who was just over 200 pounds, and was hurt and troubled by fighters who would be technically Cruiserweights today.
Re: Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
Drago
the problem is ali fought all the best opponents, RJJ didnt. if they had of fought i would put alot of money on ali to win
Yea and i think Muhammad Ali should have atleast 10 losses, on his record but thats a debate for another day. I just think people overrate Muhammad Ali a bit too much, i don't think its crazy to think a 190 pound RJJ, who still keeps his attributes, could trouble the Muhammad Ali who was just over 200 pounds, and was hurt and troubled by fighters who would be technically Cruiserweights today.
good point ali did have a few gifts but he at least fought everyone, its a real sahme RJJ didnt fight collins, eubank & benn he would of probably beat them all but a real shame he didnt.
