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What weight would these fights be taking place at?
Manny vs Oscar at lightweight would be interesting, Floyd vs Oscar at light welter too.
Id pick Manny and Floyd.
If you want to put Oscar in the welterweight or light middle divisions however I think he wouldnt be fighting the best Floyd or Manny either.
its impossible to put them both in the ring in their primes and prime weights as they are different sized fighters......
But there was no doubt that floyd won both of those fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Hell if people want to say ODLH beat Sweet Pea, then I'll argue that he lost to Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
And Mayweather struggled with Castillo's pressure twice, and Pacquiao arguably lost to JMM twice and he lost convincingly to Erik Morales.
I said Floyd would beat him. Not manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesalso since when has Manny been a slick fighter? he's a boxer/puncher at best, and gets hit plenty still, just cause an old shot Mosley was unable to touch him in their last fight doesn't mean that a young DLH in his prime wouldn't have been able to touch him up and hurt him, can't compare what both did against the DLH they fought as to how they would do against the DLH that beat Vargas, Quartey, and arguably Mosley at his peakQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBHell if people want to say ODLH beat Sweet Pea, then I'll argue that he lost to Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
And Mayweather struggled with Castillo's pressure twice, and Pacquiao arguably lost to JMM twice and he lost convincingly to Erik Morales.
And mosely at 154 wasn't peak.
was a hell of a lot closer to it than when Floyd and Manny beat himQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherI said Floyd would beat him. Not manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesalso since when has Manny been a slick fighter? he's a boxer/puncher at best, and gets hit plenty still, just cause an old shot Mosley was unable to touch him in their last fight doesn't mean that a young DLH in his prime wouldn't have been able to touch him up and hurt him, can't compare what both did against the DLH they fought as to how they would do against the DLH that beat Vargas, Quartey, and arguably Mosley at his peakQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBHell if people want to say ODLH beat Sweet Pea, then I'll argue that he lost to Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
And Mayweather struggled with Castillo's pressure twice, and Pacquiao arguably lost to JMM twice and he lost convincingly to Erik Morales.
And mosely at 154 wasn't peak.
True that...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleswas a hell of a lot closer to it than when Floyd and Manny beat himQuote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherI said Floyd would beat him. Not manny.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesalso since when has Manny been a slick fighter? he's a boxer/puncher at best, and gets hit plenty still, just cause an old shot Mosley was unable to touch him in their last fight doesn't mean that a young DLH in his prime wouldn't have been able to touch him up and hurt him, can't compare what both did against the DLH they fought as to how they would do against the DLH that beat Vargas, Quartey, and arguably Mosley at his peakQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBHell if people want to say ODLH beat Sweet Pea, then I'll argue that he lost to Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
And Mayweather struggled with Castillo's pressure twice, and Pacquiao arguably lost to JMM twice and he lost convincingly to Erik Morales.
And mosely at 154 wasn't peak.
It's such an impossible result to really call. Let's not forget Oscar even shared a ring with our favourite grandad. The weights are too all over.
My take is that he couldn't beat them when they fought despite:
1. Outweighing Mayweather by somewhere in the region of 15-20lbs.
2. Pacquiao having been a Super-Featherweight only 9 months prior
3. Being able to choose the ring size, gloves of his opponent (I know this was definitely true against PBF) as well as them coming to a new weightclass stipulated by him.
He in no way fought them 'at their best' as they both faced several disadvantages when fighting him. Not to mention that the best version of Oscar being mentioned was only 3/4 years younger than when they beat him & a proper LMW. Neither has the frame to be a LMW. Put the best WW versions of PBF & Pac against the one that fought Quartey/Whitaker/Mosley 1 & for me they beat him.
They were also both considerably better at the lower weights than Oscar who largely passed quickly through them because he struggled with the weight.
People can talk about prime, but this isn't like Mike Tyson getting beaten by Danny Williams & Kevin McBride, he was up against guys who might well have had his number whenever he fought them.
Prime oscar beats any version of pacman, because of his jab, chin, power and boxing ability.
You could argue he beat Trinidad and Mosley in fight 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Yes, but tito isn't slick, and SSM in the second fight at 154 was where he started to load up and only throw one or two punch combos. Basically getting away from the fighter he was to become the fighter that made his career harder than it had to be. The shane that fought Oscar at 147. I think would beat everyone mentioned in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANYou could argue he beat Trinidad and Mosley in fight 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Not true Jose Luis Castillo outlanded Floyd Mayweather Jr. And pretty much won most of the rounds after the 5th round, was it a robbery ? no but very controversial and more people think he lost it than won it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherBut there was no doubt that floyd won both of those fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBHell if people want to say ODLH beat Sweet Pea, then I'll argue that he lost to Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
And Mayweather struggled with Castillo's pressure twice, and Pacquiao arguably lost to JMM twice and he lost convincingly to Erik Morales.
As for the rematch yes Floyd Mayweather Jr won a close but clear decision, but it was no walk in the park. At worst it was 7-5 or 7-4-1 for Floyd Mayweather Jr.
most people think that only because the fight was closer. Yeah he made it tough, but floyd won that fight. Castillo did a bunch of holding in that fight. Landing more punches doesn't mean one wins a fight, it isn't amateur boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBNot true Jose Luis Castillo outlanded Floyd Mayweather Jr. And pretty much won most of the rounds after the 5th round, was it a robbery ? no but very controversial and more people think he lost it than won it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherBut there was no doubt that floyd won both of those fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBHell if people want to say ODLH beat Sweet Pea, then I'll argue that he lost to Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
And Mayweather struggled with Castillo's pressure twice, and Pacquiao arguably lost to JMM twice and he lost convincingly to Erik Morales.
As for the rematch yes Floyd Mayweather Jr won a close but clear decision, but it was no walk in the park. At worst it was 7-5 or 7-4-1 for Floyd Mayweather Jr.
If lands 100 punches in one round but loses the other rounds, that's still just one round round won.
True but apart from the first 4 rounds, where Floyd Mayweather Jr was landing effective jabs. JLC was able to bully and outland Floyd Mayweather Jr, consistently on the inside for the most part in the 2nd half of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweathermost people think that only because the fight was closer. Yeah he made it tough, but floyd won that fight. Castillo did a bunch of holding in that fight. Landing more punches doesn't mean one wins a fight, it isn't amateur boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBNot true Jose Luis Castillo outlanded Floyd Mayweather Jr. And pretty much won most of the rounds after the 5th round, was it a robbery ? no but very controversial and more people think he lost it than won it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherBut there was no doubt that floyd won both of those fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBHell if people want to say ODLH beat Sweet Pea, then I'll argue that he lost to Quartey.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
And Mayweather struggled with Castillo's pressure twice, and Pacquiao arguably lost to JMM twice and he lost convincingly to Erik Morales.
As for the rematch yes Floyd Mayweather Jr won a close but clear decision, but it was no walk in the park. At worst it was 7-5 or 7-4-1 for Floyd Mayweather Jr.
If lands 100 punches in one round but loses the other rounds, that's still just one round round won.
Right, Oscar won some fights he probably didn't deserve to win as some have pointed out but he also "lost" these 2 where he probably didn't to deserve to as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANYou could argue he beat Trinidad and Mosley in fight 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
He also took out (impressively!) a maybe not prime Vargas but still a tough guy where early on it looked like Vargas was too big & strong(he was probably on roids that night). That was a pretty big fight too as I recall in the months leading up to it.
Yeah he did, but Vargas was ruined by Tito, and possibly brought on too fast and early in his career. Even Still Oscar would have beaten him no matter when they fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRazorRight, Oscar won some fights he probably didn't deserve to win as some have pointed out but he also "lost" these 2 where he probably didn't to deserve to as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANYou could argue he beat Trinidad and Mosley in fight 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
He also took out (impressively!) a maybe not prime Vargas but still a tough guy where early on it looked like Vargas was too big & strong(he was probably on roids that night). That was a pretty big fight too as I recall in the months leading up to it.