This ^Quote:
Originally Posted by JJson
Oh, and it would be "could've," which is a contraction of the words "could" and "have," not "could of."
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This ^Quote:
Originally Posted by JJson
Oh, and it would be "could've," which is a contraction of the words "could" and "have," not "could of."
Sort of narrows us down a great deal dont you think?It is a discussion board for well......boxing and all things there in ?Off course we'll never know what would have happened but sort of stamps Mayweathers place as hes in the all time discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJson
Excuse me for a second but i picked Floyd Mayweather Jr to win, im also a big fan of Floyd Mayweather Jr. This thread is purely for discussion, not to discredit Floyd Mayweather Jr in anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJson
In the main I agree with that, I think all of those COULD have beaten Mayweather (with the exception of Oscar at 135 as his opp was horrible because he was generally horribly drained).Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
But, tbh the only ones I think would, would be the 3 at 147 and only with Hearns would I be confident. Contrary to current wisdom, SRR could struggle with guys who could match him for speed & skill, and whilst I favour Ray to win, it would be marginal. Leonard I think might have had the same difficulties he had with Benitez at times, and over 12 rounds, I wouldn't be surprised if Floyd pulled out a narrow win. I think Hearns is all wrong for Floyd, but even then I wouldn't count him out.
He would have been competitive with all these guys, and I suspect most of them would have been with him.
They are ATGs, but Mayweather may conceivably end up a greater all time player then either of them in multiple weight classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I just feel Mayweather's style is all wrong for these guys. Duran would be frustrated by Floyd's movement, and when he did catch Floyd, this is a much better defensive fighter than Leonard, and I think it would tell.
The problem Whitaker would have is that his defense was largely based on reflexes and ingenuity, but I truly believe Floyd is too fast and accurate and adaptive with his punches for that type of defensive strategy. I think Whitaker being a fast southpaw with amazing skill would cause Mayweather some problems, but Floyd would keep his hands up, and catch Whitaker's punches off his gloves, then gradually integrate more and more offensive as the fight progresses similar to how he fought Judah, but I think Judah's speed and power were one tier above Pernell's.
I think Mayweather-Duran would be an incredibly tough fight because Floyd doesn't ride the bicycle like Leonard did in the second outing against Duran, but I do believe Floyd would win by a large margin against Pernell.
At 135 or 147 against Duran?Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethThey are ATGs, but Mayweather may conceivably end up a greater all time player then either of them in multiple weight classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I just feel Mayweather's style is all wrong for these guys. Duran would be frustrated by Floyd's movement, and when he did catch Floyd, this is a much better defensive fighter than Leonard, and I think it would tell.
The problem Whitaker would have is that his defense was largely based on reflexes and ingenuity, but I truly believe Floyd is too fast and accurate and adaptive with his punches for that type of defensive strategy. I think Whitaker being a fast southpaw with amazing skill would cause Mayweather some problems, but Floyd would keep his hands up, and catch Whitaker's punches off his gloves, then gradually integrate more and more offensive as the fight progresses similar to how he fought Judah, but I think Judah's speed and power were one tier above Pernell's.
I think Mayweather-Duran would be an incredibly tough fight because Floyd doesn't ride the bicycle like Leonard did in the second outing against Duran, but I do believe Floyd would win by a large margin against Pernell.
I don't think Floyd beats Duran at all at 135, he has a chance at 147, but I wouldn't favor him.
That equals smashed to fucking bits for floyd...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Even Floyd senior said "Shane used to throw punches like bam,bam,bam,bam,bam,bam,bam,bam, now he's like BOOM........Boom.......Boom"
And if the former version were in the ring last night then the third round doesn't exist....
Super Feather - Azumah Nelson
Lightweight- Roberto Duran
Super Lightweight- Kostya Tszyu/Aaron Pryor
Welterweight - Sugar Ray Leonard/Tommy Hearns
All of the above in ther prime would give Mayweather hell.
Mosley was 8-9 years from his prime.
What i saw in Round 2 when Mosley caught Floyd, convinces me Tzsyu would have landed his right hand at some point, his hand speed and accuracy was exceptional.
Shame about Norris: the man can't even form complete sentences anymore. But, I think Norris would have given a ton of trouble, as Norris was a gifted athlete.
I don't think Duran had the hand-speed to compete with F.M.
I think Ray Robinson would have beaten him, but it would be a real technical fight.
I think there's a high probability that he gets caught by Leonard or Hearns. Both were great finishers. I really don't know. Would be interesting to write a program that takes all of these factors into consideration and spits out probable results.
As much as I admired Tszyu, I don't think he would have much of a shot. However, as a previous poster mentioned, Tszyu was deadly accurate with his punches. If Kostya would have landed the same right that Mosley landed in round 2, I think Tszyu would have had a much better chance at finishing Mayweather.
Whitaker would have proven to be a really intriguing match-up, but I think Mayweather has better defensive skills. Power goes to Whitaker, though. Whitaker was also a very adaptable fighter. I'm really not sure about this one.
I think Arguello would have been another intriguing match-up. I've effectively thrown his losses to Pryor to the wind, as Pryor had that piece of filth Panama Lewis in his corner - a man who has ended the career of many a promising fighter with his illegal tactics. Just look at what happened to Collins.
:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
How did I know you'd find a way to get all over Tszyu's balls :rolleyes:
If he can take Mosley's punches, he could take Tszyu's. No way was Tzsyu faster than Shane or more powerful. Oh but wait, he stopped Zab Judah right ;D
Shane Mosley is 39 in September, inactive for the past 15 months and he almost knocked Floyd out in the 2nd round! Tszyu ate southpaws for breakfast, the Tszyu of 99-2001 would give Floyd hell. Maybe the Mosley of 2000 would too? I'm not saying they would win, Floyd's performance against Mosley was brilliant after being in real trouble early. What i am saying is Tszyu was probably the best fighter i have seen against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
How did I know you'd find a way to get all over Tszyu's balls :rolleyes:
If he can take Mosley's punches, he could take Tszyu's. No way was Tzsyu faster than Shane or more powerful. Oh but wait, he stopped Zab Judah right ;D
Also, Zab Judah was the favourite going into that fight too!
:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANShane Mosley is 39 in September, inactive for the past 15 months and he almost knocked Floyd out in the 2nd round! Tszyu ate southpaws for breakfast, the Tszyu of 99-2001 would give Floyd hell. Maybe the Mosley of 2000 would too? I'm not saying they would win, Floyd's performance against Mosley was brilliant after being in real trouble early. What i am saying is Tszyu was probably the best fighter i have seen against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
How did I know you'd find a way to get all over Tszyu's balls :rolleyes:
If he can take Mosley's punches, he could take Tszyu's. No way was Tzsyu faster than Shane or more powerful. Oh but wait, he stopped Zab Judah right ;D
Also, Zab Judah was the favourite going into that fight too!
That's great, not that it would make any difference seeing as Floyd is an ORTHODOX fighter.
You're right in 99-01, Tszyu probably would have given him hell seeing as Floyd was a 130lber then :rolleyes:
For all of what Mosley was facing, he's so superior a fighter now to what Tszyu ever was it's unreal.
Yes, we all know the legendary Tszyu could have beaten Floyd and Pacquiao all on the same night. In fact he was so dangerous guys like Oscar, Floyd, Manny, all ducked him. In fact the great 147 pound class in the 90s with Quartey, DLH, Whitaker, Mosley, all ducked Tszyu by not refusing to drop down to 140 to fight him.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANShane Mosley is 39 in September, inactive for the past 15 months and he almost knocked Floyd out in the 2nd round! Tszyu ate southpaws for breakfast, the Tszyu of 99-2001 would give Floyd hell. Maybe the Mosley of 2000 would too? I'm not saying they would win, Floyd's performance against Mosley was brilliant after being in real trouble early. What i am saying is Tszyu was probably the best fighter i have seen against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
How did I know you'd find a way to get all over Tszyu's balls :rolleyes:
If he can take Mosley's punches, he could take Tszyu's. No way was Tzsyu faster than Shane or more powerful. Oh but wait, he stopped Zab Judah right ;D
Also, Zab Judah was the favourite going into that fight too!
I mean my god, when you beat a Zab Judah and a 40 year old Chavez, no one's going to want to fight you!
You all laugh about Tszyu beating Zab but you all forget he was meant to be the next big thing in boxing. Also if watch Zab fight after the tszyu fight hes a different fighter, he doesnt want to get hit. Face it Tszyu ended Zabs career, Zab would not be the scared little fighter he is today if Tszyu hadnt of knocked him out that way. So saying "oh Tszyu only beat Zab", well im pretty sure Tszyu beat Zab when he was at his best unlike other guys like Clottey, Cotto and Mayweather and it all took them longer then 2 rounds ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogYes, we all know the legendary Tszyu could have beaten Floyd and Pacquiao all on the same night. In fact he was so dangerous guys like Oscar, Floyd, Manny, all ducked him. In fact the great 147 pound class in the 90s with Quartey, DLH, Whitaker, Mosley, all ducked Tszyu by not refusing to drop down to 140 to fight him.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANShane Mosley is 39 in September, inactive for the past 15 months and he almost knocked Floyd out in the 2nd round! Tszyu ate southpaws for breakfast, the Tszyu of 99-2001 would give Floyd hell. Maybe the Mosley of 2000 would too? I'm not saying they would win, Floyd's performance against Mosley was brilliant after being in real trouble early. What i am saying is Tszyu was probably the best fighter i have seen against southpaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkin
Also, Zab Judah was the favourite going into that fight too!
I mean my god, when you beat a Zab Judah and a 40 year old Chavez, no one's going to want to fight you!
Do you not maybe see the correlation between those two points?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeyYou all laugh about Tszyu beating Zab but you all forget he was meant to be the next big thing in boxing. Also if watch Zab fight after the tszyu fight hes a different fighter, he doesnt want to get hit. Face it Tszyu ended Zabs career, Zab would not be the scared little fighter he is today if Tszyu hadnt of knocked him out that way. So saying "oh Tszyu only beat Zab", well im pretty sure Tszyu beat Zab when he was at his best unlike other guys like Clottey, Cotto and Mayweather and it all took them longer then 2 rounds ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogYes, we all know the legendary Tszyu could have beaten Floyd and Pacquiao all on the same night. In fact he was so dangerous guys like Oscar, Floyd, Manny, all ducked him. In fact the great 147 pound class in the 90s with Quartey, DLH, Whitaker, Mosley, all ducked Tszyu by not refusing to drop down to 140 to fight him.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
I mean my god, when you beat a Zab Judah and a 40 year old Chavez, no one's going to want to fight you!
It was a great shot to finish him no doubt, but it was that, we don't call Hasim Rahman an ATG because he got a great shot in on Lewis who I shouldn't even be comparing with Zab.
Zab won the first round as well.
The point is that Tszyu did nothing to give merit to the argument that Pacquaio, Mayweather, Mosley & De La Hoya would have all crumbled in his wake. All of those 4 guys are genuine ATGs. Tszyu just isn't, he was an excellent fighter and a almost certain Hall of Famer, but an all-time great he ain't.