I can tell you that effectively, he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
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I can tell you that effectively, he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I never said they all were Americans, I just said they were patriots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Japan was NOT willing to surrender, have you ever looked at how many people on both sides were dying in the island hopping campaign building up to an actual invasion of Japan proper??? The bomb saved lives FACT...it wasn't much of a message to the Russians, they built their own bombs undeterred by the US having them already, so I fail to see your reasoning.
Why must everything be evil and war crimes with you??? I guess in your opinion we would have been better off losing World War II
Lyle... I can give you some very good lectures about it... one of my teacher in montreal was Michel Fortmann, one of the greatest expert about the nuclear question and nuclear history, he did showed us with documents proving Japan wanted to surrender but wanted to save the Emperor's life. The Americans knew it. The Brits too. They had nothing remaining, hell, they were charging machine guns platoons with their swords because they had nothing remaining. FACT. Meanwhile, not only wanting an inconditionnal surrender and to lend a message to the Russians (who, in conventional war had the advantage of 50 soldiers for one via the rest of Europe and 10 tanks vs 1. Everybody did fear the russians would invade the rest of Europe and Stalin did ponder it. Add to it that Truman wanted to justify the spending of 3 billions dollars (staggering for the time) for a military project that would have been useless otherwise, you have the reason why they wanted to drop the bomb. The thing to save life was just an added up propaganda. FACT. Japan had nothing remaining, almost no ammos, no tanks, no airplanes and no boats.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleI never said they all were Americans, I just said they were patriots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Japan was NOT willing to surrender, have you ever looked at how many people on both sides were dying in the island hopping campaign building up to an actual invasion of Japan proper??? The bomb saved lives FACT...it wasn't much of a message to the Russians, they built their own bombs undeterred by the US having them already, so I fail to see your reasoning.
Why must everything be evil and war crimes with you??? I guess in your opinion we would have been better off losing World War II
Is 'F' sigmund freud? Thought Slim Pickens might of been there
No Freud over here neither Slim pickens, as CFH found out, these are all persons who are related closely to the history of the nuclear bomb. Any ideas for some of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleI never said they all were Americans, I just said they were patriots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Japan was NOT willing to surrender, have you ever looked at how many people on both sides were dying in the island hopping campaign building up to an actual invasion of Japan proper??? The bomb saved lives FACT...it wasn't much of a message to the Russians, they built their own bombs undeterred by the US having them already, so I fail to see your reasoning.
Why must everything be evil and war crimes with you??? I guess in your opinion we would have been better off losing World War II
Lyle. Everyone can have a big stick. It's a matter of who is prepared to use it.
Not only did the US use it, they used it twice. Truly shocking.
Why isnt slim pickens it? didnt he straddle it,whooping and hollering in 'Dr Strangelove'?Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessNo Freud over here neither Slim pickens, as CFH found out, these are all persons who are related closely to the history of the nuclear bomb. Any ideas for some of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36Why isnt slim pickens it? didnt he straddle it,whooping and hollering in 'Dr Strangelove'?Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessNo Freud over here neither Slim pickens, as CFH found out, these are all persons who are related closely to the history of the nuclear bomb. Any ideas for some of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
Great film
Oh he was great and it was a fantastic movie. However, I only picked up "real" peoples who have something to do with it. Your pick are welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36Why isnt slim pickens it? didnt he straddle it,whooping and hollering in 'Dr Strangelove'?Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessNo Freud over here neither Slim pickens, as CFH found out, these are all persons who are related closely to the history of the nuclear bomb. Any ideas for some of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36
Missy: This is also good for you.
We had to, Japan DID NOT want to surrender and here are some stats to prove itQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Mariana & Palau Islands Campaign - 9,500 Americans KIA; 63,000 Japanese KIA
Iwo Jima - nearly 7,000 Americans KIA; over 22,000 Japanese KIA
Okinawa - over 12,000 Americans KIA; over 110,000 Japanese KIA and maybe 42,000-150,000 civilians killed
The closer the US got to Honshu the more the Japanese threw at the US and the more fiercely they defended their land. In the end we dropped the bombs and it was the RIGHT THING TO DO. It saved more lives than it took.
Lyle... they defended themselves because they had to. Why do you think that so many Japs were killed compared to the US? because they had nothing more to defend themselves. Read a glorious way to die, the last day of the famous Yamamoto boat, I can suggest you other among other things. THe Japanese were about to surrender, you can even read a very good article about it written by Alperovitz, they had the transcripts from the Japanese conversations, they wanted to call it a day if they could spare the Emperor.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleWe had to, Japan DID NOT want to surrender and here are some stats to prove itQuote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
Mariana & Palau Islands Campaign - 9,500 Americans KIA; 63,000 Japanese KIA
Iwo Jima - nearly 7,000 Americans KIA; over 22,000 Japanese KIA
Okinawa - over 12,000 Americans KIA; over 110,000 Japanese KIA and maybe 42,000-150,000 civilians killed
The closer the US got to Honshu the more the Japanese threw at the US and the more fiercely they defended their land. In the end we dropped the bombs and it was the RIGHT THING TO DO. It saved more lives than it took.
The bombs saved lives....if we wanted to take Honshu and take the Emperor then they would never have given up and the fact Japan still has an Emperor still irks me but MacArthur (that cocksucker ruined us in Korea) thought he was a symbol of pride to the people of Japan and he apparently didn't want the Emperor to step down even though the US could have just wiped out the position altogether.
Douglas MacArthur was perhaps America's most dangerous general. I like Patton but he never got to be America's most dangerous general as #1 He was always on a tight leash and #2 He died shortly after WWII....but in the field of combat he was ALWAYS a winner....although he was an asshole (one of my family friends served under General Patton and I asked him about Pit and he said Patton was "a son of a bitch")
Japan being "about to surrender" after suffering so many casualties just for a couple of islands....come on Nameless you must admit that something drastic had to be done and a carpet bombing campaign would have just massacred thousands of people...the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki really limited the damage AND they made it so Japan was incapable of adding ships, weapons, tanks, etc to their forces.
Either way the bombs got dropped the war ended and Japan now flourishes with the help of Americans rebuilding that nation.