Ortiz has been a welterweight fighting at jr welter the last couple times out. He'll be a solid welter, don't think size is an issue here, speed might be though.
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Ortiz has been a welterweight fighting at jr welter the last couple times out. He'll be a solid welter, don't think size is an issue here, speed might be though.
Bailey isn't elite by any stretch and has had some poor showings, your dead right, and a couple of those fights if he was top top, then he would have done way better. No way did he get "knocked the fuck out" by Urango, he got ground down to the body and couldn't take any more, I don't see Berto having that good a body work. Bailey has good skill and moves well and with one of the best beautiful straight rights inthe business to get through a less than stellar Berto defense. Ishe smith is a good good fighter, and absolutely no shame in losing to Cotto, as most other have.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
umm Berto dominated and man handled the last guy to knock Bailey the fuck out in Urango, what has Randall Bailey done at a world stage to prove that at 36 he'll be a threat to a top rated fight in Berto? hell who the hell has Bailey ever beaten of note period, his biggest win is a 8 round UD against a shot Demarcus Corley to whom he had already lost to, he couldn't be Ngoudjo who was like 15-1 at the time and that was his last decent showing, Ortiz packs more power than Urango IMO and Berto would be on him and overwhelm him, in short if Bailey fought either guy he'd get KTFOQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianKidding fine sir I am not. Berto and Ortiz have done nothing to nail it on that they would wreck Bailey. Berto, aside from stopping Quintana, does nothing to impress me at all, and Ortiz, first drop from Bailey would have his heart fall out of his arse. He already straight up quit once.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesare you kidding me? i'm not high on Berto what so ever, but Ortiz would ruin Bailey at this stage as would Berto, Randall Bailey has always been chinny and easy to find, he's nothing more than a B level fighter with loads of power but no chin or stamina to match, if Urango knocked him the fuck out, Ortiz and Berto would wreck the guy badlyQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianNot so sure about that one El............Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Berto won't be fighting Bailey or someone like Aydin anytime soon I wouldn't say, he'd get sparked by both IMO.
I like Bailey, especially at welterweight where he's not starvin, and I like hin to quake the boots of Berto.
the biggest names on his record all have one thing in common they're all on the L part of his record, Cotto, Corley, Smith, and Urango
The only guy Ortiz has wrecked at a decent level is a well well over the hill Vivian Harris, no way he wrecks Bailey, can't have that. Plus he creeped to a draw (what was really a win by a couple of points) against Peterson. Berto hugged the life out of Urango and did not, IMO, dominate. I just can't accept that Berto is Elite, he got beat, IMO, by Collazo for damns sake. I really want to see Bailey fight Berto now..... If Berto was "Elite" and a wrecker, no way he would have jumped ship on the Mosley fight and absolutely no way in hell would he have fought Freddy Hernandez in his last fight.
To be honest, I don't really see what we'll learn from Berto and Ortiz fighting each other. I don't rate either of them highly.
Ortiz also dominated (although aged) Nate Campbell, and i wouldn't really rate Bailey much higher than Harris or Campbell, as for power, Ortiz sparked a usually durable Maussa in one roundQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianBailey isn't elite by any stretch and has had some poor showings, your dead right, and a couple of those fights if he was top top, then he would have done way better. No way did he get "knocked the fuck out" by Urango, he got ground down to the body and couldn't take any more, I don't see Berto having that good a body work. Bailey has good skill and moves well and with one of the best beautiful straight rights inthe business to get through a less than stellar Berto defense. Ishe smith is a good good fighter, and absolutely no shame in losing to Cotto, as most other have.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesumm Berto dominated and man handled the last guy to knock Bailey the fuck out in Urango, what has Randall Bailey done at a world stage to prove that at 36 he'll be a threat to a top rated fight in Berto? hell who the hell has Bailey ever beaten of note period, his biggest win is a 8 round UD against a shot Demarcus Corley to whom he had already lost to, he couldn't be Ngoudjo who was like 15-1 at the time and that was his last decent showing, Ortiz packs more power than Urango IMO and Berto would be on him and overwhelm him, in short if Bailey fought either guy he'd get KTFOQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianKidding fine sir I am not. Berto and Ortiz have done nothing to nail it on that they would wreck Bailey. Berto, aside from stopping Quintana, does nothing to impress me at all, and Ortiz, first drop from Bailey would have his heart fall out of his arse. He already straight up quit once.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesare you kidding me? i'm not high on Berto what so ever, but Ortiz would ruin Bailey at this stage as would Berto, Randall Bailey has always been chinny and easy to find, he's nothing more than a B level fighter with loads of power but no chin or stamina to match, if Urango knocked him the fuck out, Ortiz and Berto would wreck the guy badlyQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianNot so sure about that one El............Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Berto won't be fighting Bailey or someone like Aydin anytime soon I wouldn't say, he'd get sparked by both IMO.
I like Bailey, especially at welterweight where he's not starvin, and I like hin to quake the boots of Berto.
the biggest names on his record all have one thing in common they're all on the L part of his record, Cotto, Corley, Smith, and Urango
The only guy Ortiz has wrecked at a decent level is a well well over the hill Vivian Harris, no way he wrecks Bailey, can't have that. Plus he creeped to a draw (what was really a win by a couple of points) against Peterson. Berto hugged the life out of Urango and did not, IMO, dominate. I just can't accept that Berto is Elite, he got beat, IMO, by Collazo for damns sake. I really want to see Bailey fight Berto now..... If Berto was "Elite" and a wrecker, no way he would have jumped ship on the Mosley fight and absolutely no way in hell would he have fought Freddy Hernandez in his last fight.
To be honest, I don't really see what we'll learn from Berto and Ortiz fighting each other. I don't rate either of them highly.
Berto didn't "jump ship" he had a valid reason for bowing out of the Mosley fight, he had just lost a number of relatives in the earthquake in Haita, hell he didn't even know if his own sister was alive, so nice try there, again i'm not even a Berto fan, i bash him when it's necessary and also don't think he's as good as some make him out to be, but he's a hell of a lot better than Randall fucking Bailey as is Victor Ortiz
I totally know about the disaster in Haiti, mistake me not. Doesn't seem to have been in a super rush to get back in there with osely though hey. Hernandez, i'll say t again..... Someone doesn't have faith in him, whether its himself or his team......Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesOrtiz also dominated (although aged) Nate Campbell, and i wouldn't really rate Bailey much higher than Harris or Campbell, as for power, Ortiz sparked a usually durable Maussa in one roundQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianBailey isn't elite by any stretch and has had some poor showings, your dead right, and a couple of those fights if he was top top, then he would have done way better. No way did he get "knocked the fuck out" by Urango, he got ground down to the body and couldn't take any more, I don't see Berto having that good a body work. Bailey has good skill and moves well and with one of the best beautiful straight rights inthe business to get through a less than stellar Berto defense. Ishe smith is a good good fighter, and absolutely no shame in losing to Cotto, as most other have.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesumm Berto dominated and man handled the last guy to knock Bailey the fuck out in Urango, what has Randall Bailey done at a world stage to prove that at 36 he'll be a threat to a top rated fight in Berto? hell who the hell has Bailey ever beaten of note period, his biggest win is a 8 round UD against a shot Demarcus Corley to whom he had already lost to, he couldn't be Ngoudjo who was like 15-1 at the time and that was his last decent showing, Ortiz packs more power than Urango IMO and Berto would be on him and overwhelm him, in short if Bailey fought either guy he'd get KTFOQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianKidding fine sir I am not. Berto and Ortiz have done nothing to nail it on that they would wreck Bailey. Berto, aside from stopping Quintana, does nothing to impress me at all, and Ortiz, first drop from Bailey would have his heart fall out of his arse. He already straight up quit once.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesare you kidding me? i'm not high on Berto what so ever, but Ortiz would ruin Bailey at this stage as would Berto, Randall Bailey has always been chinny and easy to find, he's nothing more than a B level fighter with loads of power but no chin or stamina to match, if Urango knocked him the fuck out, Ortiz and Berto would wreck the guy badlyQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMagicianNot so sure about that one El............Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Berto won't be fighting Bailey or someone like Aydin anytime soon I wouldn't say, he'd get sparked by both IMO.
I like Bailey, especially at welterweight where he's not starvin, and I like hin to quake the boots of Berto.
the biggest names on his record all have one thing in common they're all on the L part of his record, Cotto, Corley, Smith, and Urango
The only guy Ortiz has wrecked at a decent level is a well well over the hill Vivian Harris, no way he wrecks Bailey, can't have that. Plus he creeped to a draw (what was really a win by a couple of points) against Peterson. Berto hugged the life out of Urango and did not, IMO, dominate. I just can't accept that Berto is Elite, he got beat, IMO, by Collazo for damns sake. I really want to see Bailey fight Berto now..... If Berto was "Elite" and a wrecker, no way he would have jumped ship on the Mosley fight and absolutely no way in hell would he have fought Freddy Hernandez in his last fight.
To be honest, I don't really see what we'll learn from Berto and Ortiz fighting each other. I don't rate either of them highly.
Berto didn't "jump ship" he had a valid reason for bowing out of the Mosley fight, he had just lost a number of relatives in the earthquake in Haita, hell he didn't even know if his own sister was alive, so nice try there, again i'm not even a Berto fan, i bash him when it's necessary and also don't think he's as good as some make him out to be, but he's a hell of a lot better than Randall fucking Bailey as is Victor Ortiz
Funny thing is, we'll probably never find out about Bailey. Lets just agree to disagree. Your more than likely more knowledgeable on Berto and Ortiz than me so i'll bow to the more thorough explanation you provided. Until then, Berto vs Ortiz shows people absolutely fuck all in my humble opinion.......
If I'm not mistaken I think for Ortiz's last 3 fights he came in the ring between 154-156 lbs. That's quite a junior welter, Berto is slightly bigger but Ortiz isnt going to be dwarfed here.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
Totally agree, both are really good guys. Winner here should get a superfight somewhere:cool:(This fight if it happens is a superfight already, more explosive than Alexander-Bradley IMO)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Why doesnt he fight his mandatory that he's been putting off? The turkish guy, Aydin, he's chapped his names not even in the mix. I dont know how Randall Bailey leapfrogged him, now Ortiz I can understand a bit.
Don't know if anyone has read this already.....Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Selcuk Aydin: "Berto can’t fight Ortiz – he has to face me now!"
Ortiz is much better match-up for Berto than Bailey. Berto won't look as good in the ring with someone that moves. Ortiz should look much better at 147. This is a good fight. I hope it happens.
thing is who has Aykin fought? no one
This could be competitive early, but I think Berto will likely stop or badly hurt Ortiz. I honestly can't rank Ortiz higher than guys like Quintana or Collazo. I think he may hit harder, but both him and berto don't seem to be able to really implement their assets really effectively. They can both be technical fighters, Berto is blistering fast, and Ortiz is pretty quick himself. They both hit really hard, yet they can't seem to really "control" a fight. I just see Berto being a better athlete and a toughter guy mentally. I mean he's been through way more than Ortiz and he's the more talented fighter. It seems like Golden Boy is throwing ORtiz to the wolves.
That literraly could be said about every single fighter ever before they stepped up. He deserves his shot and should get it, he stepped aside once already. . You say who has he fought, well other than collazo and quintana who the hell has berto fought? Sorry urango at147 doesn't count. I mean who had martinez fought up till 2 years ago???Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
what i mean though is who has Aykin fought to be ranked so highly, he hasn't even really fought B level fighters, so who's to say he deserves a shot at any title? it was Berto and i called his WBC title win a complete farce and still stand by itQuote:
Originally Posted by arminThat literraly could be said about every single fighter ever before they stepped up. He deserves his shot and should get it, he stepped aside once already. . You say who has he fought, well other than collazo and quintana who the hell has berto fought? Sorry urango at147 doesn't count. I mean who had martinez fought up till 2 years ago???Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Well morales you have a good point there but like ya said berto had done jack all to merit his shot, its their rankings and if berto wants to hang on to his trinket he should have to defend it against his mandatory...
"Once you quit, it's easier to quit the second time"
- Freddie Roach
Berto by TKO