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How about moving up, like most in history tend to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Yeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherMust be why he fought those blown up WWs....Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Because that's NOT what most in history have done. These sorts of violent weight movements are a recent phenomenon and a function of two things. 17 divisions instead of eight and as thin a talent pool as the sport has seen for 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherHow about moving up, like most in history tend to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherMust be why he fought those blown up WWs....Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
As far as moving up goes? You may have heard about a fight in Montreal tonight?
You asked about 2001.. And in Bhop's era moving up in weight was and is fairly common. Surely he'd know, seeing as how his best wins came against fighters smaller than him. And if we really want to dissect this thing, his win against Tarver, Tarver was clearly weight drained from dropping the weight from filming that Rocky movie. Which only leaves a win over Pascal. Whoopty dooo..Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiBecause that's NOT what most in history have done. These sorts of violent weight movements are a recent phenomenon and a function of two things. 17 divisions instead of eight and as thin a talent pool as the sport has seen for 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherHow about moving up, like most in history tend to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherMust be why he fought those blown up WWs....Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
As far as moving up goes? You may have heard about a fight in Montreal tonight?
Honestly, I think his legacy pales in comparison to Pacquiao's. Hopkins feats are impressive because of his age, but I don't think they come close to what Pacquiao has done.
Floyd is more of a mystery. He has the skills to literally be the greatest boxer of all time, but his resume (relatively speaking) is mediocre for a fighter of his level.
The idea that tonight can EVER be referred to as a Whoopty doo is just a sign of a staggering lack of historical perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherYou asked about 2001.. And in Bhop's era moving up in weight was and is fairly common. Surely he'd know, seeing as how his best wins came against fighters smaller than him. And if we really want to dissect this thing, his win against Tarver, Tarver was clearly weight drained from dropping the weight from filming that Rocky movie. Which only leaves a win over Pascal. Whoopty dooo..Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiBecause that's NOT what most in history have done. These sorts of violent weight movements are a recent phenomenon and a function of two things. 17 divisions instead of eight and as thin a talent pool as the sport has seen for 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherHow about moving up, like most in history tend to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherMust be why he fought those blown up WWs....Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
As far as moving up goes? You may have heard about a fight in Montreal tonight?
I don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo
Yeah, mystery is probably the wrong word. An enigma perhaps? I just honestly think that he has the skills to literally be remembered as the best fighter ever (or at least be in the discussion), but while his early resume is quite strong he has absolutely pissed away his legacy in the past half-decade. Skill-wise, he's miles ahead of Hopkins, but he doesn't have the same desire that the old man does and I'd have him well behind at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo
I still don't think Hopkins comes anywhere close to Pacquiao though.
There's no lack of anything. I acknowledged what hopkins has done in another thread already. Just not going to get all hyperbolic about it like most do right after the fights. It's like after a fighter that someone is supporting wins, they come right to forum for some "after sex i love you" talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe idea that tonight can EVER be referred to as a Whoopty doo is just a sign of a staggering lack of historical perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherYou asked about 2001.. And in Bhop's era moving up in weight was and is fairly common. Surely he'd know, seeing as how his best wins came against fighters smaller than him. And if we really want to dissect this thing, his win against Tarver, Tarver was clearly weight drained from dropping the weight from filming that Rocky movie. Which only leaves a win over Pascal. Whoopty dooo..Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiBecause that's NOT what most in history have done. These sorts of violent weight movements are a recent phenomenon and a function of two things. 17 divisions instead of eight and as thin a talent pool as the sport has seen for 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherHow about moving up, like most in history tend to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherMust be why he fought those blown up WWs....Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
As far as moving up goes? You may have heard about a fight in Montreal tonight?
The bold is why Floyd infuriates me. See I suspect his looniest, least rational fans are probably correct that he could have fought guys like Johnston and Spadafora and Casamyor and Kosta and HaTTON (AT 140) and Cotto and Margarito and Popo and Shane (when it mattered) and Manny and have beaten them all. I want to see greatness fully tested. But it isn't what Floyd wants and it is his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHYeah, mystery is probably the wrong word. An enigma perhaps? I just honestly think that he has the skills to literally be remembered as the best fighter ever (or at least be in the discussion), but while his early resume is quite strong he has absolutely pissed away his legacy in the past half-decade. Skill-wise, he's miles ahead of Hopkins, but he doesn't have the same desire that the old man does and I'd have him well behind at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo
I still don't think Hopkins comes anywhere close to Pacquiao though.
People's imaginations mean nothing. What happens, or doesn't, in the ring is everything.
There's a BROAD gap between hyperbole and woopety doo.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherThere's no lack of anything. I acknowledged what hopkins has done in another thread already. Just not going to get all hyperbolic about it like most do right after the fights. It's like after a fighter that someone is supporting wins, they come right to forum for some "after sex i love you" talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe idea that tonight can EVER be referred to as a Whoopty doo is just a sign of a staggering lack of historical perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherYou asked about 2001.. And in Bhop's era moving up in weight was and is fairly common. Surely he'd know, seeing as how his best wins came against fighters smaller than him. And if we really want to dissect this thing, his win against Tarver, Tarver was clearly weight drained from dropping the weight from filming that Rocky movie. Which only leaves a win over Pascal. Whoopty dooo..Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiBecause that's NOT what most in history have done. These sorts of violent weight movements are a recent phenomenon and a function of two things. 17 divisions instead of eight and as thin a talent pool as the sport has seen for 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherHow about moving up, like most in history tend to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiYeah but that's not fair. He fought welters after he'd whacked out the entire 160 division. By 2001 what middle was he supposed to fight instead of Tito for instance?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherMust be why he fought those blown up WWs....Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
As far as moving up goes? You may have heard about a fight in Montreal tonight?
Personally, I think Hopkins should travel to Russia to fight Jean Paul Gaultier.
The sad thing is that I think he would have beaten every fighter you listed. But, like Floyd has said for years, he fights for money, not glory. With that mind-set he'll always be taking the easiest route because his name alone will make him millions and he's able to keep fighting guys who are no real threat to his future earning power.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe bold is why Floyd infuriates me. See I suspect his looniest, least rational fans are probably correct that he could have fought guys like Johnston and Spadafora and Casamyor and Kosta and HaTTON (AT 140) and Cotto and Margarito and Popo and Shane (when it mattered) and Manny and have beaten them all. I want to see greatness fully tested. But it isn't what Floyd wants and it is his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHYeah, mystery is probably the wrong word. An enigma perhaps? I just honestly think that he has the skills to literally be remembered as the best fighter ever (or at least be in the discussion), but while his early resume is quite strong he has absolutely pissed away his legacy in the past half-decade. Skill-wise, he's miles ahead of Hopkins, but he doesn't have the same desire that the old man does and I'd have him well behind at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo
I still don't think Hopkins comes anywhere close to Pacquiao though.
People's imaginations mean nothing. What happens, or doesn't, in the ring is everything.
The funny thing is, I remember about 6 or 7 years ago, there was an interview where Lil' Floyd was discrediting what Bernard had achieved @ 160 saying something like ''Anyone can dominate just one division''.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo
I remember thinking to myself, 'Why would a great fighter who is completely out of competition with another great fighter, make the effort to try and talk down a man's legacy like that?'
Anyway it's funny now though, that Bernard at 46, is still mastering his sport while Floyd is talking his own legacy down the toilet.
It's his life and if he can end up rich, healthy and personally satisfied? More power to him. I just wish real glory matterred to him a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThe sad thing is that I think he would have beaten every fighter you listed. But, like Floyd has said for years, he fights for money, not glory. With that mind-set he'll always be taking the easiest route because his name alone will make him millions and he's able to keep fighting guys who are no real threat to his future earning power.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe bold is why Floyd infuriates me. See I suspect his looniest, least rational fans are probably correct that he could have fought guys like Johnston and Spadafora and Casamyor and Kosta and HaTTON (AT 140) and Cotto and Margarito and Popo and Shane (when it mattered) and Manny and have beaten them all. I want to see greatness fully tested. But it isn't what Floyd wants and it is his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHYeah, mystery is probably the wrong word. An enigma perhaps? I just honestly think that he has the skills to literally be remembered as the best fighter ever (or at least be in the discussion), but while his early resume is quite strong he has absolutely pissed away his legacy in the past half-decade. Skill-wise, he's miles ahead of Hopkins, but he doesn't have the same desire that the old man does and I'd have him well behind at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo
I still don't think Hopkins comes anywhere close to Pacquiao though.
People's imaginations mean nothing. What happens, or doesn't, in the ring is everything.
I do too. Like I said, I think his skill-set is amazing. However, speaking objectively I think he's clearly made the more intelligent decision. I'd much rather end up a millionaire with my mind intact and have people question my legacy than be Evander Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiIt's his life and if he can end up rich, healthy and personally satisfied? More power to him. I just wish real glory matterred to him a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThe sad thing is that I think he would have beaten every fighter you listed. But, like Floyd has said for years, he fights for money, not glory. With that mind-set he'll always be taking the easiest route because his name alone will make him millions and he's able to keep fighting guys who are no real threat to his future earning power.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThe bold is why Floyd infuriates me. See I suspect his looniest, least rational fans are probably correct that he could have fought guys like Johnston and Spadafora and Casamyor and Kosta and HaTTON (AT 140) and Cotto and Margarito and Popo and Shane (when it mattered) and Manny and have beaten them all. I want to see greatness fully tested. But it isn't what Floyd wants and it is his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHYeah, mystery is probably the wrong word. An enigma perhaps? I just honestly think that he has the skills to literally be remembered as the best fighter ever (or at least be in the discussion), but while his early resume is quite strong he has absolutely pissed away his legacy in the past half-decade. Skill-wise, he's miles ahead of Hopkins, but he doesn't have the same desire that the old man does and I'd have him well behind at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiI don't think Floyd is a mystery at all. I think one can fairly say the gap between the quality of his God-given talents and his accomplishments is as large, or larger than any fighter in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
He is the anti-Carmen Basilio/Vito Antuofuermo
I still don't think Hopkins comes anywhere close to Pacquiao though.
People's imaginations mean nothing. What happens, or doesn't, in the ring is everything.