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It would be hard to argue with another boxing fan who's opinion was that PACMAN was the best fighter of all time.
His rise from Flyweight up to dominate a really big strong WW is amazing , he gives it all , works tirelessly , is just a pleasure to watch him box.
Who knows if PBF beats Manny or vice versa, the only thing that's clearly evident is that Manny Pacquiao has dominated elite level fighters in a way that has not been seen in a generation. In fights were he has been matched against bigger men he has pressed the action and always fought forcing the action, clearly not looking to just outpoint his competition. Whether you're Manny fan or not you have to appreciate what he brings to the table, he is truly a special fighter. As far a legacy goes I believe him to be an ATG, not necessarily the "All Time Greatest" but certainly an "All Time Great", imo...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
I agree Pacquiao is top, but with all the credentials he gets lately it makes me wonder..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
what if Floyd beats Shane and then beats him? will Floyd's resume be crazy too? Or will it be Floyd picking on smaller fighters?
I just want your opinion on where you think they'll be ranked given if they beat each other, like you gave your opinion how Pacquiao will look if he beats Floyd. How will Floyd look if he beats Shane and Pacquiao?
It would be hard to say Floyd is picking on smaller fighters because Manny has been in with the bigger guys and look what he has done.....I mean Clottey yes is slow but he is a big strong ww who has a great chin and good punching power who has never up until Sat been in a one sided bout...
Now if Manny had never been above LW and Floyd fought him as a WW then it would be a bit unfair because Manny would be in with a guy who is used to big men..
If that makes sense
If Floyd beats Manny I dont think he will receive as much credit for two reasons:
1 - Floyd has tarnished his legacy already by not fighting the best or who the fans/writers think are the best fighters at a given weight class. I dont know how many times I have read articles or heard on forums that Floyd is afraid to fight Mosley (at lower weights), margarito, cotto etc. You have never heard about Pac being afraid to fight anyone. I mean the guy fought JMM, Morales, and Barerra it seemed one after another......
2 - Pacquaio doesnt have a careful style, he is a brawler. He wants to mix it up. Floyd is very careful at times and can stink the joint out. If Floyd has someone hurt he will sometimes back off to play it safe, manny wont. Fans love pac's style and he gets extra credit for this.
Whether these points are true or not is irrelevant, but they are the reason Floyd doesnt get the respect he thinks he deserves.
Off the top of my head I can think of at least 10 fighters, in divisions Pac has fought, that were MUCH better: I have limited this list to just fighters I have seen live or on tape which eliminates older all time greats such as Leonard, Greb, Gans, Walker, Ross, Attell,etc. and any fighter middleweight or above. There are also others like Arguello, Whitaker, Chavez, Ortiz who I feel were better, but don't rank as high as these 10.
Sugar Ray Robinson
Aaron Pryor
Sugar Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
Joe Brown
Sandy Saddler
Willie Pep
Henry Armstrong
Eder Jofre
Let's not forget that all of those who say that Floyd has ducked some tough fighters, Manny has ducked a few also like:Shane, Cassamayor, Campbell and Guzman.
Much better head to head in your opinion? or Much better achievement?Quote:
Originally Posted by djcione
Cause I cant imagine Aaron Pryor having a better career than Pacquiao.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I don't know where you read an article saying Floyd was afraid of fighting Mosley at lower weights. Floyd was the first to try to get a fight with Mosley in 2003 I believe and Mosley declined the fight. I don't know if Shane was afraid of Floyd or just didn't want the fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_langMuch better head to head in your opinion? or Much better achievement?Quote:
Originally Posted by djcione
Cause I cant imagine Aaron Pryor having a better career than Pacquiao.
much better head to head
OK lets see:
ODH, old and weight drained.
Hatton, already KO'd by Floyd.
Cotto, beat to death over a long fight with Margarito. What was left of Cotto was no match for Pacquiao. Impressive win a year ago? Yes. Impressive win after Margarito? No.
Clotto, lost to Cotto.
What more needs to be said? Pac is nothing until he beats Floyd.
First of all, welcome to the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by RossCA
Secondly, you waited almost two years from when you joined to make this post?
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by RossCA
That's the oldest template in the book. That is applicable to ALL Fighters.
FLoyd -
Castillo - Lost the 1st fight
Corrales - Mentally not prepared. He needed more time to recover from his bout againts his wife.
Baldomir - A fuckin Journeyman. Gor Lucky with Judah
Judah - A 4 round fighter
Hatton - Looks average againts Collaso. Fight should have been @140
Yaddi Yaddi
Mosley -
Dela Hoya - lost the 2nd fight
Mayorga - Looks mediocre before the left hook, Mayorga wa shot
Vargas - Vargas was shot to pieced before this fight took place
Yaddi Yaddi
Hopkins
DLH - Too Small
Trinidad - A Welterweight
Winky - Winky should have won
Yaddi Yaddi
etc etc etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHFirst of all, welcome to the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by RossCA
Secondly, you waited almost two years from when you joined to make this post?
I didnt realize that that was his 1st post. lol
Unbelievable. I see the same old yells of 'PACMAN'S' greatness are still audible around here.
With a mediocre recent showing and questionable methods, I'd wait before pinning him as an ATG. the only thing that Aaron Pryor and Pacquiao's careers have in common at this point in time is the amount of scrutiny they've recieved over the possibility of utilizing illegal substances.
That being said though, I highly doubt Pryor would've declined a fight with Arguello over a couple blood-tests aimed at fair-play... then go into his next fight and throw more punches than some pressure-fighters... landing at a minuscule percentage (while spin-doctors/commentators billow on about how 'great' he is).
I realize I'll get flamed for this so while I'm at it I'll also mention that I give him no credit for the Cotto win either. I believe a win over Cotto two years earlier and 2lbs heavier, with his old team, prior to the Margarito fight would've been impressive. The recent showing was just a ploy to squeeze the last of the juice from Cotto's following. God, for Cotto's sake I hope Pac isn't a juicer. Margacheato (...most probably...) cheated the guy into early retirement, Pac stomped out what was left. Big whoop.
Go ahead and say I'll never appreciate Pac's "greatness". The fact is, he doesn't even have to beat Mayweather for me to call him great; he just has to be honest. If he would've just agreed to the tests in December/January, we'd know he's not a sham... I don't know that I'd be his biggest fan (biggest Pactard?), but I would definitely be a supporter - although regardless, I'd bite my tongue before EVER mentioning his name in the same breath as Robinson or Ali (most definitely not under current circumstances).
Regardless of what naysayers would think about PAC. PAC was able to manage to be involved in a fight which is regarded as the 3rd most attended fight in the US for the past 50 yrs. I'd say most of these people are PACFANS:)
Yea i have to say your boy has really made me a fan, as i said i actually disliked him at first. Because he beat two of my favorite fighters, but now i realize there's no shame in that considering how great Manny Pacquiao is. What he's done is unbelievable he's like the modern day version of Henry Armstrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik