Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
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Originally Posted by
Tam Seddon
I think Edison Miranda got a lot of hype before and after his first loss to Abraham, ever since then he was made to look ordinary.
Definatly Jeff Lacy falls into this section
if Khan is saved due to winning a title, Lacy should get the same treatment he won the IBF Super Middleweight title, hence is exempt
I agree Lacy made it all the way to a superfight.
I don't think Edison counts either, he gave Artur Abraham a hell of a first fight and has since fought in several world title bouts, although losing them all.
I'm talking here about young prospects, seen as big talents, and maybe the future of their divisions on the way up, but who fall short before even challening for the top, i.e losing to a journeyman like Escalante, Duddy and Lee, or losing the first time they step up to fringe world level like Julio did against Quintana.
Miranda must have fought in at least 5 world title fights, he's not what I'm talking about.
Julio never even got there, he fits the bill perfectly.
Anyway my question was out of the current prospects who won't make it to world level.
Some prospects I can think of, tell me if you think they will succeed or not.
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Erislandry Lara
Odlanier Solis
Daniel Jacobs
Shawn Porter
Fernando Gurrero
Matt Korobov
Antony Peterson ( I think it was Lamont who fought Bradley? That means he fought for the top at least and got there despite losing)
Those are a few of the talents I can think of. So who do we think will make it and won't?
I consider Gamboa to have just about arrived now, holding an interim title or whatever so he's moved beyond the kind of prospects I'm talking about
Lara will be a P4P mainstay some day.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
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Originally Posted by
amat
Aaron Williams, got KO'd by the Colombian then got robbed in Germany and no one seems to care anymore. Sad because I thought he was a future heavyweight hopeful. Oh well.
Never even heard of him! I guess Dominic Guinn would fit the bill if this question was asked 3 or 4 years ago.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
I think Quintana only became really talked about after the Julio win. I thought he had a chance to beat Cotto really, a decent chance actually.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Wasn't Carlos Quintana a pretty hyped prospect?
Not really, he was the underdog against Joel Julio I think, plus he's been a world champ and has fought some of the elite welterweights in the world in Cotto, Williams and Berto.
I don't think he qualifies for someone who fell short, he made it to the top, just wasn't good enough to win at that level.
Julio never got to the top.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
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Originally Posted by
OumaFan
I think Quintana only became really talked about after the Julio win. I thought he had a chance to beat Cotto really, a decent chance actually.
Not like 4 rounds mean very much, but I thought he was doing very well against Cotto until the last round.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
if Khan is saved due to winning a title, Lacy should get the same treatment he won the IBF Super Middleweight title, hence is exempt
I agree Lacy made it all the way to a superfight.
I don't think Edison counts either, he gave Artur Abraham a hell of a first fight and has since fought in several world title bouts, although losing them all.
I'm talking here about young prospects, seen as big talents, and maybe the future of their divisions on the way up, but who fall short before even challening for the top, i.e losing to a journeyman like Escalante, Duddy and Lee, or losing the first time they step up to fringe world level like Julio did against Quintana.
Miranda must have fought in at least 5 world title fights, he's not what I'm talking about.
Julio never even got there, he fits the bill perfectly.
Anyway my question was out of the current prospects who won't make it to world level.
Some prospects I can think of, tell me if you think they will succeed or not.
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Erislandry Lara
Odlanier Solis
Daniel Jacobs
Shawn Porter
Fernando Gurrero
Matt Korobov
Antony Peterson ( I think it was Lamont who fought Bradley? That means he fought for the top at least and got there despite losing)
Those are a few of the talents I can think of. So who do we think will make it and won't?
I consider Gamboa to have just about arrived now, holding an interim title or whatever so he's moved beyond the kind of prospects I'm talking about
Lara will be a P4P mainstay some day.
That's interesting, he's one of those I'm least sold on of that bunch. Doesn't have anything special imo. I can see him being another Julio.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
Why do you give a pass to Ortiz but not Escalante?
Ortiz has come back more timid, Escalante has come back with more fire.
As for your list
Guillermo Rigondeaux - I believe this guys career gets killed by poor management
Erislandry Lara - I think this guy has all the skill he needs to be successful, but he needs more 'get up' fights to inspire him to perform better
Odlanier Solis - Hard to imagine the risk/reward equation will work for him to get title fights, I think he remains in obscurity while living the American dream/James Toney diet plan
Daniel Jacobs - I like Jacobs he fights often, I do think he is one that will get caught getting wild one of these days and end up out cold.
/Shawn Porter - Kind of a Ward/Dirrell situation with these two
\Fernando Gurrero - I have faith the both do well at a higher level
Matt Korobov - I think a mover will absolutely take him to school, I have some real doubts about him. I picture him being matched up like Angulo is nowadays.
Antony Peterson - I don't think he's ever going to step up, he was supposed to fight Humberto Soto, but that's off. I think he's another that will have wasted all that publicity he's had over the last 5 years.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I agree Lacy made it all the way to a superfight.
I don't think Edison counts either, he gave Artur Abraham a hell of a first fight and has since fought in several world title bouts, although losing them all.
I'm talking here about young prospects, seen as big talents, and maybe the future of their divisions on the way up, but who fall short before even challening for the top, i.e losing to a journeyman like Escalante, Duddy and Lee, or losing the first time they step up to fringe world level like Julio did against Quintana.
Miranda must have fought in at least 5 world title fights, he's not what I'm talking about.
Julio never even got there, he fits the bill perfectly.
Anyway my question was out of the current prospects who won't make it to world level.
Some prospects I can think of, tell me if you think they will succeed or not.
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Erislandry Lara
Odlanier Solis
Daniel Jacobs
Shawn Porter
Fernando Gurrero
Matt Korobov
Antony Peterson ( I think it was Lamont who fought Bradley? That means he fought for the top at least and got there despite losing)
Those are a few of the talents I can think of. So who do we think will make it and won't?
I consider Gamboa to have just about arrived now, holding an interim title or whatever so he's moved beyond the kind of prospects I'm talking about
Lara will be a P4P mainstay some day.
That's interesting, he's one of those I'm least sold on of that bunch. Doesn't have anything special imo. I can see him being another Julio.
Did you see the Brewer fight? I thought given his inexperience as a pro that that was a very impressive performance. I've been big on Lara since I saw his 3rd or 4th fight. He doesn't have a ton of power, but he's fast, accurate, and good defensively. I think he'll be the best out of the bunch you listed.
I haven't seen all the fighters you listed, but I'm far from sold on Porter. Jacobs is a good fighter, but Ishe Smith could have beaten him if he started fighting before the 5th round. Rigondeaux I just think is too old. He's looked good so far though. I've never been all that big on Peterson, but he's a solid fighter with no glaring weaknesses.
That's my opinion on the guys I've seen enough of to have an opinion on.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
There has been no faster rising and falling star in recent times than Derrick Wilson, came in with a huge upset over Huerta, then overlooked his next opponent because of record and lost a decision he really should have won quite easily, then he was robbed in his last fight (showing he is no longer the valued commodity)
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
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Originally Posted by
killersheep
Why do you give a pass to Ortiz but not Escalante?
Ortiz has come back more timid, Escalante has come back with more fire.
As for your list
Guillermo Rigondeaux - I believe this guys career gets killed by poor management
Erislandry Lara - I think this guy has all the skill he needs to be successful, but he needs more 'get up' fights to inspire him to perform better
Odlanier Solis - Hard to imagine the risk/reward equation will work for him to get title fights, I think he remains in obscurity while living the American dream/James Toney diet plan
Daniel Jacobs - I like Jacobs he fights often, I do think he is one that will get caught getting wild one of these days and end up out cold.
/Shawn Porter - Kind of a Ward/Dirrell situation with these two
\Fernando Gurrero - I have faith the both do well at a higher level
Matt Korobov - I think a mover will absolutely take him to school, I have some real doubts about him. I picture him being matched up like Angulo is nowadays.
Antony Peterson - I don't think he's ever going to step up, he was supposed to fight Humberto Soto, but that's off. I think he's another that will have wasted all that publicity he's had over the last 5 years.
Cool assessment Killer. I guess I give Victor a pass because he's on HBO and still very much in the limelight, whereas Escalante is building his career on the quiet, but you could be right. But Escanlante was beaten up by a guy who went on to lose 6 of his last 7, and at a low level.
I can't see Maidana being that weak, and I do think Victor is world class offensively. But he may very well fail to make the cut.
Of those names the one I like the most is Odlanier Solis. I think being in the same division as the Klitshko's with no option of moving to another weight class unlike those below will likely scupper his title ambitions however.
He's a talent though, albiet a lardy one.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
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Originally Posted by
CFH
Lara will be a P4P mainstay some day.
That's interesting, he's one of those I'm least sold on of that bunch. Doesn't have anything special imo. I can see him being another Julio.
Did you see the Brewer fight? I thought given his inexperience as a pro that that was a very impressive performance. I've been big on Lara since I saw his 3rd or 4th fight. He doesn't have a ton of power, but he's fast, accurate, and good defensively. I think he'll be the best out of the bunch you listed.
I haven't seen all the fighters you listed, but I'm far from sold on Porter. Jacobs is a good fighter, but Ishe Smith could have beaten him if he started fighting before the 5th round. Rigondeaux I just think is too old. He's looked good so far though. I've never been all that big on Peterson, but he's a solid fighter with no glaring weaknesses.
That's my opinion on the guys I've seen enough of to have an opinion on.
Good points Josh, I don't know Lara doesn't do it for me. He didn't look too good last time out imo going 10 rounds with Danny Perez. I mean ok, he's never been stopped, but even Jesse Brinkley beat him. And going 12 rounds with a 26-11 almost 40 year old journeyman in Brewer doesn't equal future p4p star to me either.
If he was going to be great I'd expect him to dazzle and destroy guys like this not go the full distance with them.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
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Originally Posted by
Bilbo
That's interesting, he's one of those I'm least sold on of that bunch. Doesn't have anything special imo. I can see him being another Julio.
Did you see the Brewer fight? I thought given his inexperience as a pro that that was a very impressive performance. I've been big on Lara since I saw his 3rd or 4th fight. He doesn't have a ton of power, but he's fast, accurate, and good defensively. I think he'll be the best out of the bunch you listed.
I haven't seen all the fighters you listed, but I'm far from sold on Porter. Jacobs is a good fighter, but Ishe Smith could have beaten him if he started fighting before the 5th round. Rigondeaux I just think is too old. He's looked good so far though. I've never been all that big on Peterson, but he's a solid fighter with no glaring weaknesses.
That's my opinion on the guys I've seen enough of to have an opinion on.
Good points Josh, I don't know Lara doesn't do it for me. He didn't look too good last time out imo going 10 rounds with Danny Perez. I mean ok, he's never been stopped, but even Jesse Brinkley beat him. And going 12 rounds with a 26-11 almost 40 year old journeyman in Brewer doesn't equal future p4p star to me either.
If he was going to be great I'd expect him to dazzle and destroy guys like this not go the full distance with them.
I didn't see the Perez fight, so I can't really comment on that. I just know I was very impressed with his performance against Brewer. He just beat the dog shit out of a veteran fighter and made it look easy and it was only his 10th fight. Regarding him going the distance with fighters, he's just not much of a puncher. He's accurate and fast, but he doesn't really seem to sit down on his shots, probably because that wouldn't play to his advantages.
As for Jessie Brinkley, I actually think he's somewhat underrated as a fighter because of his Contender Association. He's got some solid wins over decent opposition. He's never going to be much more than a good journeyman, but I think he's a bit better than people perceive him to be.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Did you see the Brewer fight? I thought given his inexperience as a pro that that was a very impressive performance. I've been big on Lara since I saw his 3rd or 4th fight. He doesn't have a ton of power, but he's fast, accurate, and good defensively. I think he'll be the best out of the bunch you listed.
I haven't seen all the fighters you listed, but I'm far from sold on Porter. Jacobs is a good fighter, but Ishe Smith could have beaten him if he started fighting before the 5th round. Rigondeaux I just think is too old. He's looked good so far though. I've never been all that big on Peterson, but he's a solid fighter with no glaring weaknesses.
That's my opinion on the guys I've seen enough of to have an opinion on.
Good points Josh, I don't know Lara doesn't do it for me. He didn't look too good last time out imo going 10 rounds with Danny Perez. I mean ok, he's never been stopped, but even Jesse Brinkley beat him. And going 12 rounds with a 26-11 almost 40 year old journeyman in Brewer doesn't equal future p4p star to me either.
If he was going to be great I'd expect him to dazzle and destroy guys like this not go the full distance with them.
I didn't see the Perez fight, so I can't really comment on that. I just know I was very impressed with his performance against Brewer. He just beat the dog shit out of a veteran fighter and made it look easy and it was only his 10th fight. Regarding him going the distance with fighters, he's just not much of a puncher. He's accurate and fast, but he doesn't really seem to sit down on his shots, probably because that wouldn't play to his advantages.
As for Jessie Brinkley, I actually think he's somewhat underrated as a fighter because of his Contender Association. He's got some solid wins over decent opposition. He's never going to be much more than a good journeyman, but I think he's a bit better than people perceive him to be.
I thought Landra looked pretty poor against Perez, to me he doesn't look ready to step up to world class just yet.
I mean he's probably capable of beating a lot of the top guys, the Latimore's and Sechew Powells of the division, but I can't see him troubling a Paul Williams or a Martinez.
That said, he has only had a handful of fights so maybe too early to judge.
Re: Recent superstars to be who went bust
Maybe my mind is fuzzy but Escalante was winning every second of that Pastrana lose up until a freakish flukish shot out of no where.Stuff of highlight reels when "lucky punch" is brought up.Certainly not beaten up.Hes done nothing but win since and while not scintillating in any one category I'm not sure hes on the scrapheap as a bust just yet.
Bredis Prescott ? Went from some unknown import to crusher of dreams with high profile KO of Khan and was talked about as if he was the next coming of a poor mans Hearns.Made news reels for getting bitten by Toledo like some victim in a George Romero horror flick and then losses next two...poof...gone.
Agbeko?Never saw him as a superstar..what you saw is what you got but quite the turn around from major win,surprising boxing show vs Darchinyan to foty candidate lose to prospect Yohnny Perez.Hope he bounces back but 15 minutes may very well have passed him by???
Hatton .....................................:peeker:
Berto.....tick,tick,tick ;D
