Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Shame on Pac and his team if true, haven't they tried to screw the public enough with recent matchups? Cheato who didn't deserve another big fight, old man Mosley and now a way bloated Marquez?
Fight him at 140 you graceless clowns. He goes up and you go down. Stop making a mockery of the sport. Anything to steal massive advantages over an opponent who knows how to outbox you but is older and has no track record above 135. :rolleyes:
I thought you were against catchweights? So shouldn't JMM challenge Pac at the full WW limit? I remember you being critical of Pac fighting Cotto at 145, saying Pac shouldn't be weight draining fighters. So shouldn't the same standard be held for JMM on not trying to weight drain Pac?;)
140 is a legitimate weight class.
Manny is not a full WW as evidenced by his weigh ins and what his team says and Marquez is a much smaller LW. Are you telling me that you think Manny would be weight drained coming in at 140? Well, what about it also seeing Marquez fight an entire division outside his current division?
It isn't fair to have Manny come down to 135 and it isn't fair to expect Marquez to become a fully fledged WW.
140 makes complete sense.
No, all I'm saying is that be consistent. Didn't you say that if a fighter wants to challenge another fighter do it at their best and no catch weights right? Didn't you say that Pacquiao shouldn't have weight drain Oscar at 147 or any other fighter? And isn't 147 the full welterweight limit? So by your logic shouldn't JMM not drag Pac down and fight him at his optimum best with no catchweights? ;)
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
140 would be ideal but I guess Pac and his promotors make the calls , He's the king so no wonder he would be trying to pick up advantages . If JMM weighs in at 145, I just see him getting ko'd in the latter rounds
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Manny Pacquiao fighting at a catchweight that suits him alot more than it suits his opponant!?!?!?!
Wow what a TOTAL shocker!
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
...marquez could fight pac 10 times. And he'll loose 11 of them. He could drink god's pee and it wouldn't help. Pac is ten times better now than he was when he beat him back then.
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Shame on Pac and his team if true, haven't they tried to screw the public enough with recent matchups? Cheato who didn't deserve another big fight, old man Mosley and now a way bloated Marquez?
Fight him at 140 you graceless clowns. He goes up and you go down. Stop making a mockery of the sport. Anything to steal massive advantages over an opponent who knows how to outbox you but is older and has no track record above 135. :rolleyes:
I thought you were against catchweights? So shouldn't JMM challenge Pac at the full WW limit? I remember you being critical of Pac fighting Cotto at 145, saying Pac shouldn't be weight draining fighters. So shouldn't the same standard be held for JMM on not trying to weight drain Pac?;)
140 is a legitimate weight class.
Manny is not a full WW as evidenced by his weigh ins and what his team says and Marquez is a much smaller LW. Are you telling me that you think Manny would be weight drained coming in at 140? Well, what about it also seeing Marquez fight an entire division outside his current division?
It isn't fair to have Manny come down to 135 and it isn't fair to expect Marquez to become a fully fledged WW.
140 makes complete sense.
No, all I'm saying is that be consistent. Didn't you say that if a fighter wants to challenge another fighter do it at their best and no catch weights right? Didn't you say that Pacquiao shouldn't have weight drain Oscar at 147 or any other fighter? And isn't 147 the full welterweight limit? So by your logic shouldn't JMM not drag Pac down and fight him at his optimum best with no catchweights? ;)
i think he got you miles. lol
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Shame on Pac and his team if true, haven't they tried to screw the public enough with recent matchups? Cheato who didn't deserve another big fight, old man Mosley and now a way bloated Marquez?
Fight him at 140 you graceless clowns. He goes up and you go down. Stop making a mockery of the sport. Anything to steal massive advantages over an opponent who knows how to outbox you but is older and has no track record above 135. :rolleyes:
I thought you were against catchweights? So shouldn't JMM challenge Pac at the full WW limit? I remember you being critical of Pac fighting Cotto at 145, saying Pac shouldn't be weight draining fighters. So shouldn't the same standard be held for JMM on not trying to weight drain Pac?;)
140 is a legitimate weight class.
Manny is not a full WW as evidenced by his weigh ins and what his team says and Marquez is a much smaller LW. Are you telling me that you think Manny would be weight drained coming in at 140? Well, what about it also seeing Marquez fight an entire division outside his current division?
It isn't fair to have Manny come down to 135 and it isn't fair to expect Marquez to become a fully fledged WW.
140 makes complete sense.
No, all I'm saying is that be consistent. Didn't you say that if a fighter wants to challenge another fighter do it at their best and no catch weights right? Didn't you say that Pacquiao shouldn't have weight drain Oscar at 147 or any other fighter? And isn't 147 the full welterweight limit? So by your logic shouldn't JMM not drag Pac down and fight him at his optimum best with no catchweights? ;)
GB and I dont always agree on things but on this I completely agree with him. Miles is inconsistent I've said this in the past about him as well.
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Manny had been weighing in the 144 - 145 3/4 range in his last 4 fights (last fight with Mosley at 145). A number of posters here are asking that he go down 5 lbs to 140 to accomodate Marquez. Juan Manuel had been fighting ideally in the 134- 135 range and can just gain 1-2 lbs to be within the same division (Super Lightweight) to fight Manny.
Oscar dela Hoya went down 5 lbs at 145 to fight Manny (Oscar's previous weight was 150 in his fight with Forbes). Manny gained 7 1/2 lbs at 142 to fight Oscar. And quite a number of posters here did not give Pacquiao credit in that fight after he dominated the Golden Boy. They focused on what weight Oscar lost and did not pay attention to what Manny needed to gain.
This is quite ironic. Those same posters who did not give Pac credit are the same people who does not see him going down 5 lbs as weight draining him. And JMM barely needs to gain any weight at all.
This is the reason why I don't see any logic in a third Pacquiao-Marquez fight. They don't belong to the same weight division anymore. If Floyd Mayweather is not willing to fight him, then it's time for Pacquiao to hang up his gloves.
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MMASUX
While 145 would be a disadvantage for JMM, you can't really expect Pac to come down to 135 or 140. Jmm also doesn't have to come in at 145 either, if he comes in at 140 i think he will be ok.
why is the weight limit a disadvantage
Pac vs Marquez II- weights of both guys when they got in the ring-March 2008
145 141
Pac vs Margarito- November 2010
148
Marquez vs Katsidis-November 2010
145
where is the weight disadvantage. When they were having to make 130 for the weigh in, Pac came into the ring 4 pounds heavier than Marquez (145 to 141). Late last year in separate fights, Pac weighed 148 in the ring, 3 pounds more than the 145 Marquez weighed in the ring against katsidis.
Where is the weight disadvantage???
realize Pac weighs in at 144 or 145 for his fights and then only weighs about 148 in the ring.
Brandon Rios-who weighs in at 135, weighs more in the damn ring during his fight than Pac does!!!
! Tim Bradley, Devon Alexander, Lucas Matthyse, Amir Kahn, -the guys at 140, weigh more in the ring during their fights than Pac does!!!!
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Shame on Pac and his team if true, haven't they tried to screw the public enough with recent matchups? Cheato who didn't deserve another big fight, old man Mosley and now a way bloated Marquez?
Fight him at 140 you graceless clowns. He goes up and you go down. Stop making a mockery of the sport. Anything to steal massive advantages over an opponent who knows how to outbox you but is older and has no track record above 135. :rolleyes:
I thought you were against catchweights? So shouldn't JMM challenge Pac at the full WW limit? I remember you being critical of Pac fighting Cotto at 145, saying Pac shouldn't be weight draining fighters. So shouldn't the same standard be held for JMM on not trying to weight drain Pac?;)
140 is a legitimate weight class.
Manny is not a full WW as evidenced by his weigh ins and what his team says and Marquez is a much smaller LW. Are you telling me that you think Manny would be weight drained coming in at 140? Well, what about it also seeing Marquez fight an entire division outside his current division?
It isn't fair to have Manny come down to 135 and it isn't fair to expect Marquez to become a fully fledged WW.
140 makes complete sense.
No, all I'm saying is that be consistent. Didn't you say that if a fighter wants to challenge another fighter do it at their best and no catch weights right? Didn't you say that Pacquiao shouldn't have weight drain Oscar at 147 or any other fighter? And isn't 147 the full welterweight limit? So by your logic shouldn't JMM not drag Pac down and fight him at his optimum best with no catchweights? ;)
Sure and on the whole I agree with the consistency argument. Tbh I don't have any massive issues with Pac/DLH because Pac was being asked to jump up an awful lot, but in return Oscar was willing to compromise at 147. They were meeting at a legitimate weight class. My issue comes with there being only a division between them and they are having to settle with 151 instead of 154 or 145 instead of 147. Either go up a weight class or you come down, as for who does it, I don't care.
When there is such a massive gulf as 135 to 147, it is practically impossible to make a fight fairly. It is only in such extreme cases as this that I think it only fair to settle on something like 140. These kinds of fights are quite the exception rather than the norm. I just don't think it fair to ask Marquez to go up to WW and likewise it would be unfair to make Manny go to 135. The only way to make a fight like this is 140, where both fighters are compromising. Or just don't bother with the fight.
140 is the only way to ensure nobody is getting all the advantages and it is of course a legitimate weight class, which I have a thing for respecting.
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales;9688[B
76]funny how now it's not fair to Pacquiao if he must drop in weight to face a "smaller" guy, yet it's fine for every other fighter to do it for him (Cotto at 145[/B], Margarito 150, asking Martinez to come down to 147 when he can't even make 154 anymore), oh but i forgot those cases are always "in the interest of fairness" or so that Pacquiao wont lose his "advantage", go down to at least 140 you fucking snob and give the guys that has given you hell twice (arguably beat you twice) a fair fight, he's more deserving than anybody else you've fought, as for bruceleroy's bullshit about Cotto wanting Manny more, that BS Manny asked Arum for Cotto right in MSG not even 5 minutes after Cotto beat Clottey :rolleyes:
Manny is agreeing 145 :rolleyes:
Seriously you are all a bunch of whiny bastards. Maybe Manny should have one arm tied behind his back or automatically forfeit the fight if it goes to decision?
You all moan like fuck how he weight drained guys by forcing them to drop weight and yet when he himself agrees to cut the same amount of his opponents did for him the weight is not enough, and he's still the one with an advantage.
Personally considering Marquez lost their last fight I think getting a third fight at all is a bonus for him, and negotiating Manny to drop 2 pounds is even sweeter.
If Marquez was a man surely he would challenge the champion in his own weight class, isn't that the way the logic is supposed to go? Except when Pac is involved it seems, then it his him who must bow to every demand and take every risk.
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Shame on Pac and his team if true, haven't they tried to screw the public enough with recent matchups? Cheato who didn't deserve another big fight, old man Mosley and now a way bloated Marquez?
Fight him at 140 you graceless clowns. He goes up and you go down. Stop making a mockery of the sport. Anything to steal massive advantages over an opponent who knows how to outbox you but is older and has no track record above 135. :rolleyes:
I thought you were against catchweights? So shouldn't JMM challenge Pac at the full WW limit? I remember you being critical of Pac fighting Cotto at 145, saying Pac shouldn't be weight draining fighters. So shouldn't the same standard be held for JMM on not trying to weight drain Pac?;)
140 is a legitimate weight class.
Manny is not a full WW as evidenced by his weigh ins and what his team says and Marquez is a much smaller LW. Are you telling me that you think Manny would be weight drained coming in at 140? Well, what about it also seeing Marquez fight an entire division outside his current division?
It isn't fair to have Manny come down to 135 and it isn't fair to expect Marquez to become a fully fledged WW.
140 makes complete sense.
No, all I'm saying is that be consistent. Didn't you say that if a fighter wants to challenge another fighter do it at their best and no catch weights right? Didn't you say that Pacquiao shouldn't have weight drain Oscar at 147 or any other fighter? And isn't 147 the full welterweight limit? So by your logic shouldn't JMM not drag Pac down and fight him at his optimum best with no catchweights? ;)
Sure and on the whole I agree with the consistency argument. Tbh I don't have any massive issues with Pac/DLH because Pac was being asked to jump up an awful lot, but in return Oscar was willing to compromise at 147. They were meeting at a legitimate weight class. My issue comes with there being only a division between them and they are having to settle with 151 instead of 154 or 145 instead of 147. Either go up a weight class or you come down, as for who does it, I don't care.
When there is such a massive gulf as 135 to 147, it is practically impossible to make a fight fairly. It is only in such extreme cases as this that I think it only fair to settle on something like 140. These kinds of fights are quite the exception rather than the norm. I just don't think it fair to ask Marquez to go up to WW and likewise it would be unfair to make Manny go to 135. The only way to make a fight like this is 140, where both fighters are compromising. Or just don't bother with the fight.
140 is the only way to ensure nobody is getting all the advantages and it is of course a legitimate weight class, which I have a thing for respecting.
Ah, so I see. So your problem is that catchweights should be at the division's maximum limit right? So let's say that Martinez and Pac agreed at a catchweight of 154, since they are 2 divisions apart and 154 is the maximum weight limit of Jr. MW. So would you have a problem with it? Or is Manny taking advantage of the situation?
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Marquez: I've Accepted The Pacquiao Offer, 144-Pounds - Boxing News
is JMM just in it for the money? no disrespect for the guy but he isnt young either:-\
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Floyd: Poochiao is fighting another 1 of my leftovers again. I already soften him up for Poochiao. Just take the test man, just take the test. We all know the Phillipines got the best drugs.
*Floyd then drives off with "In Da Club" playing in his Rolls Royce with 50 Cent riding shotgun*
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Shame on Pac and his team if true, haven't they tried to screw the public enough with recent matchups? Cheato who didn't deserve another big fight, old man Mosley and now a way bloated Marquez?
Fight him at 140 you graceless clowns. He goes up and you go down. Stop making a mockery of the sport. Anything to steal massive advantages over an opponent who knows how to outbox you but is older and has no track record above 135. :rolleyes:
I thought you were against catchweights? So shouldn't JMM challenge Pac at the full WW limit? I remember you being critical of Pac fighting Cotto at 145, saying Pac shouldn't be weight draining fighters. So shouldn't the same standard be held for JMM on not trying to weight drain Pac?;)
140 is a legitimate weight class.
Manny is not a full WW as evidenced by his weigh ins and what his team says and Marquez is a much smaller LW. Are you telling me that you think Manny would be weight drained coming in at 140? Well, what about it also seeing Marquez fight an entire division outside his current division?
It isn't fair to have Manny come down to 135 and it isn't fair to expect Marquez to become a fully fledged WW.
140 makes complete sense.
No, all I'm saying is that be consistent. Didn't you say that if a fighter wants to challenge another fighter do it at their best and no catch weights right? Didn't you say that Pacquiao shouldn't have weight drain Oscar at 147 or any other fighter? And isn't 147 the full welterweight limit? So by your logic shouldn't JMM not drag Pac down and fight him at his optimum best with no catchweights? ;)
Sure and on the whole I agree with the consistency argument. Tbh I don't have any massive issues with Pac/DLH because Pac was being asked to jump up an awful lot, but in return Oscar was willing to compromise at 147. They were meeting at a legitimate weight class. My issue comes with there being only a division between them and they are having to settle with 151 instead of 154 or 145 instead of 147. Either go up a weight class or you come down, as for who does it, I don't care.
When there is such a massive gulf as 135 to 147, it is practically impossible to make a fight fairly. It is only in such extreme cases as this that I think it only fair to settle on something like 140. These kinds of fights are quite the exception rather than the norm. I just don't think it fair to ask Marquez to go up to WW and likewise it would be unfair to make Manny go to 135. The only way to make a fight like this is 140, where both fighters are compromising. Or just don't bother with the fight.
140 is the only way to ensure nobody is getting all the advantages and it is of course a legitimate weight class, which I have a thing for respecting.
Ah, so I see. So your problem is that catchweights should be at the division's maximum limit right? So let's say that Martinez and Pac agreed at a catchweight of 154, since they are 2 divisions apart and 154 is the maximum weight limit of Jr. MW. So would you have a problem with it? Or is Manny taking advantage of the situation?
No, that one seems okay to me. One has grown into a MW, the other one is seemingly a WW. If they can both make another legitimate weight to make the fight then it seems fair. I think Martinez might have to boil a little and Manny is clearly not going to weigh in at 154. It makes a more level playing field IMO.
I gues I regard Martinez/Manny at 154 as fair game. If it were to be something like 152, then I would see it as Manny taking the piss, but 154. I'm cool.
Re: Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145
145? If true then I am very upset. The ball is totally in Manny's favour and there is no hint of compromise as that is weight he weighs in at anyway. I am appalled actually.
