Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
The only reason Pac is up around welterweight is Oscar.
Oscar wanted to end his career on a high by beating the P4P no.1, the Mexicutioner. Pac didn't care about the weight disadvantage because of the filthy lucre on offer. Obviously it backfired on Oscar and a whole new load of lovely huge money options were opened up for Pac.
Pac would have needed around 4-5 fights below 140 to match what he earned against Hatton alone. And remember he weighed as low as 138 for Hatton, so i'm sure he could have done it. Although only a mental would have gone back to where the money wasn't.
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
The only reason Pac is up around welterweight is Oscar.
Oscar wanted to end his career on a high by beating the P4P no.1, the Mexicutioner. Pac didn't care about the weight disadvantage because of the filthy lucre on offer. Obviously it backfired on Oscar and a whole new load of lovely huge money options were opened up for Pac.
Pac would have needed around 4-5 fights below 140 to match what he earned against Hatton alone. And remember he weighed as low as 138 for Hatton, so i'm sure he could have done it. Although only a mental would have gone back to where the money wasn't.
True but its not just about money. Any fighter would rather have the names of p4p stars and future Hall of Famers like Oscar, Hatton, Cotto and Mayweather on their resume than talented but thus far completely historically insignificant fighters like Juan Diaz, Guzman, Funeka, Valero and Reyes.
Nobody outside of the hardcore boxing fan has ever heard of any of those guys whilst Hatton, Oscar, Mayweather and to a lesser extent Cotto are household names around much of the world, certainly to the casual sports fan.
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
The only reason Pac is up around welterweight is Oscar.
Oscar wanted to end his career on a high by beating the P4P no.1, the Mexicutioner. Pac didn't care about the weight disadvantage because of the filthy lucre on offer. Obviously it backfired on Oscar and a whole new load of lovely huge money options were opened up for Pac.
Pac would have needed around 4-5 fights below 140 to match what he earned against Hatton alone. And remember he weighed as low as 138 for Hatton, so i'm sure he could have done it. Although only a mental would have gone back to where the money wasn't.
True but its not just about money. Any fighter would rather have the names of p4p stars and future Hall of Famers like Oscar, Hatton, Cotto and Mayweather on their resume than talented but thus far completely historically insignificant fighters like Juan Diaz, Guzman, Funeka, Valero and Reyes.
Nobody outside of the hardcore boxing fan has ever heard of any of those guys whilst Hatton, Oscar, Mayweather and to a lesser extent Cotto are household names around much of the world, certainly to the casual sports fan.
99.9% is. ;D
Yes I guess the names are a bonus.
Obviously Pac wouldn't have become a world-wide star without his recent exploits in the higher weights. But he would have never initially gone there if he was not earning purses he only ever dreamed of in his feather/supfeather/lightweight days.
Look it's a no brainer. Fight Diaz/Valero for $2m or Hatton/Oscar for $12m? No fighter would give a fuck about the physical disadvantages to earn money like that.
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
I agree with everyone else, but i still think he could of had one more fight at Lightweight against a big name before he moved up, Joan Guzman or Edwin Valero, i'd rather of seen those fights other than ODLH, Ricky Hatton, but of course it doesn't make sense money wise.
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I agree with everyone else, but i still think he could of had one more fight at Lightweight against a big name before he moved up, Joan Guzman or Edwin Valero, i'd rather of seen those fights other than ODLH, Ricky Hatton, but of course it doesn't make sense money wise.
Why??
People were massively hyped up for the Hatton fight it was huge, one of the biggest fights involving a British fighter of all time!
How was him facing Hatton not as exciting or challenging as facing Guzman or Valero?
What would beating Guzman or Valero do for Manny's career more than beating a multiple world champ like Oscar or Hatton?
Just leaving money out of it, and imagine you were Pacquaio.
If you could pick your last three fights and win them who would you want on your record?
My guess is you will say Valero, Guzman and Funeka, but everyone living in the real world would rather have wins over De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto on their record.
It's obviously more than just money. Yes he will make a fortune for fighting Mayweather but whose name would you most like to have on your record with a W next to it? Mayweather, or anyone else from featherweight to lightweight?
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
The original question was.... why don't fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
They do not clean out their divisions, or do not have to, if they have the ability to pursue a bigger game, a greater exploit in higher weight classes. Likewise, if the move will serve to be a financially rewarding endeavor and is a potential to add feathers on their caps.
The fighters who are cleaning out their divisions are mostly the one's that are willing to do so for their convenience. It is mostly but not exclusive to, their inability talent wise, or their lack of confidence for such a move anywhere north or south of their best weight class.
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I agree with everyone else, but i still think he could of had one more fight at Lightweight against a big name before he moved up, Joan Guzman or Edwin Valero, i'd rather of seen those fights other than ODLH, Ricky Hatton, but of course it doesn't make sense money wise.
Why??
People were massively hyped up for the Hatton fight it was huge, one of the biggest fights involving a British fighter of all time!
How was him facing Hatton not as exciting or challenging as facing Guzman or Valero?
What would beating Guzman or Valero do for Manny's career more than beating a multiple world champ like Oscar or Hatton?
Just leaving money out of it, and imagine you were Pacquaio.
If you could pick your last three fights and win them who would you want on your record?
My guess is you will say Valero, Guzman and Funeka, but everyone living in the real world would rather have wins over De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto on their record.
It's obviously more than just money. Yes he will make a fortune for fighting Mayweather but whose name would you most like to have on your record with a W next to it? Mayweather, or anyone else from featherweight to lightweight?
Bilbo its just my opinion that it would of been more exciting, for me to have seen those fights. I never said he made the wrong choice in moving up where did i say that ?
But he did skip the division fighting a weak belt holder in David Diaz, and at that time there was strong rumors about a Edwin Valero vs Manny Pacquiao fight happening.
And everyone on this forum was hyped to see that, because it involved two very exciting fighters especially Edwin Valero who can punch like a mule. As for Joan Guzman yes i agree he's not well known, but as i said i never criticized Manny Pacquiao for not fighting him.
Because Joan Guzman was a horrible style match up for him, and it was a lose/lose situation for Manny Pacquiao, again im not criticizing Manny Pacquiao for not taking any of these fights, im just saying i would of loved to have seen them before he moved up.
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Boxing is a different animal from what it was 2 generations and more ago. Sports for that matter has changed completely. In off seasons elite athletes had to take 9 to 5s to make ends meet, boxing was purely something they did because they loved it and it helped pay the bills. Now it can provide for a family several times over. The incentive to fight the best has been supplanted by the desire to fight the best at the most money possible. Oscar De La Hoya wouldn't have been able to handpick opponents back in the 60s like he did. Because De-La-Hoyan type paydays didn't exist for opponents. But this is a natural progression for boxing. The money is filtering through to the actual people doing the work rather than just the guys who get 2 names slapped on a contract. If your profession is to get punched in the face, why not do it for the most money possible? Why would you deprive yourself of that new ivory back scratcher? If I paid you a million dollars a year to sit in a cubicle and press a button once every 3 seconds, would you turn it down? If not, then why begrudge a fighter for fighting for the most possible money? It's not as if fans aren't getting anything like what they want. And actually, when you judge by PPV buys and TV ratings, it's only the minority who aren't. Cleaning out divisions is nice, but not necessary. I'd say Floyd Mayweather proved a lot more by beating Oscar De La Hoya than Kostya Tzsyu. What could Manny Pacquiao have done more significant at 135 and below than the Cotto fight?
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I agree with everyone else, but i still think he could of had one more fight at Lightweight against a big name before he moved up, Joan Guzman or Edwin Valero, i'd rather of seen those fights other than ODLH, Ricky Hatton, but of course it doesn't make sense money wise.
Why??
People were massively hyped up for the Hatton fight it was huge, one of the biggest fights involving a British fighter of all time!
How was him facing Hatton not as exciting or challenging as facing Guzman or Valero?
What would beating Guzman or Valero do for Manny's career more than beating a multiple world champ like Oscar or Hatton?
Just leaving money out of it, and imagine you were Pacquaio.
If you could pick your last three fights and win them who would you want on your record?
My guess is you will say Valero, Guzman and Funeka, but everyone living in the real world would rather have wins over De La Hoya, Hatton and Cotto on their record.
It's obviously more than just money. Yes he will make a fortune for fighting Mayweather but whose name would you most like to have on your record with a W next to it? Mayweather, or anyone else from featherweight to lightweight?
Bilbo its just my opinion that it would of been more exciting, for me to have seen those fights. I never said he made the wrong choice in moving up where did i say that ?
But he did skip the division fighting a weak belt holder in David Diaz, and at that time there was strong rumors about a Edwin Valero vs Manny Pacquiao fight happening.
And everyone on this forum was hyped to see that, because it involved two very exciting fighters especially Edwin Valero who can punch like a mule. As for Joan Guzman yes i agree he's not well known, but as i said i never criticized Manny Pacquiao for not fighting him.
Because Joan Guzman was a horrible style match up for him, and it was a lose/lose situation for Manny Pacquiao, again im not criticizing Manny Pacquiao for not taking any of these fights, im just saying i would of loved to have seen them before he moved up.
He didn't skip any division, he fought Oscar for $20 million. When you're offered a fight like that you're not going to fanny around taking fights for relative peanuts against people the public haven't heard of. He knew if he beat Oscar he was going to make a mint so he took the fight. Then a guy he'd already beaten twice became the top lightweight, so what's the point in going back to 135 to fight for buttons? What would it prove, especially when he's now fighting two divisions up and knocking out world class welters?
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Ray Robinson and Armstrong didn't clean out the lightweight division before they moved on to welterweight. Were they ducking fighters or that they didn't give a shit about it? Behind the heavyweight division, welterweight is where the money and glory is in the lower weight classes.
And seriously who the hell would turn down 20 million dollar paydays to fight Guzman, Valero, Funeka, for 2 million instead of fighting De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Mayweather?
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Cleaning out divisions has lost it's luster because more often than not there are 1-2 of the straps with paper champs that can't bring in money.
Furthermore anyone that says that getting the best fights against big names is not about money they are deluding themselves. PAC himself says "I'm just doing my job" instead of "I only fight the best". This is not a knock on Pacquiao it's just the situation, it's their JOB, at the end of the day who wants to get paid less?
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Cleaning out divisions has lost it's luster because more often than not there are 1-2 of the straps with paper champs that can't bring in money.
Furthermore anyone that says that getting the best fights against big names is not about money they are deluding themselves. PAC himself says "I'm just doing my job" instead of "I only fight the best". This is not a knock on Pacquiao it's just the situation, it's their JOB, at the end of the day who wants to get paid less?
100% agree.. :)
Fortunately though, and by no coincidence, following the money and big names has led him to the best fighter in the business...
Re: Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?
I'm still trying to figure out where it written that a fighter has to clean out a division. I just wanna see good fights. If staying in one division means good fights great. If it moving up means better fights great. Doesn't matter to me. I just want interesting match ups and good fights.
Also we meaning the fans have to understand this is business for these guys. This is how they make there living. There gonna go where the money.
