Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
I can't decide, need to see them both in a few more fights. But i Don't think either one of them will have any type of dominant reign as world champ.
which kind of fighters have you seen at this level in their careers where you have thought, yeah they will will be a dominant world champ?
Evander, Kostya, Sweet Pea, Gamboa (if he improved some specific things related to craft), Ray Leonard, Mike Spinks (the '72 Olympic Team was insanely good), Floyd Jr, Oscar, Azumah (following the Sanchez fight) and some others. Those guys just jumped out at you very, very early. Kind of how Jose Benavidez has today.
Now to be fair? I can also list guys who jumped out early who did NOT end up being longtime champs. Johnny Bumphus, Howard Davis (another '72 guy), Mike Quarry, the Viruets and Sean O'Grady.
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
I can't decide, need to see them both in a few more fights. But i Don't think either one of them will have any type of dominant reign as world champ.
which kind of fighters have you seen at this level in their careers where you have thought, yeah they will will be a dominant world champ?
Evander, Kostya, Sweet Pea, Gamboa (if he improved some specific things related to craft), Ray Leonard, Mike Spinks (the '72 Olympic Team was insanely good), Floyd Jr, Oscar, Azumah (following the Sanchez fight) and some others. Those guys just jumped out at you very, very early. Kind of how Jose Benavidez has today.
Now to be fair? I can also list guys who jumped out early who did NOT end up being longtime champs. Johnny Bumphus, Howard Davis (another '72 guy), Mike Quarry, the Viruets and Sean O'Grady.
I hate to do this mate but.............. Weren't Spinks and Leonard '76? :)
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
I can't decide, need to see them both in a few more fights. But i Don't think either one of them will have any type of dominant reign as world champ.
which kind of fighters have you seen at this level in their careers where you have thought, yeah they will will be a dominant world champ?
Evander, Kostya, Sweet Pea, Gamboa (if he improved some specific things related to craft), Ray Leonard, Mike Spinks (the '72 Olympic Team was insanely good), Floyd Jr, Oscar, Azumah (following the Sanchez fight) and some others. Those guys just jumped out at you very, very early. Kind of how Jose Benavidez has today.
Now to be fair? I can also list guys who jumped out early who did NOT end up being longtime champs. Johnny Bumphus, Howard Davis (another '72 guy), Mike Quarry, the Viruets and Sean O'Grady.
I hate to do this mate but.............. Wasn't Spinks '76? :)
Aaaaaargh! Spinks and Leonard AND Howard Davis! Thanks! All '72 had was my guy Ray Seales!
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
I can't decide, need to see them both in a few more fights. But i Don't think either one of them will have any type of dominant reign as world champ.
which kind of fighters have you seen at this level in their careers where you have thought, yeah they will will be a dominant world champ?
Evander, Kostya, Sweet Pea, Gamboa (if he improved some specific things related to craft), Ray Leonard, Mike Spinks (the '72 Olympic Team was insanely good), Floyd Jr, Oscar, Azumah (following the Sanchez fight) and some others. Those guys just jumped out at you very, very early. Kind of how Jose Benavidez has today.
Now to be fair? I can also list guys who jumped out early who did NOT end up being longtime champs. Johnny Bumphus, Howard Davis (another '72 guy), Mike Quarry, the Viruets and Sean O'Grady.
I hate to do this mate but.............. Wasn't Spinks '76? :)
Aaaaaargh! Spinks and Leonard AND Howard Davis! Thanks! All '72 had was my guy Ray Seales!
Back to guys who looked special early though Roy Jones looked spectacular in the Olympics (we know how it panned out) and though after his first 2 fights it took a while to get any TV coverage of him, I have all his fights on DVD, the early ones are on Camcorder at ringside but you can still see just how skillfull he was. Yes he was fighting bums but he looked special and very very fast.
On the flipside though and kind of a backup for Groves and DeGale, I remember watching early Lennox Lewis after he turned pro and thinking this guy has a lot to learn if he's going to make it to the top, but he did just that and found a style of boxing that went well with his stature and IMO went on to become an ATG HW.
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
I can't decide, need to see them both in a few more fights. But i Don't think either one of them will have any type of dominant reign as world champ.
which kind of fighters have you seen at this level in their careers where you have thought, yeah they will will be a dominant world champ?
Evander, Kostya, Sweet Pea, Gamboa (if he improved some specific things related to craft), Ray Leonard, Mike Spinks (the '72 Olympic Team was insanely good), Floyd Jr, Oscar, Azumah (following the Sanchez fight) and some others. Those guys just jumped out at you very, very early. Kind of how Jose Benavidez has today.
Now to be fair? I can also list guys who jumped out early who did NOT end up being longtime champs. Johnny Bumphus, Howard Davis (another '72 guy), Mike Quarry, the Viruets and Sean O'Grady.
I hate to do this mate but.............. Wasn't Spinks '76? :)
Aaaaaargh! Spinks and Leonard AND Howard Davis! Thanks! All '72 had was my guy Ray Seales!
Back to guys who looked special early though Roy Jones looked spectacular in the Olympics (we know how it panned out) and though after his first 2 fights it took a while to get any TV coverage of him, I have all his fights on DVD, the early ones are on Camcorder at ringside but you can still see just how skillfull he was. Yes he was fighting bums but he looked special and very very fast.
On the flipside though and kind of a backup for Groves and DeGale, I remember watching early Lennox Lewis after he turned pro and thinking this guy has a lot to learn if he's going to make it to the top, but he did just that and found a style of boxing that went well with his stature and IMO went on to become an ATG HW.
That's a great point. It may be the more usual path that guys grow gradually and then one day it all comes together and they take a leap in excellence. I mean I sure wouldn't have guessed guys like Escalera or Cuevas or Mamby or Pendleton were going to be as accomplished as they ended up!
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
I can't decide, need to see them both in a few more fights. But i Don't think either one of them will have any type of dominant reign as world champ.
which kind of fighters have you seen at this level in their careers where you have thought, yeah they will will be a dominant world champ?
Evander, Kostya, Sweet Pea, Gamboa (if he improved some specific things related to craft), Ray Leonard, Mike Spinks (the '72 Olympic Team was insanely good), Floyd Jr, Oscar, Azumah (following the Sanchez fight) and some others. Those guys just jumped out at you very, very early. Kind of how Jose Benavidez has today.
Now to be fair? I can also list guys who jumped out early who did NOT end up being longtime champs. Johnny Bumphus, Howard Davis (another '72 guy), Mike Quarry, the Viruets and Sean O'Grady.
I hate to do this mate but.............. Wasn't Spinks '76? :)
Aaaaaargh! Spinks and Leonard AND Howard Davis! Thanks! All '72 had was my guy Ray Seales!
Back to guys who looked special early though Roy Jones looked spectacular in the Olympics (we know how it panned out) and though after his first 2 fights it took a while to get any TV coverage of him, I have all his fights on DVD, the early ones are on Camcorder at ringside but you can still see just how skillfull he was. Yes he was fighting bums but he looked special and very very fast.
On the flipside though and kind of a backup for Groves and DeGale, I remember watching early Lennox Lewis after he turned pro and thinking this guy has a lot to learn if he's going to make it to the top, but he did just that and found a style of boxing that went well with his stature and IMO went on to become an ATG HW.
That's a great point. It may be the more usual path that guys grow gradually and then one day it all comes together and they take a leap in excellence. I mean I sure wouldn't have guessed guys like Escalera or Cuevas or Mamby or Pendleton were going to be as accomplished as they ended up!
You can add Johnny Nelson to that list I suppose too. He lost his first 3 fights and early on lost to quite a few people who should have never have lived with a future world champ, but after '95 and right upto his retirement in 2005 he never lost and defended the WBO Cruiserweight title quite a few times. His record is here if you would like to see it. Not saying he's an ATG, it's just hard to believe the kind of fighters he was losing to early on upto the fighters he was beating at the end.
Johnny Nelson - Boxer
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manos de Piedra
I can't decide, need to see them both in a few more fights. But i Don't think either one of them will have any type of dominant reign as world champ.
which kind of fighters have you seen at this level in their careers where you have thought, yeah they will will be a dominant world champ?
Evander, Kostya, Sweet Pea, Gamboa (if he improved some specific things related to craft), Ray Leonard, Mike Spinks (the '72 Olympic Team was insanely good), Floyd Jr, Oscar, Azumah (following the Sanchez fight) and some others. Those guys just jumped out at you very, very early. Kind of how Jose Benavidez has today.
Now to be fair? I can also list guys who jumped out early who did NOT end up being longtime champs. Johnny Bumphus, Howard Davis (another '72 guy), Mike Quarry, the Viruets and Sean O'Grady.
I hate to do this mate but.............. Wasn't Spinks '76? :)
Aaaaaargh! Spinks and Leonard AND Howard Davis! Thanks! All '72 had was my guy Ray Seales!
Back to guys who looked special early though Roy Jones looked spectacular in the Olympics (we know how it panned out) and though after his first 2 fights it took a while to get any TV coverage of him, I have all his fights on DVD, the early ones are on Camcorder at ringside but you can still see just how skillfull he was. Yes he was fighting bums but he looked special and very very fast.
On the flipside though and kind of a backup for Groves and DeGale, I remember watching early Lennox Lewis after he turned pro and thinking this guy has a lot to learn if he's going to make it to the top, but he did just that and found a style of boxing that went well with his stature and IMO went on to become an ATG HW.
That's a great point. It may be the more usual path that guys grow gradually and then one day it all comes together and they take a leap in excellence. I mean I sure wouldn't have guessed guys like Escalera or Cuevas or Mamby or Pendleton were going to be as accomplished as they ended up!
You can add Johnny Nelson to that list I suppose too. He lost his first 3 fights and early on lost to quite a few people who should have never have lived with a future world champ, but after '95 and right upto his retirement in 2005 he never lost and defended the WBO Cruiserweight title quite a few times. His record is here if you would like to see it. Not saying he's an ATG, it's just hard to believe the kind of fighters he was losing to early on upto the fighters he was beating at the end.
Johnny Nelson - Boxer
[Laughing] I'd never even HEARD of this guy until I came here. He beat some pretty good fighters in Dominguez, Jones and Sellers. Some of his losses, Adilson and Sanders and Akinwande were probably as much about size as anything else. Nice career.
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
I want to choose Degale but I kind of think of him as kind of a mental midget with an ego. That loss could really effect his future performances. That is could. Not saying it will.
Re: who will be more successful in boxing Degale or Groves
I think both Degale and Groves will go on and at least challenge for world titles and depending who they face may win them. I can also them fighting one another again similar to Benn v Eubanks at the world stage.
The only problems I can see is them being motivated enough for their next fights which will be lower profile and they both need to develop as they fought each other too early and have a lot to learn if they want to get to the world class level they are aiming for.
