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I dont think Lewis had a bad chin at all really. But at 45, never fast of foot and last fight a give and take war with Vitali its the last thing you want to point to as being in top form.
He should stay retired and maintain self respect and pride he's always shown. And don't EVER let himself be put out front and left standing there pointlessly to promote a hype job like Haye again.
Journeymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
Lewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
Laughable innit. A 34-2 journeymanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterJourneymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
I think the biggest problem for Lennox would be his speed, at 45 you'd got to think his jab and over hand right would be dead slow. He was showing signs of it vs Vitali, but Lewis was badly out of shape for that one. Although looking at Lennox, he looks fresh as a daisy! What's so exciting is that with his hight and reach, he would not have to leap in with punches against Wlad. He can throw bombs over the top, it can be an even fight for a change as far as size.
I think the current state of the heavyweight devision upsets Lennox, he's coming to more and more fights, it's clear part of him wants to come back so badly.
Instead of treating boxing like fantasy football/top trumps he should actually watch the fights and his knowledge of boxing to assess what he's seeing.
He took two massive shots from two strong 240-250lb guys... Not exactly love taps :rolleyes:
If your chin takes 250lbs on the chin I don't think it cares what the guys record or skill level :vd:
Its boxing, not top trumps... The issue wasn't a glass jaw, it was that he got lazy and got caught when he shouldn't of.
Lennox was great fighter, but he's older, slower, and he's happily retired. Its sad he didn't the credit he deserved as he was fighting. He really proved his mettle vs Vitali in the last big time heavyweight fight that lived up to the hype (Brewster vs Liakhovich is still a classic war though).
Something that puzzles me is who would train him?
Lewis isn't stupid enough to try and stage a comeback at his age. That's the bottom line.
He got out at exactly the right time and he knows it.
Um, nope. I said Wlad had beaten ten ranked guys in eleven fights. The eleventh guy? Hasim Rahman. Nice try though.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterJourneymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
Can't answer the question huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
LOL, 34-2 tells you something? So Chavez jr must be a legend at what 44-0? Records without context mean nothing. His biggest win going in was who exactly? Sanders? He'd been drilled by both Tua and Maskaev before that fight. Rahman is a journeyman.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HLaughable innit. A 34-2 journeymanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterJourneymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
There's a guy who gets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Why? Nobody has disagreed with this. It is not the same discussion as to whether Rahman was a Journeyman.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiThere's a guy who gets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I've had serious probs with Rahman in a couple but as you say records needs proper context. That Tua loss was far from clean and though excuses are like A-holes he was doing very well in both bouts before he was caught with bricks outta a dark alley. In no fashion was he then getting pasted like a journeyman? Ring mag had him ranked in top 10, that used to mean something.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLOL, 34-2 tells you something? So Chavez jr must be a legend at what 44-0? Records without context mean nothing. His biggest win going in was who exactly? Sanders? He'd been drilled by both Tua and Maskaev before that fight. Rahman is a journeyman.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HLaughable innit. A 34-2 journeymanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterJourneymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
I think Lewis looking at him as just a journeyman and taking things for granted helped contribute to him staring at the lights.
He was beating both Tua and Maskaev before being stopped, but regardless, losing to those 2 does not make you a journeyman. Beating Corrie Sanders (who levelled Wlad) does not make you a journeyman.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLOL, 34-2 tells you something? So Chavez jr must be a legend at what 44-0? Records without context mean nothing. His biggest win going in was who exactly? Sanders? He'd been drilled by both Tua and Maskaev before that fight. Rahman is a journeyman.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HLaughable innit. A 34-2 journeymanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterJourneymen?Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmauiLewis was knocked out by two different journeymen while in his prime. I can't think of another heavyweight one might argue is great of whom that is true. Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGBIn his prime he'd smash Wlad with ease.
If you think lewis' jaw was glass then you must know less about boxing than I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui
So Rahman is a top contender when you're dealing with Wlad but a journeyman for Lewis? Funny.
So was JCC a journeyman at 44-0. Not being alegend and being a journeyman are not even in the same ball park. Journeyman do not get to 34-2
I think it is a bit harsh to call Rahman a journeyman, although it probably does apply to McCall.
The fact that Lewis was knocked cold by a couple of mediocre fighters does mean he was slightly vulnerable and probably didn't have the best chin the world has ever seen, but I don't see how anyone can say he had a glass jaw.
At the end of the day he avenged his defeats and he retired at the top, which sets him apart from a lot of the great heavyweight champions.
Lewis is unfortunate that he wasn't around when Tyson was in his prime. By the time he got hold of Tyson, Mike was way past his best, overweight and clearly not all that interested anymore. He also met Holyfield on the way down and never fought Bowe either. He was kind of in the right place at the right time and I think that is why some people don't give him the credit he deserves.
I would love to have seen him take on a prime Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe. I think he could have beaten Holyfield and Bowe, but I'm not so sure about a prime Tyson. I think Mike might have been too quick for him.