Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
killersheep
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
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Originally Posted by
killersheep
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Typical overhyped Mexifraud. Fact.
Guy has everything in his favour - home advantage, ref, judges, crowd, promotion and still can't easily dispatch two mediocre British, in fact less than mediocre, fighters.
24 rounds with two toilet Brits that ain't even the best in their own country. Pathetic.
Mexifraud will be destroyed the minute he meets a decent fighter. Fact.
Good thing he's fighting at 154 then no? His handlers will never put him in with Sergio Martinez, Cotto is starting to show his years. And that about wraps it up.
Exactly. Mexifraud ain't ever getting near Martinez or even an ancient Cotto.
I've heard Golden Boy are already in talks with Colin Lynes, Young Mutley and Bradley Pryce for the Mexifraud's next outing. Fact.
Well their plan to get the UK talking about him has worked, good or bad it's still publicity. I think HBO made is clear that long term they want to see him against JCC2, but in the mean time work on youse guys.
Not sure why you think he's a fraud though, he's not even old enough to drink stateside, and he's about the most active fighter in any kind of spotlight. I guess people want him knocking everyone out in 1-2 rounds, but that's not him and not the temperment his trainers are trying to put on him.
He's a fraud because VD, who is a boxing expert, says all the British fighters are useless frauds, even the ones that win "world" titles, so how can beating the Brits that ain't even known in their own country make you anything other than a padded record useless fraud?
VD is right.
Which means Alvarez is a Mexifraud.
Didn't realize you were making a calculation using the VD standard ;D
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
I'm kind of in the middle between great fighter and hype job. I don't think he's the next sensation but a the same time I think he's a lot better than Fenster is claiming, although clearly much of what he is saying is tongue in cheek and he probably actually stands where I do.
He has potential, could develop into one of the better guys but thus far he doesn't look any better than James Kirkland or Angulo, or Joel Julio and Sechew Powell before them.
It's weird to me that they are saying he's a sensation, I've not seen many of his fights admittedly but none have come close to exciting, let alone sensational.
His stardom is as random to me as if Ricky Burns was a massive PPV star in the UK or if Showtime were headlining David Price..
Clearly the good looks, freckles and red hair on a Mexican is a big part of the appeal.
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Only time I've seen Alvarez look truly impressive was when he stopped Carlos Baldomir.
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
The thing with being 'this good' as you say though is that he doesnt seem to be 'that good'. Perhaps im being harsh but any good up and coming fighter should be beating hatton and rhodes, they are gatekeepers. if he had taken them out in 3 or 4 rounds each fair enough but apart from have alot of pro fights, which he has had a few sd's i dont see what he has done to stand out as an outstanding prospect people on here and max kellerman rate him as
He's vastly further along at 20 than almost anyone else in boxing is or has been recently. So he has 6-7 more years before he reaches his physical peak to learn. But you've identified him properly. He's a prospect.
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
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Originally Posted by Bilbo;983620[B
]It is strange to see him headlining HBO cards. [/B]Showtime fair enough, but a HBO main event seems a little early. But there's a lot of interest I guess and HBO put the fighters on that people want to see.
I do think he will be more Joel Julio than Floyd Mayweather as young prospects go.
Last night's fight was on HBO's Boxing after Dark (B.A.D.), it features fighters like Alvarez, HBO's World Class Boxing (W.C.B.) is a step up from B.A.D., so it's not all that strange to see Alvarez headlining a B.A.D. card.
I believe you're underestimating this kid if you see him as another Joel Julio, he's much better even at 20 then Julio has ever been in his entire career. Canelo might not be the next Pacquiao, but right now he's got an extremely bright future.
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Yeah I generally agree with you Bilbo about Alvarez. He's good but I doubt great. But we'll see. Although I didn't realise this kid was considered good looking? That's a weird one to me...
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Yeah I generally agree with you Bilbo about Alvarez. He's good but I doubt great. But we'll see. Although I didn't realise this kid was considered good looking? That's a weird one to me...
During the interview he looked like a cartoon character I thought.
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
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Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
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Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
The thing with being 'this good' as you say though is that he doesnt seem to be 'that good'. Perhaps im being harsh but any good up and coming fighter should be beating hatton and rhodes, they are gatekeepers. if he had taken them out in 3 or 4 rounds each fair enough but apart from have alot of pro fights, which he has had a few sd's i dont see what he has done to stand out as an outstanding prospect people on here and max kellerman rate him as
He's vastly further along at 20 than almost anyone else in boxing is or has been recently. So he has 6-7 more years before he reaches his physical peak to learn. But you've identified him properly. He's a prospect.
Alvarez is a good modern-day example of your theory that more fights means superior craft, right? Considering the level he is already at - top ten division rated and "world" champion - you must expect him to achieve great things (as long as he doesn't become a drug addict or a drunk or whatever)?
I will confidently predict that Alvarez will be on the slide, if not finished, in 6/7 years time let alone at his peak. Even if he produces great form in the next few years.
37 fights at 20-years-old, already a "world" champion, can sell 15,000 tickets and is headlining HBO productions. He is already in a position where he is forced to face top opposition amongst the "gimmes." Considering losses are more detrimental these days, he is a huge underdog to hand around that long. No?
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
The thing with being 'this good' as you say though is that he doesnt seem to be 'that good'. Perhaps im being harsh but any good up and coming fighter should be beating hatton and rhodes, they are gatekeepers. if he had taken them out in 3 or 4 rounds each fair enough but apart from have alot of pro fights, which he has had a few sd's i dont see what he has done to stand out as an outstanding prospect people on here and max kellerman rate him as
He's vastly further along at 20 than almost anyone else in boxing is or has been recently. So he has 6-7 more years before he reaches his physical peak to learn. But you've identified him properly. He's a prospect.
Alvarez is a good modern-day example of your theory that more fights means superior craft, right? Considering the level he is already at - top ten division rated and "world" champion - you must expect him to achieve great things (as long as he doesn't become a drug addict or a drunk or whatever)?
I will confidently predict that Alvarez will be on the slide, if not finished, in 6/7 years time let alone at his peak. Even if he produces great form in the next few years.
37 fights at 20-years-old, already a "world" champion, can sell 15,000 tickets and is headlining HBO productions. He is already in a position where he is forced to face top opposition amongst the "gimmes." Considering losses are more detrimental these days, he is a huge underdog to hand around that long. No?
More fights means superior craft for a given fighter sure. Meaning Alvarez is further along than Alvarez would be had he fought only twenty times. It says some very sad things about the state of the sport that Alvarez is ranked, let alone some sort of titleholder. The guy is a prospect.
The question is does the guy have natural talent? Thus far he seems to have at least some. He's a satisfactory puncher, he has shown the ability to learn and he seems to like fighting. Of course he doesn't have exceptional speed and his craft is not nearly fully developed yet. He really needs to concentrate on keeping his head moving.
I don't know where he'll be in 6-7 years. We seem to have stopped making quality middles these days.
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
I think of a Berto and how he was rushed into limelight and not properly prepared. Once you get to the top and have yet to refine basics and skill set its all learning on the job against far better comp. Doesn't always turn out well. He's far more refined and 'aware' than Berto I think, more experience on paper in number of bouts but he needs work to hone up, dude has holes. I'm not calling him a Berto but waaaay to much rush to market with some guys. Quality over quantity. Will take time but they better take it easy pushing into a top tier. Bit of a catch 22. He's already a "star" on main stage but adversity will only get deeper and deeper.
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
The thing with being 'this good' as you say though is that he doesnt seem to be 'that good'. Perhaps im being harsh but any good up and coming fighter should be beating hatton and rhodes, they are gatekeepers. if he had taken them out in 3 or 4 rounds each fair enough but apart from have alot of pro fights, which he has had a few sd's i dont see what he has done to stand out as an outstanding prospect people on here and max kellerman rate him as
He's vastly further along at 20 than almost anyone else in boxing is or has been recently. So he has 6-7 more years before he reaches his physical peak to learn. But you've identified him properly. He's a prospect.
Alvarez is a good modern-day example of your theory that more fights means superior craft, right? Considering the level he is already at - top ten division rated and "world" champion - you must expect him to achieve great things (as long as he doesn't become a drug addict or a drunk or whatever)?
I will confidently predict that Alvarez will be on the slide, if not finished, in 6/7 years time let alone at his peak. Even if he produces great form in the next few years.
37 fights at 20-years-old, already a "world" champion, can sell 15,000 tickets and is headlining HBO productions. He is already in a position where he is forced to face top opposition amongst the "gimmes." Considering losses are more detrimental these days, he is a huge underdog to hand around that long. No?
More fights means superior craft for a given fighter sure. Meaning Alvarez is further along than Alvarez would be had he fought only twenty times. It says some very sad things about the state of the sport that Alvarez is ranked, let alone some sort of titleholder. The guy is a prospect.
The question is does the guy have natural talent? Thus far he seems to have at least some. He's a satisfactory puncher, he has shown the ability to learn and he seems to like fighting. Of course he doesn't have exceptional speed and his craft is not nearly fully developed yet. He really needs to concentrate on keeping his head moving.
I don't know where he'll be in 6-7 years. We seem to have stopped making quality middles these days.
So, basically, if he doesn't live up to your standards, even following the old school path, he never had the talent anyway?
How do you regard amateur fights in a boxers development? Alvarez has had 20 amateur fights and now 37 as a pro - so overall 57 fights. A fighter like Juan Guzman had over 300 amateur contests as well as his 30+ pro bouts.
How important is amateur boxing for fight experience? And is it only natural an inexperienced pro should fight more regular?
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
marbleheadmaui
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Yeah I generally agree with you Bilbo about Alvarez. He's good but I doubt great. But we'll see. Although I didn't realise this kid was considered good looking? That's a weird one to me...
During the interview he looked like a cartoon character I thought.
I thought he looks like Archie from the comics.:)
http://www.comic-con.org/common/assets/archie_head.gifhttp://boxersedge.com/wp-content/upl...ez-200x200.jpg
Re: The Hype with Saul Alverez (apologies if spelt incorrectly!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Typical overhyped Mexifraud. Fact.
Guy has everything in his favour - home advantage, ref, judges, crowd, promotion and still can't easily dispatch two mediocre British, in fact less than mediocre, fighters.
24 rounds with two toilet Brits that ain't even the best in their own country. Pathetic.
Mexifraud will be destroyed the minute he meets a decent fighter. Fact.
Wonder what fool claimed Rhodes would give him problems? Sucking his dick and spitting such nonsense like "Alvarez is made for Rhodes" "Rhodes is a great counter puncher". "Rhodes has power in both hands". "Rhodes has never lost at 154" "Rhodes will be his hardest opponent" Blah, blah, blah. Rhodes chump ass couldn't even do as good as Lanardo Tyner. Fool didn't even try. Fucking disgrace he was. If the UK had any sense of pride they will murder Rhodes as soon as he steps off the plane.
