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Obviously I prefer boxing, MMA fights are so hit and miss, either good or boring as hell. I never really see any middle.
The last MMA fight I watched was the Alex Reid fight, which I only watched because I expected it to be a farce, but that was pretty good. Mainly I suppose because they were stood up most the night actually fighting and not cuddling on the floor making man love.
Boxing is but an aspect of fighting its a small part of stand up. So you mean to say if you were in a fight with someone and they got close to you so punches would be almost ineffective you would use a knee or elbow? If someone had kicked you when you were down then you got the chance to do so back to them you would turn it down? Why your view of MMA fighters is so low is beyond me. There are people out there would say to men in a ring punching each other is idiotic but thats because they don't understand the sport and you obviously don't understand MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
If we go by that then theres nothing sporting in seeing a fighter get dominated for 12 rounds so he is hospitalized or a late stoppage causing damage to a fighter. Its a joke that BOXING fans can just dismiss a sport because its so brutal! And boxing isnt? Also Its dull because you don't appreciate it and highly likely you don't understand half of it for example the ground game or up against the fence in the clinch.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoThere's nothing remotely sporting about repeatedly punching an already unconscious bloke in the face. I think that's most people's gripe, aside from it being fairly dull.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfan
I enjoyed the Bisping fight. That was exciting and sporting. A great combination. I enjoyed the knockout shot that was landed on Hardy, because imo he's a big mouthed silly twat. But even though i don't like him, it still wasn't good to see him pummelled twice whilst he was knocked out.
Matty nothing personal but this is a dumb argument. First of all, MMA isn't real fighting. Real fighting is real fighting, where literally anything happens. No setting people up for a guillotine or anything like that, no weapons, people wear gloves etc. It's a sport, that's why it has rules. Boxing is also a sport, it's why it has rules. They're both fighting sports but to argue one is better because it is 'more like fighting' is dumb because neither of them are actual no holds barred fighting. Also, boxing is just one part of MMA standup like Joe ROgan says. Most MMA fighters, even ones with a boxing base style, have completely ignored some very basic boxing fundamentals like good head movement and other things. Secondly, boxing is a sport with it's own set of rules that have been very successful. Boxing is a specialty, it takes years and years perfecting your boxing while someone can go into MMA with knowledge of only one discipline and take a few years to round out their skills and beat anybody. What's really harder? It's hard to say. MMA and boxing need to stop being compared, also I don't like MMA simply because so much of the standup is reminiscent to watching a Toughman competition. It's just not appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfanBoxing is but an aspect of fighting its a small part of stand up. So you mean to say if you were in a fight with someone and they got close to you so punches would be almost ineffective you would use a knee or elbow? If someone had kicked you when you were down then you got the chance to do so back to them you would turn it down? Why your view of MMA fighters is so low is beyond me. There are people out there would say to men in a ring punching each other is idiotic but thats because they don't understand the sport and you obviously don't understand MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
However, as far as the strikes while downed being dangerous, they definitely are and Bisping got the worst of it by Henderson BUT it's still safer then boxing. Boxing gives you a standing 8 to collect yourself and go get on your feet to take punishment when really you shouldn't be. At least when you're out in MMA, you can take 2-3 shots max. In boxing you can take hundreds of more shots when in MMA you would have been stopped the first or second time you got hit cleanly and hurt.
It's a bit unfair to say people aren't understanding it because they think it is boring. What is there to really understand about the ground game? They get on the ground and wrestle around for a dominant position and wait the round out, bludgeon the opponent or try to use a choke or submission to make them quit. I wouldn't agree with someone who says that those things take no skill but that has no bearing on whether or not I want to watch it. I think it is a bit of a joke to assume not enjoying something equals not understanding it.
I agree, but when a fighter is getting dominated (in boxing), he can actually still defend himself. He can also choose to quit, and the referee and his corner can also pull him out. On rare occasions where this doesn't happen, you have to point the finger at the referee and/or the fighter's corner - not the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfanIf we go by that then theres nothing sporting in seeing a fighter get dominated for 12 rounds so he is hospitalized or a late stoppage causing damage to a fighter. Its a joke that BOXING fans can just dismiss a sport because its so brutal! And boxing isnt? Also Its dull because you don't appreciate it and highly likely you don't understand half of it for example the ground game or up against the fence in the clinch.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoThere's nothing remotely sporting about repeatedly punching an already unconscious bloke in the face. I think that's most people's gripe, aside from it being fairly dull.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfan
I enjoyed the Bisping fight. That was exciting and sporting. A great combination. I enjoyed the knockout shot that was landed on Hardy, because imo he's a big mouthed silly twat. But even though i don't like him, it still wasn't good to see him pummelled twice whilst he was knocked out.
When a fighter is getting pounded in the face whilst he's unconscious, and that smug wanker Joe Rogan is creaming himself over it, the unconscious fighter has no choice but to take the punishment. The sad part is how eager Condit was to 'ground and pound' an all ready clearly knocked out Dan Hardy. Same with the Henderson - Bisping fight. What's even sadder is the little asbo fuckers in the 'Tap Out' t-shirts in the crowd giving it the gang signs, delighted that they've finally found a sport that represents them as a person.
Utter cringe worthy.
As for the 'not understanding it', see Global's post. Pretty much sums up my feelings.
If I can't whup someone's ass with just my two fists then I don't deserve to win. That's the way I look at it, I may be old school, but I'm from the line of thinking that #1 I don't fight without reason #2 if I whip someone's ass in a fight the fight ends there and its settled and I'll go buy the poor guy a beer and #3 I can take losing without resorting to trying to kill someone or calling the cops.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfanBoxing is but an aspect of fighting its a small part of stand up. So you mean to say if you were in a fight with someone and they got close to you so punches would be almost ineffective you would use a knee or elbow? If someone had kicked you when you were down then you got the chance to do so back to them you would turn it down? Why your view of MMA fighters is so low is beyond me. There are people out there would say to men in a ring punching each other is idiotic but thats because they don't understand the sport and you obviously don't understand MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
All this extra bullshit is life threatening and unnecessary. If you were in a street fight and someone KO'd you would you want them to help you back up or get in a few more shots and leave you for dead?
People have no manners these days!
I fully understand it, I just don't appreciate it. I do like a good scrap of any kind, any sport. But a love boxing because of the art.
MMA is more raw, but the lack of rules can lead to boring struggles for love. Barely moving for ages, just holding a grip on someone. Just doesn't excite me.
That's not to say boxing doesn't have it's dire fights. I'm not even gonna name them, don't need to. But as with any sports it's not always thrills.
There is a terrible misconception that MMA is more dangerous than boxing. This is completely false. Yes, there are times when MMA can be barbaric.
But think about this: what would have happened if the Hardy (the Brit with the Mohawk the original poster mentioned) bout would have been a boxing match? After having his brain rattled, he would have been given a 10 count to get up. He would have made the count, and depending on his recovery time, he could have suffered another several minutes (or rounds) of blows to the head.
Although the MMA fininsh looks more brutal and even cowardly, the fallen fighter was better off taking the one or two extra punches on the ground. Those ground punches are not nearly as hard as a standing punch, A) because you can't put your whole body into it and B) because fighters hold back because if they miss, it means a broken hand on the mat.
A good example of this is the last Macarenelli fight. A concussed, hurt Macarenelli was given his 10 count so he could get to his feet, only to take several more brutal haymakers. In MMA, the fight would have been stopped when he was first dropped.
If you're on the ground in some kind of wrestling hold and your opponent has a free hand with which he pummels you with repeatedly the ref can't tell you're hurt until your body goes limp at which time an MMA fighter amps up the aggression and gets in 3-4 more good whacks before the fight is over.
More safe huh?
Enzo got asked if he was OK before he came to scratch, he answered in the affirmative. He was given an out and he nor his corner took it.
Don't agree with the last bit. Seen it on many occasion where a fighter has literally jumped up into the air to ensure his full body weight comes down on the face of the fallen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Half agree with the rest, although in Boxing there is that break which allows the referee to judge if a fighter is capable of carrying on. What happened with Enzo Mac is talked about because it is so rare.
I can't see the argument for saying Hardy would have got back up to take more punishment. No sane referee would have let him continue. He was in a bad way.
With that said, i do think that MMA is probably a little safer than Boxing, but again that is more of a gut feeling based on exactly fuck all.
However it's not just the cowardice with hitting an unconscious man, it's the fact that 'ground and pound' is a celebrated aspect of the sport, and Joe Rogan and his cronies coo over it like an excited kid on Christmas Day. I don't see that aspect in Boxing. When there's a bad knockout, more often than not, the attention turns to the injured fighter, and his well-being takes over. I don't see that in the UFC. The more avid fans might see it, but i just don't.
Although... There has been a valid argument recently(ish) that commented on the difference in both visible damage (like cuts and bruises) caused by MMA style mits and undetectable damage (like brain haemorrhaging) damage caused by a 10oz gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by onoDon't agree with the last bit. Seen it on many occasion where a fighter has literally jumped up into the air to ensure his full body weight comes down on the face of the fallen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Half agree with the rest, although in Boxing there is that break which allows the referee to judge if a fighter is capable of carrying on. What happened with Enzo Mac is talked about because it is so rare.
I can't see the argument for saying Hardy would have got back up to take more punishment. No sane referee would have let him continue. He was in a bad way.
With that said, i do think that MMA is probably a little safer than Boxing, but again that is more of a gut feeling based on exactly fuck all.
However it's not just the cowardice with hitting an unconscious man, it's the fact that 'ground and pound' is a celebrated aspect of the sport, and Joe Rogan and his cronies coo over it like an excited kid on Christmas Day. I don't see that aspect in Boxing. When there's a bad knockout, more often than not, the attention turns to the injured fighter, and his well-being takes over. I don't see that in the UFC. The more avid fans might see it, but i just don't.
I know that came across as abit lame... I know 10oz gloves don't directly cause brain haemorrhaging but the argument states that the prolonged (and ironically, more sufferable) beating that a fighter can take from 10oz gloves, puts them at a greater risk of sustaining greater internal damage.
In effect, it's safer to have your lights put out, than to have your brain repeatedly rattled.
Or something like that anyway... :rolleyes:
Oh, and then there's the idea that because your hands are more protected in Boxing gloves bla bla bla
You don't have deaths in boxing from spectacular one punch KO's . Fortunately, those victims got lucky :-\
What I bolded is an unfair argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by amatMatty nothing personal but this is a dumb argument. First of all, MMA isn't real fighting. Real fighting is real fighting, where literally anything happens. No setting people up for a guillotine or anything like that, no weapons, people wear gloves etc. It's a sport, that's why it has rules. Boxing is also a sport, it's why it has rules. They're both fighting sports but to argue one is better because it is 'more like fighting' is dumb because neither of them are actual no holds barred fighting. Also, boxing is just one part of MMA standup like Joe ROgan says. Most MMA fighters, even ones with a boxing base style, have completely ignored some very basic boxing fundamentals like good head movement and other things. Secondly, boxing is a sport with it's own set of rules that have been very successful. Boxing is a specialty, it takes years and years perfecting your boxing while someone can go into MMA with knowledge of only one discipline and take a few years to round out their skills and beat anybody. What's really harder? It's hard to say. MMA and boxing need to stop being compared, also I don't like MMA simply because so much of the standup is reminiscent to watching a Toughman competition. It's just not appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattboxingfanBoxing is but an aspect of fighting its a small part of stand up. So you mean to say if you were in a fight with someone and they got close to you so punches would be almost ineffective you would use a knee or elbow? If someone had kicked you when you were down then you got the chance to do so back to them you would turn it down? Why your view of MMA fighters is so low is beyond me. There are people out there would say to men in a ring punching each other is idiotic but thats because they don't understand the sport and you obviously don't understand MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
However, as far as the strikes while downed being dangerous, they definitely are and Bisping got the worst of it by Henderson BUT it's still safer then boxing. Boxing gives you a standing 8 to collect yourself and go get on your feet to take punishment when really you shouldn't be. At least when you're out in MMA, you can take 2-3 shots max. In boxing you can take hundreds of more shots when in MMA you would have been stopped the first or second time you got hit cleanly and hurt.
Even when MMA fighters go into it with knowledge of only one discipline it is usually a discipline they spent years perfecting which could have been just as hard to craft as boxing is. You can't say that boxing takes years to perfect but is harder then someone who goes into MMA with knowledge of a discipline(whether it be wrestling, striking, or jujitsu) it is usually a discipline they took years crafting whether it be as a child or since high school through college and they are usually in a high division of what they practiced. So if you wanted to get technical MMA would be harder, because in boxing you would have to only focus on that, in MMA you'd have to focus on your striking, and you'd have to focus on your wrestling and you'd have to focus on your jujitsu.
And to say they only spent years on one "aspect" of MMA to moderate success somehow making boxing harder to do, it's no less harder then crafting wrestling skills or jujitsu skills over years. And even people that craft their boxing for years don't know everything. I could say a boxer could know only how to fight at range and have a knockout punch and go on to have moderate success against other boxers that may have been in it longer than them, but they may have no knowledge whatsoever on how to fight on the inside but they get away with it for a while. Boxing isn't harder than MMA nor vice versa, and its an unfair argument to say "well you can go into mma with knowledge of one discipline and do well, but in boxing you have to take years to craft it to be successful." That one discipline in mma they have a knowledge of is usually one crafted over years. So you can't make that argument on which is harder through that.