Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Pacs last 6 victories are not impressive according to some something that is not a feat. If that is the case then why do they think Pac is on Peds?
Purely because of the way he floundered when asked to take tests:
He is scared of needles -he's covered in tattoos
He doesn't want to give blood so close to a fight - he'd given blood closer to a fight, it's just that he was told well in advanced as to when they'd take it.
He doesn't want to bow to Floyd's demands - despite being from a poverty and disaster stricken country... where a teaspoon of blood could earn him tens of millions
...and so on.
To be honest, any excuse would be OK... Innocent until proven guilty etc... it's just the way that about 5 different, separate excuses came out of his camp after the other that raised a few red flags.
also... you post as if being on PEDs would automatically make somebody an impressive fighter. Believe it or not you could take PEDs and still be crap. To take advantage of them you still needed to work hard and be very talented.
About time we got over them really... about 95% of elite professional athletes are probably on them... most are just clever enough not to be caught by the weak testing on offer.
Profesional sports bodies make money by selling spectacle... most home runs, phenomenal knockouts, freight train tackles and amazing aglity. Drugs in sport has become a demon chased by the media and politicians needing something to fight against... so sports bodies will do some token testing... but when they are trying to sell physical spectacle do you think they really want to strictly police PEDs and cap their earning potential?
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Hmmm... a post seems to have vanished... not sure who it was by but I am going to respond to it anyway.
They were saying that bodybuilders were using steroids in the 70s to make some point about boxing in the 70s.
Please, do yourself a favour and do not compare 1970s sports science (by that I mean training, nutrition and PEDs... EVERYTHING) to that of today... you'll just look stupid to those who know what they are talking about.
Do you think that guys who were scared of touching weights for fear of becoming slow would touch something of such an unknown quanity that was primarily used by body builders?
What really bugs me is that guys keep talking about 'steroids'. Steroids have been around since the 1930s... a steroid is basically a synthetic hormone, it doesn't even have to be a PED... birth control tablets are steroids for god's sake, so is the cream you put on eczema... etc
people need to learn the differences between HGHs, stimulants, receptors etc before opening their mouths... until you understand the nature of PEDs, testing procednures, ethical and politcal issues surrounding them and not to use the word 'steroid' as an umbrealla term for PEDs - you shouldn't be talking about them.
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
I agree with you Adam regarding PEDs in general. Just legalise them, then nobody has an unfair advantage.
In cycling everybody takes them. Just let them. It's only a problem when people try and ban things that can enhance in a sport that demands excellence.
I'd encourage them to take what they want. Let's see someone break 9 seconds in the 100 metres...
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
But they have side affects!... (just like everything else).
Alcohol is harmful, smoking is harmful... more so than 'steroids', yet we are given the choice of whether to use those or not.
At least when a professional athlete does it - it's for their job... it's their livelyhood... it's supporting their families
This is a great documentary (part 1... the rest is on youtube) and a good PED 101 for the uninformed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kExGzZfuM
I'd not taken anything outside of dietary supplements, my knowledge isn't great when it comes to endocrinology and the risks aren't worth it... I exercise for myself only and I am making progress... if I had to do it for my livelihood would I? Fuck yes.
Job hazard... just like being a solider... a firefighter... even working on a building site, they all of risks and it is up to you to judge whether or not to take them.
Fuck we can drink, smoke, eat fatty foods, we can risk surgery for vain, cosmetic reasons... we can bungee jump and skydive for fun... but professional athletes can't take PEDs?
If you have a headache you'd take a painkiller... fuck I'll tell you an awful drug - the antidepressants that half of the world are on... they're fine and PEDs aren't though... right?
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
But they have side affects!... (just like everything else).
Alcohol is harmful, smoking is harmful... more so than 'steroids', yet we are given the choice of whether to use those or not.
At least when a professional athlete does it - it's for their job... it's their livelyhood... it's supporting their families
This is a great documentary (part 1... the rest is on youtube) and a good PED 101 for the uninformed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kExGzZfuM
I'd not taken anything outside of dietary supplements, my knowledge isn't great when it comes to endocrinology and the risks aren't worth it... I exercise for myself only and I am making progress... if I had to do it for my livelihood would I? Fuck yes.
Job hazard... just like being a solider... a firefighter... even working on a building site, they all of risks and it is up to you to judge whether or not to take them.
Fuck we can drink, smoke, eat fatty foods, we can risk surgery for vain, cosmetic reasons... we can bungee jump and skydive for fun... but professional athletes can't take PEDs?
If you have a headache you'd take a painkiller... fuck I'll tell you an awful drug - the antidepressants that half of the world are on... they're fine and PEDs aren't though... right?
dude educate me, increase in power/strength requires hypertrophy right that means demonstrable size increase, if pac was on peds how come he did not get any bigger?
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Twitter
if this is bogus testing how come it's still a standard?
http://www.lvrj.com/sports/pacquiao-...121851244.html
PACQUIAO, MOSLEY PASS -- Pacquiao and Mosley passed their postfight drug tests, Nevada Athletic Commission executive director Keith Kizer said.Both fighters tested negative for steroids, performance-enhancing drugs, recreational drugs and diuretics. Pacquiao, who has been accused of using PEDs -- most recently last week by a former sparring partner -- has never failed a drug test.
Kizer also said Jorge Arce and Wilfredo Vazquez Jr. passed their drug tests. Arce defeated Vazquez by technical knockout to win the WBC super bantamweight title on the May 7 undercard.
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
But they have side affects!... (just like everything else).
Alcohol is harmful, smoking is harmful... more so than 'steroids', yet we are given the choice of whether to use those or not.
At least when a professional athlete does it - it's for their job... it's their livelyhood... it's supporting their families
This is a great documentary (part 1... the rest is on youtube) and a good PED 101 for the uninformed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kExGzZfuM
I'd not taken anything outside of dietary supplements, my knowledge isn't great when it comes to endocrinology and the risks aren't worth it... I exercise for myself only and I am making progress... if I had to do it for my livelihood would I? Fuck yes.
Job hazard... just like being a solider... a firefighter... even working on a building site, they all of risks and it is up to you to judge whether or not to take them.
Fuck we can drink, smoke, eat fatty foods, we can risk surgery for vain, cosmetic reasons... we can bungee jump and skydive for fun... but professional athletes can't take PEDs?
If you have a headache you'd take a painkiller... fuck I'll tell you an awful drug - the antidepressants that half of the world are on... they're fine and PEDs aren't though... right?
dude educate me, increase in power/strength requires hypertrophy right that means demonstrable size increase, if pac was on peds how come he did not get any bigger?
He didn't have to get bigger... an increase in strength is not always correlated with hypertrophy. A muscle's maximimuim force generation is controled by many more variables than fibre size... the central nervous system, hormonal balance etc... a muscle doesn't have to grow in size to be able to have greater output.
Erythropoietin is a steroid that increases the production of red blood cells... leading to an increase in oxygen transfusion, Aerobic endurance and lactic threshold... an athlete isn't going to get bigger using it.
An athlete who uses PEDs to further develop the size an strength of his myocardial wall (heart muscles) isn't going to see an increase in body mass... performance can improve without size improving. to think that PEDs are only used to improve skeletal muscle size is very niave.
and again, sporting bodies use weak standard testing because the product that they sell is spectacle... the goverment needs a demon to chase in the war against drugs... steroids ended up being one of them... sporting bodies do half arsed testing because steroids are good for business, they don't want rid of them... less spectacle, less business.
Shane Mosley (an admitted user of banned PEDs) has also never failed a drug test.
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
although it's got nothing to do with the technicalities of drug testing, it's just weird to see the naturally bigger man(PBF) having all the physical advantages over PAC demand testing, as if he's fighting king-kong.
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
But they have side affects!... (just like everything else).
Alcohol is harmful, smoking is harmful... more so than 'steroids', yet we are given the choice of whether to use those or not.
At least when a professional athlete does it - it's for their job... it's their livelyhood... it's supporting their families
This is a great documentary (part 1... the rest is on youtube) and a good PED 101 for the uninformed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kExGzZfuM
I'd not taken anything outside of dietary supplements, my knowledge isn't great when it comes to endocrinology and the risks aren't worth it... I exercise for myself only and I am making progress... if I had to do it for my livelihood would I? Fuck yes.
Job hazard... just like being a solider... a firefighter... even working on a building site, they all of risks and it is up to you to judge whether or not to take them.
Fuck we can drink, smoke, eat fatty foods, we can risk surgery for vain, cosmetic reasons... we can bungee jump and skydive for fun... but professional athletes can't take PEDs?
If you have a headache you'd take a painkiller... fuck I'll tell you an awful drug - the antidepressants that half of the world are on... they're fine and PEDs aren't though... right?
dude educate me, increase in power/strength requires hypertrophy right that means demonstrable size increase, if pac was on peds how come he did not get any bigger?
He didn't have to get bigger... an increase in strength is not always correlated with hypertrophy. A muscle's maximimuim force generation is controled by many more variables than fibre size... the central nervous system, hormonal balance etc... a muscle doesn't have to grow in size to be able to have greater output.
Erythropoietin is a steroid that increases the production of red blood cells... leading to an increase in oxygen transfusion, Aerobic endurance and lactic threshold... an athlete isn't going to get bigger using it.
An athlete who uses PEDs to further develop the size an strength of his myocardial wall (heart muscles) isn't going to see an increase in body mass... performance can improve without size improving. to think that PEDs are only used to improve skeletal muscle size is very niave.
and again, sporting bodies use weak standard testing because the product that they sell is spectacle... the goverment needs a demon to chase in the war against drugs... steroids ended up being one of them... sporting bodies do half arsed testing because steroids are good for business, they don't want rid of them... less spectacle, less business.
Shane Mosley (an admitted user of banned PEDs) has also never failed a drug test.
so it's more geared towards stamina than power=Erythropoietin
fair enough.
Pac always had great stamina though right:)
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Adam I just thought PAC's recent improvements were because of his lateral movements, more use of the right hand................ skill wise. Not his stamina.
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Yes i can see the point in legalization.
Althought the next two problems you have is the out cry when athletes start dying of a young age because of liver, heart and other organ failure.
Other unknown side effects
Sport will then be dropped to a level of whoever can afford the most potent roids wins, OR who's body can take the most chemicals without dying wins. It becaomes less about the actual sport.
Then you have the problem of young kids taking steroids to emmulate their heros...
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Pacs last 6 victories are not impressive according to some something that is not a feat. If that is the case then why do they think Pac is on Peds?
This makes absolutely no sense.
1) There is nobody who says his last 6 victories were not impressive. I challenge you to produce a quip of someone saying that.
2) An unimpressive boxing performance automatically clears someone from PED usage? Come on.
Mayweather Sr on Roach "He's an average trainer training an average fighter' - Jackson Fight Sports | Examiner.com
well not verbatimly but along those lines. My point is the only way you would assume someone is using Peds is something out of the ordinary performance took place. Would you assume someone average at best:rolleyes:
well that seems to be the point, as far as boxing skill is concerned he is AVERGE, but his feats are not and the only way people can explain it is that he is using something, no way can it be that he is a hard worker, and not having to cut weight has helped him be faster stronger and last longer.
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boxer4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Pacs last 6 victories are not impressive according to some something that is not a feat. If that is the case then why do they think Pac is on Peds?
This makes absolutely no sense.
1) There is nobody who says his last 6 victories were not impressive. I challenge you to produce a quip of someone saying that.
2) An unimpressive boxing performance automatically clears someone from PED usage? Come on.
Mayweather Sr on Roach "He's an average trainer training an average fighter' - Jackson Fight Sports | Examiner.com
well not verbatimly but along those lines. My point is the only way you would assume someone is using Peds is something out of the ordinary performance took place. Would you assume someone average at best:rolleyes:
well that seems to be the point, as far as boxing skill is concerned he is AVERGE, but his feats are not and the only way people can explain it is that he is using something, no way can it be that he is a hard worker, and not having to cut weight has helped him be faster stronger and last longer.
Bro Manny is no PBF in terms of skill but he is definitely above average in that department. Regarding his physicality his stamina and explosiveness has always been there. It's only after the Marquez rematch that PAC utilized more his lateral movement and right hand has improved greatly. In order to develop speed increase in muscle power is required or increase in your fast twitch muscle fiber which in most cases is being accompanied by hypertrophy which in Manny's case does not show. As stated by Adam in the previous post there are some steroid/or HGH that improves your cardiac muscle to improve stamina, Bro Manny always had great stamina.
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boxer4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Pacs last 6 victories are not impressive according to some something that is not a feat. If that is the case then why do they think Pac is on Peds?
This makes absolutely no sense.
1) There is nobody who says his last 6 victories were not impressive. I challenge you to produce a quip of someone saying that.
2) An unimpressive boxing performance automatically clears someone from PED usage? Come on.
Mayweather Sr on Roach "He's an average trainer training an average fighter' - Jackson Fight Sports | Examiner.com
well not verbatimly but along those lines. My point is the only way you would assume someone is using Peds is something out of the ordinary performance took place. Would you assume someone average at best:rolleyes:
well that seems to be the point, as far as boxing skill is concerned he is AVERGE, but his feats are not and the only way people can explain it is that he is using something, no way can it be that he is a hard worker, and not having to cut weight has helped him be faster stronger and last longer.
Bro Manny is no PBF in terms of skill but he is definitely above average in that department. Regarding his physicality his stamina and explosiveness has always been there. It's only after the Marquez rematch that PAC utilized more his lateral movement and right hand has improved greatly. In order to develop speed increase in muscle power is required or increase in your fast twitch muscle fiber which in most cases is being accompanied by hypertrophy which in Manny's case does not show. As stated by Adam in the previous post there are some steroid/or HGH that improves your cardiac muscle to improve stamina,
Bro Manny always had great stamina.
sorry bro, thats my fault in the fact that its hard to read sarcasm in writing, when i said no way it can be his hard work, i was being sarcastic, i think manny is just a hard worker and him not having to cut weight is making him a beast, anyone that has had to cut weight knows what i am talking about, by no means do i think manny is a juicer, its just people used it to explain his victories, because they don't understand how a fighter that is not technically technical can win in higher weight classes, well....its possible...and manny proved it..i think manny is a perfect example of how throw back fighters form lomatto to duran to the sugar rays, would fair in the modern day. But guys like floyd snr and manny haters/floyd lovers can only explain his success bineg equivalent to floyds with steroids, which is not the case, i respect and am a big fan of both guys, just wish they FUKING FIGHT!
Re: Damn if you do Damn if you Dont
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boxer4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boxer4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
Pacs last 6 victories are not impressive according to some something that is not a feat. If that is the case then why do they think Pac is on Peds?
This makes absolutely no sense.
1) There is nobody who says his last 6 victories were not impressive. I challenge you to produce a quip of someone saying that.
2) An unimpressive boxing performance automatically clears someone from PED usage? Come on.
Mayweather Sr on Roach "He's an average trainer training an average fighter' - Jackson Fight Sports | Examiner.com
well not verbatimly but along those lines. My point is the only way you would assume someone is using Peds is something out of the ordinary performance took place. Would you assume someone average at best:rolleyes:
well that seems to be the point, as far as boxing skill is concerned he is AVERGE, but his feats are not and the only way people can explain it is that he is using something, no way can it be that he is a hard worker, and not having to cut weight has helped him be faster stronger and last longer.
Bro Manny is no PBF in terms of skill but he is definitely above average in that department. Regarding his physicality his stamina and explosiveness has always been there. It's only after the Marquez rematch that PAC utilized more his lateral movement and right hand has improved greatly. In order to develop speed increase in muscle power is required or increase in your fast twitch muscle fiber which in most cases is being accompanied by hypertrophy which in Manny's case does not show. As stated by Adam in the previous post there are some steroid/or HGH that improves your cardiac muscle to improve stamina,
Bro Manny always had great stamina.
sorry bro, thats my fault in the fact that its hard to read sarcasm in writing, when i said no way it can be his hard work, i was being sarcastic, i think manny is just a hard worker and him not having to cut weight is making him a beast, anyone that has had to cut weight knows what i am talking about, by no means do i think manny is a juicer, its just people used it to explain his victories, because they don't understand how a fighter that is not technically technical can win in higher weight classes, well....its possible...and manny proved it..i think manny is a perfect example of how throw back fighters form lomatto to duran to the sugar rays, would fair in the modern day. But guys like floyd snr and manny haters/floyd lovers can only explain his success bineg equivalent to floyds with steroids, which is not the case, i respect and am a big fan of both guys, just wish they FUKING FIGHT!
oops im sorry too bro;D
