Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
I really like Thomas Hauser, I've got a couple of his books but this article is a strange one. It starts off with Manny's personal trainer talking about what a unique athlete he isand how he's defying the ageing process. Go and google "Roger Clemens work ethic/special athlete" or "Barry Bonds age-defyingunique" and you'll get a million arse-kissing articles written by Pulitzer-prize winning American sports journalists before steroid-using exposure of Clemens/Bonds and then how-could-we-all-have-been-such-fools articles by the same writers excerpting their previous articles to show how they'd been fooled. Hauser is well aware of this, it's almost like he's repeating the cliche to let us know how he really feels.
Then you've got a whole load of history of steroids in boxing and the conclusion that, yes, it's probably quite widespread in boxing today and testing is a joke.
Then more about how dedicated Manny is in the gym, (so dedicated he spends half his time making films and records, campaining for election etc.) So far it's doing the cliche thing. It's almost like he's taking the piss out of Manny's steroid-free claims for his fellow sports journalists/whoever else is in on the joke.
The he changes tack, eventually echoes Al Bernstein making a false claim about when Mayweather started asking for random testing and uses this "fact" to try and make the case that Floyd killed the fight. Then he has a go at Oscar.
Definitely not a fair and balanced article and he's blamed Mayweather/GBP and exonerated Manny as much as he can while still leaving himself a little plenty-of-steroids-in-boxing and I-was-telling-you-he-was-juicing-in-a-knowing-way wiggle room to change his tune in future if Manny gets caught with a needle in his arse. You can't really blame these guys though. Manny is their biggest story and if he is caught or even badly damaged by speculation it damages boxing really badly.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.
Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.
The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...
To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.
To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...
But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?
Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...
I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.
Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.
The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...
To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.
To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...
But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?
Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...
I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.
Yeah, that whole bandwagon trip of "Mayweather didn't want the fight" is just ignorant and blind. If Mayweather didn't want the fight he wouldn't have agreed to the $10 million/lb. penalty. And he wouldn't have went to mediation about the random testing and even conceding to Pac a 14 day window. Pac's team called the fight off and signed for another fight. If Pac didn't want to do the testing thats fine. I will not accuse him of ducking anything. But lets not make it out to be Mayweather ducking the fight. They just couldn't agree.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zilla
I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.
If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.
And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.
One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...
Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.
I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??
If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zilla
I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.
If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.
And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.
One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...
Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch
those fights with
those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.
I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??
If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.
You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
The fights off...good. Screw both of them. The world doesn't revolve around floyd, no matter how much his haters with thier silly-ness try to keep him up there. Pac is fighting clottey. Where's the whole section dedicated to that. A fight that is happening. Man you guys hate (or really love) the guy this damn much ?? No wonder he's so rich. Why call this sport boxing. Just call it the ridiculous race to beat floyd any way we can, with anyone we can. Nevermind boxing is shorter.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zilla
I have to take issue with the notion that Mayweather didn't want the fight. I think any boxer who doesn't want a fight simply manages not to say anything about it or how he wants to fight some other opponent first. The fact they both entered into negotiations says to me they wanted the fight, but simply couldn't agree to terms. How would Mayweather know that Manny wouldn't agree to testing? And why would he make concessions so far as when testing would occur and who would be conducting it? Floyd could have simply stayed retired or fight any number of people to earn a nice amount of cash if he had no desire to fight Pacquiao.
If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.
And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.
One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...
Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch
those fights with
those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.
I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??
If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.
You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.
No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.
To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing. I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.
So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?
Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
If the article makes Golden Boy look stupid - well then I think that says more about Golden Boy than it does the author. I mean - they've flip flopped, contradicted themselves, and generally made an arse of things. Now, not to say that Pac is totally blameless here, because I can see he is at fault in areas too. The article is 70 per cent blaming Golden Boy/Maweather and I pretty much agree with that angle.
And, on the issue of Mayweather not being to blame for the cancellation.
One poster has already stated (Zbolt I think)...
Right now this fight could be scheduled under the same rules that all other big fights have been scheduled for, for the last 10 or so years, and all of us fans on this forum have been happy to watch those fights with those rules - but now all of a sudden we're wondering who'd on drugs, who's not on drugs. There is only one man to blame for that.
I think that there are a lot of people on here getting very high and mighty about how Floyd is on a crusade to clean up boxing:rolleyes: PED's have been around in boxing for years (RJJ/Toney/Shane) and yet Floyd only thought to ask for Olympic-style drug testing before he fights Manny Pacquiao??
If Floyd really gives a damn about the sport of boxing's honesty and integrity then kudos to Floyd but I don't buy that bullshit at all.
You're right, since PEDs have been used successfully in the past, we should continue to use them. And yes that is what you are saying.
No what I'm saying is that PED's have been around boxing for a long time - I just find it interesting that Floyd Mayweather jr all of a sudden wants to singlehandedly clean up the entire sport right before he's about to face a very live, very dangerous opponent.
To be honest, this whole article/issue has really rocked my belief in boxing.
I mean, it seems like they are all in on this shit... It's depressing.
So ask yourself this Killersheep - does Floyd Mayweather Jr, really want to make a stand, clean up the sport and rid it of PEDs forever? Or did he see a very live, very dangerous opponent in front of him and think you know what, I'm going to fuck with this guy and see if I can't avoid fighting him?
Now, I see the fight as a pick em anyway - that's how highly I rate Floyd. But I can see how the inference could be drawn from Hauser that Floyd didn't really want the fight and I'm sure you can too.
We don't really know who's on shit, because the testing is ineffective.
I don't think Floyd is ducking at all, if he was he could of simply demanded a ridiculous purse split, done and done. At the end of the day Mayweather was still sitting at the table, while Pacquiao and his team signed against Clottey, Pacquiao's team were the ones that the mediator corrected for making false claims, Pacquiao's team were the one's making excuses to not take the tests. If Pacquiao really wanted the fight he could have taken the blood tests with 14 days remaining before the fight to recover (from something that does not need recovery).
What you are implying here is that Mayweather KNEW that Pacquiao would refuse the tests is that correct?
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.
The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.
I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.
The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.
I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...
But you have bias and that's speculation, when has Mayweather EVER started negotiations and not gone through with them? If he's ducking fighters, which admittedly there are some fighters out there he did duck, he simply didn't entertain the offers. Why make this big to-do at all? It would be a waste of money and time.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.
The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.
I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...
But you have bias and that's speculation, when has Mayweather EVER started negotiations and not gone through with them? If he's ducking fighters, which admittedly there are some fighters out there he did duck, he simply didn't entertain the offers. Why make this big to-do at all? It would be a waste of money and time.
coz floyd was forced to entertain the pacquiao fight due to fans/promoters demands
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zbolt
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greig
Yeah I think he had a fair idea that Pacquiao wouldn't want to do it, and I think that's why he did it.
The purse split point you make - I agree, but it's easy to see through. Those numbers always come out and the people can see who was being ridiculous.
I think that at the end of the day, Floyd got what he wanted - he doesn't have to fight Pacquiao, and because of the way he went about it only half the world thinks he ducked him, the other half think Pac is on PED's. Whereas the whole world would have knew he ducked him if he had demanded 70 per cent of the pot...
But you have bias and that's speculation, when has Mayweather EVER started negotiations and not gone through with them? If he's ducking fighters, which admittedly there are some fighters out there he did duck, he simply didn't entertain the offers. Why make this big to-do at all? It would be a waste of money and time.
coz floyd was forced to entertain the pacquiao fight due to fans/promoters demands
To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?
to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erik_corrales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?
to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.
That's conspiracy theory what you're saying right there.
Re: The definitive Mayweather/Pac article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erik_corrales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
To what end? Tell me what Mayweather would gain from that?
to save the reputation(selling point?) he has left. he has some crusaders now doesn't he? hell, he even got some pactards to switch to the other side. very effective in my opinion.
That's conspiracy theory what you're saying right there.
and your point is? come on, this is boxing, the business.
all i'm saying is that's how it appears to be right now.
