One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

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10-27-2010, 02:43 AM
Taeth

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0james0

Unless he has simply thought fuck the catch weight? Maybe he just plans on coming in heavier and paying the penalty.

Unlikely, but could be

Martinez has never struggled with weight. In the Williams Martinez fight he rehydrated about 6lbs and in the Pavlik fight it was even less.

I can lose 12 lbs of water weight in a day, and I weight 145. A professional athlete and I had to lose 20lbs in 4 weeks, that makes it come down to about 2lbs a week, which is a lot more doable.

Martinez is not like Mayweather. A fighter who lures a Featherweight to "catchweight Welter" and bends the scales while laughing it off. I mean that was about the lowest you can go in my book. He's no better than Joan Guzman.

Martinez has character, and he shows up to work with his gloves because they make him wear them. They still gotta remind Mayweather to take his wife-beater (for you brits this is a style of shirt for us cookie americans. just watch the jersey shore. That's all the guys wear) off I guess when goes anywhere....

I am shocked more people are not excited about this fight. This is my second fight I am going to this year. Last was Martinez-Pavlik. He won a lot of fans that night. He's my favorite champ right now. Who will he NOT fight??? Tell you this much. He'd beat mayweather's ass to a pulp.

Mayweather would destroy Martinez... Who are you trying to kid? Martinez plays everything off just speed, he never sits on his punches, he literally relies on athleticism more than Roy Jones or Gamboa, but he doesn't have their instincts or skill. Mayweather would absolutely pick him apart. Both Williams and Martinez are way too highly ranked, and given way too much credit. I do think they are really talented fighters, but Paul WIlliams is no Hearns caliber tall guy he just a tall good athlete who throws and lot of arm punches and is wide open defenisvely, and Martinez is no Mayweather, Pacquiao level speed guy. He has none of the killer instinct, power, and combinations of Pacquiao, and none of Mayweather's defensive genius, instincts, and timing.
10-27-2010, 04:12 AM
No Contest

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Williams is a freak of nature. Welterweights wont fight him, I doubt any ww champs have the balls to fight him. I think he could make ww still, but that window is closing, some douche will probably call him out at ww, once he shows trouble making it. I think PW is the most underrated boxer right now, people actually think Kermit Cintron was gonna beat him if that fight went on, thats the kind of credit he gets. If he never lost that Quintana fight I wonder what people would be saying?
10-27-2010, 04:26 AM
Spicoli

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Telling ya,weights are incidental for this one. Its unfortunately becoming more common with catch weight crap'olla. Sacrafice enough greenbacks and they will both wink and nod. I expect Williams to come in the ring well north of agreed number 'unofficially'. Martinez won't melt away and it'll still come off. More and more I think Martinez wins this via bloody and standing TKO on Williams in the late rounds. Great rematch and should see many fireworks before its all said and done.
10-27-2010, 06:53 AM
Manuel "Chubby" Medina

I dnt think Martinez would go careless lik that. Hiz obviously already used to losing weight right before the fight. I also have Martinez winning by TKO.
10-27-2010, 08:40 AM
armin

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

I didn't read anything in this thread but taeths post of pbf would beat the shit out of martinez. Granted I;m drunk but really??? MArtinez is way bigger naturally than mayweahter no way does pbf "destroy" martinez he might beat him but not destroy him!!! When is the last time pbf has destroyed anone for that matter??/
10-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Rantcatrat

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0james0

Unless he has simply thought fuck the catch weight? Maybe he just plans on coming in heavier and paying the penalty.

Unlikely, but could be

Martinez has never struggled with weight. In the Williams Martinez fight he rehydrated about 6lbs and in the Pavlik fight it was even less.

I can lose 12 lbs of water weight in a day, and I weight 145. A professional athlete and I had to lose 20lbs in 4 weeks, that makes it come down to about 2lbs a week, which is a lot more doable.

Martinez is not like Mayweather. A fighter who lures a Featherweight to "catchweight Welter" and bends the scales while laughing it off. I mean that was about the lowest you can go in my book. He's no better than Joan Guzman.

Martinez has character, and he shows up to work with his gloves because they make him wear them. They still gotta remind Mayweather to take his wife-beater (for you brits this is a style of shirt for us cookie americans. just watch the jersey shore. That's all the guys wear) off I guess when goes anywhere....

I am shocked more people are not excited about this fight. This is my second fight I am going to this year. Last was Martinez-Pavlik. He won a lot of fans that night. He's my favorite champ right now. Who will he NOT fight??? Tell you this much. He'd beat mayweather's ass to a pulp.

Mayweather would destroy Martinez... Who are you trying to kid? Martinez plays everything off just speed, he never sits on his punches, he literally relies on athleticism more than Roy Jones or Gamboa, but he doesn't have their instincts or skill. Mayweather would absolutely pick him apart. Both Williams and Martinez are way too highly ranked, and given way too much credit. I do think they are really talented fighters, but Paul WIlliams is no Hearns caliber tall guy he just a tall good athlete who throws and lot of arm punches and is wide open defenisvely, and Martinez is no Mayweather, Pacquiao level speed guy. He has none of the killer instinct, power, and combinations of Pacquiao, and none of Mayweather's defensive genius, instincts, and timing.

I disagree that Martinez is too highly ranked. Martinez beat the middleweight champion of the world at the same time he was holding the junior middleweight champion belt. He has fought prime versions of Cintron, Williams, Pavlik, Williams II in his last four fights. He fought Williams when most people said Williams was the most feared fighter on the planet. Shane and Floyd wouldn't fight Williams. Even Pavlik, whether his reason to not fight was true, wouldn't fight him.

Think about it. Mayweather has fought Ricky Hatton who regularly fought at 140 (at 147), Marquez who regularly fought at 130-135 (at 147), and a 38-year old Shane Mosley (personally, I think it was a good win). You tell me: What's the tougher competition? Maybe Mayweather is better, but we can both agree he could do more to show it.

Lastly, explain why you think Mayweather would beat Williams when Mayweather himself has been on record saying he thinks Williams is too big to fight? I don't have the time to listen to it all right now, but it's somewhere in the Ra the Rugged Man interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjmTfsjLXIA
10-27-2010, 02:30 PM
Rantcatrat

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Telling ya,weights are incidental for this one. Its unfortunately becoming more common with catch weight crap'olla. Sacrafice enough greenbacks and they will both wink and nod. I expect Williams to come in the ring well north of agreed number 'unofficially'. Martinez won't melt away and it'll still come off. More and more I think Martinez wins this via bloody and standing TKO on Williams in the late rounds. Great rematch and should see many fireworks before its all said and done.

Why is that the case if Williams is already at 162?

Can someone explain to me (because I don't know) is dropping 19 pounds in a month before a fight easy to do? Is it done regularly?
10-27-2010, 04:40 PM
Taeth

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by armin

I didn't read anything in this thread but taeths post of pbf would beat the shit out of martinez. Granted I;m drunk but really??? MArtinez is way bigger naturally than mayweahter no way does pbf "destroy" martinez he might beat him but not destroy him!!! When is the last time pbf has destroyed anone for that matter??/

YOu are taking words too literally, I mean that he would embarrass him in there like he did Marquez, Mosley, Hatton, etc, etc.
10-27-2010, 04:52 PM
Taeth

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0james0

Unless he has simply thought fuck the catch weight? Maybe he just plans on coming in heavier and paying the penalty.

Unlikely, but could be

Martinez has never struggled with weight. In the Williams Martinez fight he rehydrated about 6lbs and in the Pavlik fight it was even less.

I can lose 12 lbs of water weight in a day, and I weight 145. A professional athlete and I had to lose 20lbs in 4 weeks, that makes it come down to about 2lbs a week, which is a lot more doable.

Martinez is not like Mayweather. A fighter who lures a Featherweight to "catchweight Welter" and bends the scales while laughing it off. I mean that was about the lowest you can go in my book. He's no better than Joan Guzman.

Martinez has character, and he shows up to work with his gloves because they make him wear them. They still gotta remind Mayweather to take his wife-beater (for you brits this is a style of shirt for us cookie americans. just watch the jersey shore. That's all the guys wear) off I guess when goes anywhere....

I am shocked more people are not excited about this fight. This is my second fight I am going to this year. Last was Martinez-Pavlik. He won a lot of fans that night. He's my favorite champ right now. Who will he NOT fight??? Tell you this much. He'd beat mayweather's ass to a pulp.

Mayweather would destroy Martinez... Who are you trying to kid? Martinez plays everything off just speed, he never sits on his punches, he literally relies on athleticism more than Roy Jones or Gamboa, but he doesn't have their instincts or skill. Mayweather would absolutely pick him apart. Both Williams and Martinez are way too highly ranked, and given way too much credit. I do think they are really talented fighters, but Paul WIlliams is no Hearns caliber tall guy he just a tall good athlete who throws and lot of arm punches and is wide open defenisvely, and Martinez is no Mayweather, Pacquiao level speed guy. He has none of the killer instinct, power, and combinations of Pacquiao, and none of Mayweather's defensive genius, instincts, and timing.

I disagree that Martinez is too highly ranked. Martinez beat the middleweight champion of the world at the same time he was holding the junior middleweight champion belt. He has fought prime versions of Cintron, Williams, Pavlik, Williams II in his last four fights. He fought Williams when most people said Williams was the most feared fighter on the planet. Shane and Floyd wouldn't fight Williams. Even Pavlik, whether his reason to not fight was true, wouldn't fight him.

Think about it. Mayweather has fought Ricky Hatton who regularly fought at 140 (at 147), Marquez who regularly fought at 130-135 (at 147), and a 38-year old Shane Mosley (personally, I think it was a good win). You tell me: What's the tougher competition? Maybe Mayweather is better, but we can both agree he could do more to show it.

Lastly, explain why you think Mayweather would beat Williams when Mayweather himself has been on record saying he thinks Williams is too big to fight? I don't have the time to listen to it all right now, but it's somewhere in the Ra the Rugged Man interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjmTfsjLXIA

Marquez and Mosley were ranked 2nd, and 3rd p4p, and are way better fights than Cintron and Pavlik regardless of age. Hell a 44 or 45 year old Hopkins kicked the crap out of Pavlik, and Pavlik had a hard time going back down to 160. He was never that special to begin with. Cintron? He is a good fighter, but not p4p type guy, and certainly not a guy that would give Mayweather half the trouble he gave Martinez in that fight, I don't think he deserved a draw let alone being allowed to complete the fight, but he was giving Martinez problems in some parts of that fight.

Back to Mayweather's opposition, Marquez was smaller but Mayweather was naturally about a weightclass above Marquez, Marquez didn't try to become a welterweight in size, he tried to use speeda against Mayweather who outsped and outboxed him. Floyd didn't use size in this fight, and he wasn't that much bigger maybe an inch and a half taller and 4 pounds heavier. Also FLoyd hadn't fought in almost 2 years.

Hatton started his career 10 pounds north of Floyd, and was naturally the bigger man, Floyd is a blown up super featherweight, he is still pretty lanky, and even Marquez had bigger bicepts, chest, and thighs than Mayweather. Hatton was much naturally stronger than Floyd, and you could see in the ring how he always backed Floyd up, and how a few times he moved Floyd around with relative ease.

Mosley, Everyone was bitching about Floyd not facing Mosley or Pacquiao when he first came back, but after his comeback fight Floyd fought the best WW in the world, the guy who destroyed Margarito(a guy who ko'ed Martinez).

YOu said that Mayweather can do a better job proving his greatness? Besides Pacquiao then who next, Floyd's last 4 opponents read De La Hoya(not weight drained), Hatton, Marquez, Mosley. Give the guy a break.
10-27-2010, 05:18 PM
Rantcatrat

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0james0

Unless he has simply thought fuck the catch weight? Maybe he just plans on coming in heavier and paying the penalty.

Unlikely, but could be

Martinez has never struggled with weight. In the Williams Martinez fight he rehydrated about 6lbs and in the Pavlik fight it was even less.

I can lose 12 lbs of water weight in a day, and I weight 145. A professional athlete and I had to lose 20lbs in 4 weeks, that makes it come down to about 2lbs a week, which is a lot more doable.

Martinez is not like Mayweather. A fighter who lures a Featherweight to "catchweight Welter" and bends the scales while laughing it off. I mean that was about the lowest you can go in my book. He's no better than Joan Guzman.

Martinez has character, and he shows up to work with his gloves because they make him wear them. They still gotta remind Mayweather to take his wife-beater (for you brits this is a style of shirt for us cookie americans. just watch the jersey shore. That's all the guys wear) off I guess when goes anywhere....

I am shocked more people are not excited about this fight. This is my second fight I am going to this year. Last was Martinez-Pavlik. He won a lot of fans that night. He's my favorite champ right now. Who will he NOT fight??? Tell you this much. He'd beat mayweather's ass to a pulp.

Mayweather would destroy Martinez... Who are you trying to kid? Martinez plays everything off just speed, he never sits on his punches, he literally relies on athleticism more than Roy Jones or Gamboa, but he doesn't have their instincts or skill. Mayweather would absolutely pick him apart. Both Williams and Martinez are way too highly ranked, and given way too much credit. I do think they are really talented fighters, but Paul WIlliams is no Hearns caliber tall guy he just a tall good athlete who throws and lot of arm punches and is wide open defenisvely, and Martinez is no Mayweather, Pacquiao level speed guy. He has none of the killer instinct, power, and combinations of Pacquiao, and none of Mayweather's defensive genius, instincts, and timing.

I disagree that Martinez is too highly ranked. Martinez beat the middleweight champion of the world at the same time he was holding the junior middleweight champion belt. He has fought prime versions of Cintron, Williams, Pavlik, Williams II in his last four fights. He fought Williams when most people said Williams was the most feared fighter on the planet. Shane and Floyd wouldn't fight Williams. Even Pavlik, whether his reason to not fight was true, wouldn't fight him.

Think about it. Mayweather has fought Ricky Hatton who regularly fought at 140 (at 147), Marquez who regularly fought at 130-135 (at 147), and a 38-year old Shane Mosley (personally, I think it was a good win). You tell me: What's the tougher competition? Maybe Mayweather is better, but we can both agree he could do more to show it.

Lastly, explain why you think Mayweather would beat Williams when Mayweather himself has been on record saying he thinks Williams is too big to fight? I don't have the time to listen to it all right now, but it's somewhere in the Ra the Rugged Man interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjmTfsjLXIA

Marquez and Mosley were ranked 2nd, and 3rd p4p, and are way better fights than Cintron and Pavlik regardless of age. Hell a 44 or 45 year old Hopkins kicked the crap out of Pavlik, and Pavlik had a hard time going back down to 160. He was never that special to begin with. Cintron? He is a good fighter, but not p4p type guy, and certainly not a guy that would give Mayweather half the trouble he gave Martinez in that fight, I don't think he deserved a draw let alone being allowed to complete the fight, but he was giving Martinez problems in some parts of that fight.

Back to Mayweather's opposition, Marquez was smaller but Mayweather was naturally about a weightclass above Marquez, Marquez didn't try to become a welterweight in size, he tried to use speeda against Mayweather who outsped and outboxed him.Floyd didn't use size in this fight, and he wasn't that much bigger maybe an inch and a half taller and 4 pounds heavier. Also FLoyd hadn't fought in almost 2 years.

Hatton started his career 10 pounds north of Floyd, and was naturally the bigger man, Floyd is a blown up super featherweight, he is still pretty lanky, and even Marquez had bigger bicepts, chest, and thighs than Mayweather. Hatton was much naturally stronger than Floyd, and you could see in the ring how he always backed Floyd up, and how a few times he moved Floyd around with relative ease.

Mosley, Everyone was bitching about Floyd not facing Mosley or Pacquiao when he first came back, but after his comeback fight Floyd fought the best WW in the world, the guy who destroyed Margarito(a guy who ko'ed Martinez).

YOu said that Mayweather can do a better job proving his greatness? Besides Pacquiao then who next, Floyd's last 4 opponents read De La Hoya(not weight drained), Hatton, Marquez, Mosley. Give the guy a break.

There is no real way to rationalize the Marquez fight other than to say that he needed a warm-up after being retired. Before Floyd, Marquez had never fought at 140, let alone 147. To say that he didn't use his size, is blatently wrong. He didn't use his size like Kiltscho, but he used his size to maintain range and counter punch. It's still using his size. And even then, he didn't come in at the contracted weight. He came in 2 pounds heavier. If size wasn't an issue, why didn't he make 145? And now what is Marquez doing - he is fighting at 135! 12 pounds less than when he fought Floyd. Seriously, Floyd got flack for that fight and there was a reason for it.

Certainly, Marquez and Mosley are better p4p fighters than Pavlik. But, Marquez is a natural jr. lightweight/lightweight. It's like saying that Chad Dawson would get more credit for beating Paul Williams/Sergio Martinez (top middleweights and p4p fighters) than a lesser guy at 175, like say Zsolt Erdei. It doesn't make any sense. Sure, Marquez is great, but at 135, not 147. I'll say this, I pick Andre Berto etc. to knock out Marquez with ease at 147, but Marquez may have better boxing skills on the whole. Make sense?

Now, the Shane Mosley fight was a legit win. Credit due.

Ricky Hatton was not in anyway the force at 147 that he was at 140. Don't get me wrong, Floyd would have beat him at 140 too. But, I would have given Floyd more credit for beating Ricky at the weight he had been best at. Didn't Collazo basically beat Hatton, and Collazo is not even a top, top welterweight.

One more thing, a 44-year old Hopkins beat Pavlik at 170. Not at 160. Don't forget that. Pavlik was the linear middleweight world champion. Sergio beat him. You probably know the sport's history better than I do, Taeth, has Floyd ever beat a linear champion? When Sergio fought Pavlik, Pavlik had never been beat at 160. I take a win over Pavlik at Pavlik's natural weight as comparable to a win over Hatton or Marquez. Here's the thing, Floyd is the p4p best in the world. Martinez isn't. There isn't a debate on that point. So, really, if you think about it, you shouldn't even be able to compare Sergio Martinez's recent wins to Mayweather's, right?

And you don't even respond to the part about Paul Williams. Why is that? And as of this point next month, Sergio will have stepped in the ring with him twice. I'm sorry but that garners respect. I just want to see Floyd fight Williams once.

What you are telling me is that Shane Mosley/Juan Manuel Marquez/Ricky Hatton are tougher fights than Paul Williams? Seriously? Shane wouldn't even fight Paul Williams.

This whole argument is besides the point of the post. But, before we finish it, Taeth, who do you want to see Floyd fight if it isn't Pacquiao (who for the record, I think he would beat)?
10-27-2010, 05:36 PM
killersheep

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0james0

Unless he has simply thought fuck the catch weight? Maybe he just plans on coming in heavier and paying the penalty.

Unlikely, but could be

Martinez has never struggled with weight. In the Williams Martinez fight he rehydrated about 6lbs and in the Pavlik fight it was even less.

I can lose 12 lbs of water weight in a day, and I weight 145. A professional athlete and I had to lose 20lbs in 4 weeks, that makes it come down to about 2lbs a week, which is a lot more doable.

Martinez is not like Mayweather. A fighter who lures a Featherweight to "catchweight Welter" and bends the scales while laughing it off. I mean that was about the lowest you can go in my book. He's no better than Joan Guzman.

Martinez has character, and he shows up to work with his gloves because they make him wear them. They still gotta remind Mayweather to take his wife-beater (for you brits this is a style of shirt for us cookie americans. just watch the jersey shore. That's all the guys wear) off I guess when goes anywhere....

I am shocked more people are not excited about this fight. This is my second fight I am going to this year. Last was Martinez-Pavlik. He won a lot of fans that night. He's my favorite champ right now. Who will he NOT fight??? Tell you this much. He'd beat mayweather's ass to a pulp.

Mayweather would destroy Martinez... Who are you trying to kid? Martinez plays everything off just speed, he never sits on his punches, he literally relies on athleticism more than Roy Jones or Gamboa, but he doesn't have their instincts or skill. Mayweather would absolutely pick him apart. Both Williams and Martinez are way too highly ranked, and given way too much credit. I do think they are really talented fighters, but Paul WIlliams is no Hearns caliber tall guy he just a tall good athlete who throws and lot of arm punches and is wide open defenisvely, and Martinez is no Mayweather, Pacquiao level speed guy. He has none of the killer instinct, power, and combinations of Pacquiao, and none of Mayweather's defensive genius, instincts, and timing.

I disagree that Martinez is too highly ranked. Martinez beat the middleweight champion of the world at the same time he was holding the junior middleweight champion belt. He has fought prime versions of Cintron, Williams, Pavlik, Williams II in his last four fights. He fought Williams when most people said Williams was the most feared fighter on the planet. Shane and Floyd wouldn't fight Williams. Even Pavlik, whether his reason to not fight was true, wouldn't fight him.

Think about it. Mayweather has fought Ricky Hatton who regularly fought at 140 (at 147), Marquez who regularly fought at 130-135 (at 147), and a 38-year old Shane Mosley (personally, I think it was a good win). You tell me: What's the tougher competition? Maybe Mayweather is better, but we can both agree he could do more to show it.

Lastly, explain why you think Mayweather would beat Williams when Mayweather himself has been on record saying he thinks Williams is too big to fight? I don't have the time to listen to it all right now, but it's somewhere in the Ra the Rugged Man interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjmTfsjLXIA

Marquez and Mosley were ranked 2nd, and 3rd p4p, and are way better fights than Cintron and Pavlik regardless of age. Hell a 44 or 45 year old Hopkins kicked the crap out of Pavlik, and Pavlik had a hard time going back down to 160. He was never that special to begin with. Cintron? He is a good fighter, but not p4p type guy, and certainly not a guy that would give Mayweather half the trouble he gave Martinez in that fight, I don't think he deserved a draw let alone being allowed to complete the fight, but he was giving Martinez problems in some parts of that fight.

Back to Mayweather's opposition, Marquez was smaller but Mayweather was naturally about a weightclass above Marquez, Marquez didn't try to become a welterweight in size, he tried to use speeda against Mayweather who outsped and outboxed him.Floyd didn't use size in this fight, and he wasn't that much bigger maybe an inch and a half taller and 4 pounds heavier. Also FLoyd hadn't fought in almost 2 years.

Hatton started his career 10 pounds north of Floyd, and was naturally the bigger man, Floyd is a blown up super featherweight, he is still pretty lanky, and even Marquez had bigger bicepts, chest, and thighs than Mayweather. Hatton was much naturally stronger than Floyd, and you could see in the ring how he always backed Floyd up, and how a few times he moved Floyd around with relative ease.

Mosley, Everyone was bitching about Floyd not facing Mosley or Pacquiao when he first came back, but after his comeback fight Floyd fought the best WW in the world, the guy who destroyed Margarito(a guy who ko'ed Martinez).

YOu said that Mayweather can do a better job proving his greatness? Besides Pacquiao then who next, Floyd's last 4 opponents read De La Hoya(not weight drained), Hatton, Marquez, Mosley. Give the guy a break.

There is no real way to rationalize the Marquez fight other than to say that he needed a warm-up after being retired. Before Floyd, Marquez had never fought at 140, let alone 147. To say that he didn't use his size, is blatently wrong. He didn't use his size like Kiltscho, but he used his size to maintain range and counter punch. It's still using his size. And even then, he didn't come in at the contracted weight. He came in 2 pounds heavier. If size wasn't an issue, why didn't he make 145? And now what is Marquez doing - he is fighting at 135! 12 pounds less than when he fought Floyd. Seriously, Floyd got flack for that fight and there was a reason for it.

Certainly, Marquez and Mosley are better p4p fighters than Pavlik. But, Marquez is a natural jr. lightweight/lightweight. It's like saying that Chad Dawson would get more credit for beating Paul Williams/Sergio Martinez (top middleweights and p4p fighters) than a lesser guy at 175, like say Zsolt Erdei. It doesn't make any sense. Sure, Marquez is great, but at 135, not 147. I'll say this, I pick Andre Berto etc. to knock out Marquez with ease at 147, but Marquez may have better boxing skills on the whole. Make sense?

Now, the Shane Mosley fight was a legit win. Credit due.

Ricky Hatton was not in anyway the force at 147 that he was at 140. Don't get me wrong, Floyd would have beat him at 140 too. But, I would have given Floyd more credit for beating Ricky at the weight he had been best at. Didn't Collazo basically beat Hatton, and Collazo is not even a top, top welterweight.

One more thing, a 44-year old Hopkins beat Pavlik at 170. Not at 160. Don't forget that. Pavlik was the linear middleweight world champion. Sergio beat him. You probably know the sport's history better than I do, Taeth, has Floyd ever beat a linear champion? When Sergio fought Pavlik, Pavlik had never been beat at 160. I take a win over Pavlik at Pavlik's natural weight as comparable to a win over Hatton or Marquez. Here's the thing, Floyd is the p4p best in the world. Martinez isn't. There isn't a debate on that point. So, really, if you think about it, you shouldn't even be able to compare Sergio Martinez's recent wins to Mayweather's, right?

And you don't even respond to the part about Paul Williams. Why is that? And as of this point next month, Sergio will have stepped in the ring with him twice. I'm sorry but that garners respect. I just want to see Floyd fight Williams once.

What you are telling me is that Shane Mosley/Juan Manuel Marquez/Ricky Hatton are tougher fights than Paul Williams? Seriously? Shane wouldn't even fight Paul Williams.

This whole argument is besides the point of the post. But, before we finish it, Taeth, who do you want to see Floyd fight if it isn't Pacquiao (who for the record, I think he would beat)?

Floyd beat Baldomachina when he was the lineal WW champ................................carry on.
10-27-2010, 06:15 PM
Taeth

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Killersheep, Baldomir was the linear champ at 147, As was Castillo at 135, and Floyd won the linear championship at 130 by beating Hernandez and Corrales. Who knows where the linear WW belt is now, I believe Berto holds the belt after Floyd gave it up, but Cotto sort became the official WW champ after he beat Mosley, then Margarito then Mosley again, and then Floyd beat him.

Hatton was better at 140 perhaps, but perhaps not, he looked bad going back down against Urango, and honestly southpaws give him a lot of trouble, I think it was more of Collazo being a really good southpaw then Hatton being any worse. His style has no defense against the right hook counter punch when he comes in. Also Mayweather isn't as good at 147 as he was at 130, how can he? He is older, he bulked up, and he has way less power p4p than he used to. He has made up for it by continually improving his game, but Hatton was far closer to his best weight than Floyd was, and the heavier they went the more of advantage Hatton would have because less speed and more strength would play into his favor. At 140 Floyd had way faster feet and would have probably beaten Hatton easier. Also size makes your chin a little better, and those right hands he landed against HAtton might have stopped him earlier at a lighter weight.

I think the only brush against Marquez at 147 is that he fought Mayweather, after watching Adamek's run at heavyweight, I honestly think Marquez would do way better against any other welterweight including Pacquiao than he did against Mayweather, and Floyd barely had a height advantage. How many times have you seen a guy use a one inch height advantage so effectively? That isn't like Klitschko facing a guy 4 inches shorter. Also FLoyd didn't use a lot of range, actually watch how close his upper body was to Marquez, he uses deceptive stances to make it seem like he is farther away because his base is so wide, but he was actually quite close to Marquez the entire fight. It was just he was beating Marquez to the punch time after time, that is speed not size that he was using. It was very similar to how he fought Mosley.

Paul Williams isn't worth mentioning, Mosley only didn't fight Paul because he wanted a fight with the money makers and known names in the sport like Mayweather and Pacquiao or Berto who has gotten more attention than Paul has. Paul is a decent fighter, but nothing special he was easily outboxed by Quintana, he is a tall sloppy guy, who can't use his range to save his life. IMO his only impressive fight was against Margarito. WInky was way past it and hadn't fought in forever, Cintron looked pretty good against WIlliams until he got hurt, I felt Martinez already beat Williams, and Paul landed a good punch on Quintana, but that was unusual and perhaps lucky on his part, becaue Quintana was clearly faster and a better boxer who had no problems with his height. FIghting one guy in Paul Williams doesn't define you as a fighter. I think the people who really know the sport know that he is no Thomas Hearns. People just see a physical freak, and forget about how it's packaged. He reminds me of the Lesnar of the welterweight division.
10-27-2010, 06:27 PM
Spicoli

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Telling ya,weights are incidental for this one. Its unfortunately becoming more common with catch weight crap'olla. Sacrafice enough greenbacks and they will both wink and nod. I expect Williams to come in the ring well north of agreed number 'unofficially'. Martinez won't melt away and it'll still come off. More and more I think Martinez wins this via bloody and standing TKO on Williams in the late rounds. Great rematch and should see many fireworks before its all said and done.

Why is that the case if Williams is already at 162?

Can someone explain to me (because I don't know) is dropping 19 pounds in a month before a fight easy to do? Is it done regularly?

I just think any fight entered into these days as a catchweight is open to tweeking. Wouldn't shock me if they switch up official weights last minute, whatever penalties it may mean and no doubt both fatten up after weigh in just a bit. The coming off was refering to fight actually happening regardless.
10-27-2010, 06:35 PM
Rantcatrat

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taeth

Killersheep, Baldomir was the linear champ at 147, As was Castillo at 135, and Floyd won the linear championship at 130 by beating Hernandez and Corrales. Who knows where the linear WW belt is now, I believe Berto holds the belt after Floyd gave it up, but Cotto sort became the official WW champ after he beat Mosley, then Margarito then Mosley again, and then Floyd beat him.

Hatton was better at 140 perhaps, but perhaps not, he looked bad going back down against Urango, and honestly southpaws give him a lot of trouble, I think it was more of Collazo being a really good southpaw then Hatton being any worse. His style has no defense against the right hook counter punch when he comes in. Also Mayweather isn't as good at 147 as he was at 130, how can he? He is older, he bulked up, and he has way less power p4p than he used to. He has made up for it by continually improving his game, but Hatton was far closer to his best weight than Floyd was, and the heavier they went the more of advantage Hatton would have because less speed and more strength would play into his favor. At 140 Floyd had way faster feet and would have probably beaten Hatton easier. Also size makes your chin a little better, and those right hands he landed against HAtton might have stopped him earlier at a lighter weight.

I think the only brush against Marquez at 147 is that he fought Mayweather, after watching Adamek's run at heavyweight, I honestly think Marquez would do way better against any other welterweight including Pacquiao than he did against Mayweather, and Floyd barely had a height advantage. How many times have you seen a guy use a one inch height advantage so effectively? That isn't like Klitschko facing a guy 4 inches shorter. Also FLoyd didn't use a lot of range, actually watch how close his upper body was to Marquez, he uses deceptive stances to make it seem like he is farther away because his base is so wide, but he was actually quite close to Marquez the entire fight. It was just he was beating Marquez to the punch time after time, that is speed not size that he was using. It was very similar to how he fought Mosley.

Paul Williams isn't worth mentioning, Mosley only didn't fight Paul because he wanted a fight with the money makers and known names in the sport like Mayweather and Pacquiao or Berto who has gotten more attention than Paul has. Paul is a decent fighter, but nothing special he was easily outboxed by Quintana, he is a tall sloppy guy, who can't use his range to save his life. IMO his only impressive fight was against Margarito. WInky was way past it and hadn't fought in forever, Cintron looked pretty good against WIlliams until he got hurt, I felt Martinez already beat Williams, and Paul landed a good punch on Quintana, but that was unusual and perhaps lucky on his part, becaue Quintana was clearly faster and a better boxer who had no problems with his height. FIghting one guy in Paul Williams doesn't define you as a fighter. I think the people who really know the sport know that he is no Thomas Hearns. People just see a physical freak, and forget about how it's packaged. He reminds me of the Lesnar of the welterweight division.

I thought Shane was a real challenge, but I was a little bit thrown off by Shane's weak performance against Mora. I can't lie. I thought it was a comeback fight to put him in the mix for aPacquiao fight. It was strange he looked so bad against Mora who I don't rate highly. Makes you wonder how much was left in the tank when he fought Floyd.

Listen, Floyd looked spectacular against Marquez with his defensive posture and his speed, but was that surprising? The thing is I would have given Floyd more credit for fighting Cotto, Berto, Williams at 147, Martinez at 154, etc. than fighting Marquez at 147. We can agree to disagree. It is all good. It's an old argument that I'm tired of to be honest. The bottom line is I would like Floyd to face more challenges. I just want to see Floyd fight the best and show off the skills you speak of. Prove beyond a doubt that he is one of the greatest ever. Why wouldn't I? Do me a favor, answer me this, who do you want to see Floyd fight next besides Pacquiao?
10-28-2010, 12:21 AM
Taeth

Re: One month out and Martinez is 176 pounds....meanwhile Williams is at 162

I would like to see Floyd fight Cotto most, I honestly think Cotto would present the most interesting challenge because IMO Cotto was out boxing Pacquiao early, and out timed MOsley for the most part, I know he doesn't have the durability anymore, but I think Floyd's lack of power would make this a fight where Cotto could fight more like he used to. THen again based on his Foreman fight, and even before that I think Floyd would handle him easily.

AFter that I would like to see Floyd fight the guy who wins the 140 arguement or Berto. I am not saying I think Berto is better than Williams or Martinez, but I think it's a more interesting fight because honestly I see nothing WIlliams or Martinez could offer to trouble Floyd. At least Berto has that insane speed and combination punching that he lets loose from time to time.

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