Well i kinda over Haye really been waiting a long time for him to do somthing. Pretty much all he has done it beat the giant and hell a fucking grandpa Holyfeild did that.
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Well i kinda over Haye really been waiting a long time for him to do somthing. Pretty much all he has done it beat the giant and hell a fucking grandpa Holyfeild did that.
I don't think Eddie would likely win, like somebody said on here, he has incredibly fast hands maybe faster than Haye's, but Haye is more of a fighter with a lot more powerful and general athleticism. He jump in and still get power, he is a more dynamic counter puncher... I think Eddie has a decent chance, but he is just outgunned for the most part, but not like he was against Wladimir even if this fight were to end quicker.
Haye by late KO, Haye is not that crap.
Neither is Eddie Chambers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I think you guys are seriously underestimating him
He has wins at heavyweight that rival David Hayes.
Calvin Brock, Sam Peter, Alexander Dimitrenko
All three imo are better opponents than Valuev, Barret, Ruiz and Harrison.
Chambers has been in with proven heavyweight opposition.
He was within a minute of going the distance with Wladimir Klitschko.
I really don't see anything in David Haye that suggests to me he's going to have an easy time with Chambers.
The only guys to beat him are Wlad, who I think most of us agree would beat Haye, and Povetkin, a fighter with one of the best workrates in the division.
Haye doesn't have a high workrate like Povetkin and unusually for him he has no advantage in speed. He will seek to trade and exchange with Chambers who might well beat him to the punch and school him.
Carl Froch did it to Abraham. Haye's power is overated as is his record.
I think if Eddie believes he can win this one.
I also belive Eddie believes he can win but if these's one thing about Haye that you cant overrate, it's his power.
Eddie's chin is sturdy enough to take a few pops from haye, has decent enough defense to block a lot of em. No way would this be an easy fight for haye and it would actually be his best win at heavy if he pulled it off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
By a large margin imo. I think it would be the toughest fight of his career. Enzo was shit, Mormeck was finished by Bell, his heavyweight opp has been terrible.
Haye's resume is one of the poorest for any top level fighter imo. It's like Donaire's resume if take off Montiel and Darchinyan.
If Chambers has the self belief he takes Haye imo.
Bilbo, all that tosh you've wrote may well be true (apart from the "Haye's power is overrated" bit, that is clearly ridiculous, have you ever seen him NOT hurt someone?) but however overrated and crap Haye is, you can't deny he is a P4P certainty using your methods.
He cleaned out the cruiserweight division knocking out all his closest rivals, then stepped up a division to become a two weight "world" champion and remains unbeaten. That means he has risen to the top end of 2000 fighters. A win against Wlad puts him where? No.1? Donaire's equal?
You must currently rank him well above Froch, right?
Actually you are correct. In the past I have argued that acording to the criteria he is a p4p fighter. Go back a few months and you will see such threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
However my personal assessment of him (which unlike you I do not let cloud my judgement when deciding p4p) is that his wins have been greatly over estimated.
Valuev was beaten 4 times prior to facing Haye, by Larry Donald, John Ruiz, Ruslan Chagaev and Evander Holyfield. He kept his belt because he was over 7ft tall, not because he beat those guys.
There's a whole queue of guys who have knocked out Enzo harder than Haye did, Bell demolished Mormeck, Tua demolished Ruiz., Causer demolished Barrett.
Haye hits hard, no question. But so does Miranda, Sam Peter, Chris Arreola, Artur Abraham etc. In the end though, when they came up against guys who weren't afraid and could fight, their power didn't mean a whole lot.
This is what I think will happen to Haye.
But, I don't let my personal assessment cloud my p4p rankings and don't disagree with you regarding potential p4p status. Critieria trumps personal opinion every time and my previous threads over the past year will confirm that.
Oh and yeah I wouldnt argue against him being rated above Froch.
Great stuff!
Haye is toilet. Fact. However, he is also one of the very best boxers on earth. Fact.
A fighter that is overrated, basically crap, has a terrible resume and no skills to speak of is a bombproof 100% P4P certainty. Interesting.
This sounds like a solid clash of styles. Naturally I would have to go with the boxer here. Eddie would outbox,and counter the hell out of Haye between those big looping shots. Haye would have to catch Eddie early and he has a shot otherwise after about five rounds it's easy pickings for Eddie.
Fenster, a lot of times I agree with you about your p4p arguments, but I don't agree with you about Haye at all. I believe that Chambers would be the best win on Haye's record thus far in his career by far. You say he cleaned out the cruiserweight division, but the division at that time was horrible. What was his best win at cruiserweight? Mormeck? Enzo (hah!)? Fraggomeni? Honestly, Haye's biggest win in his whole career was over Valuev. Eddie's wins over Sam Peters, Calvin Brock, and Alex Dimitrenko are as good as Haye's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Oh and Froch has a much better resume p4p than Haye. Froch's wins over Dirrell, Abraham and Pascal are better than the best Haye win.
When we are talking p4p, Adamek's resume is better. He was a champ at 175. He beat the best cruiserweight in the world in Cunningham at 200 - better than any of Haye's wins in his whole career. He then beat Arreola at heavyweight. I rank Arreola higher than Valuev, Harrison, and John Ruiz. Well, maybe not Valuev, but at least on par with Valuev.
My post was specifically aimed at Bilbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratFenster, a lot of times I agree with you about your p4p arguments, but I don't agree with you about Haye at all. I believe that Chambers would be the best win on Haye's record thus far in his career by far. You say he cleaned out the cruiserweight division, but the division at that time was horrible. What was his best win at cruiserweight? Mormeck? Enzo (hah!)? Fraggomeni? Honestly, Haye's biggest win in his whole career was over Valuev. Eddie's wins over Sam Peters, Calvin Brock, and Alex Dimitrenko are as good as Haye's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Oh and Froch has a much better resume p4p than Haye. Froch's wins over Dirrell, Abraham and Pascal are better than the best Haye win.
When we are talking p4p, Adamek's resume is better. He was a champ at 175. He beat the best cruiserweight in the world in Cunningham at 200 - better than any of Haye's wins in his whole career. He then beat Arreola at heavyweight. I rank Arreola higher than Valuev, Harrison, and John Ruiz. Well, maybe not Valuev, but at least on par with Valuev.
I agree with most of what you've written. Don't agree Valuev is a better opponent than Mormeck, Enzo (ha!) or Fraggomeni though. Only his size stopped Haye from sparking him in a round. And don't agree Adamek's win over Cunningham is better than anything Haye did. What makes Cunningham better than the lineal champion Mormeck or even WBO champion Enzo? Remember Enzo hadn't been sparked by everyman and his dog when Haye fought him.
1. I don't think Haye is a P4P candidate.
2. Not only is Froch's resume light-years better than Haye's, I believe Froch would kill him if matched P4P, although Haye does have a punchers chance against anyone.
;)
You say that. I laugh and nod my head in agreement. But then i remember that Wlad is fighting Chisora.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong