Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
After Bute, if and when that happens, who is really going to take him into the trenches without going up a division?
Agreed on this (and on everything else in your post -- very well said). I think his toughest potential fight is against Dawson at 175, easily. There's no one else at 168 or 175 who I think is even a 50/50 pick against him. (Excluding Hopkins, since they're not going to fight, but I'd favor the 27 year-old Ward over the 47 year-old version of B-Hop anyway -- not against the 35 year-old version of Hopkins though.)
I'd like to see Bute-Froch before seeing Bute-Ward. I think it's a more competitive and better action fight. Based on the current evidence, I think Ward dominates Bute. But I'd like to see Bute in there with Froch first to better size him up.
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
He's a very good fighter and he's on his way to greatness. If he beats Bute and then a Dirrell his case gets stronger, but it is a little to early yet. Dominate at 168 then success at light-heavy and its sealed imo
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I think you have to say he's great.
Already he's beaten two Calzaghe opponents in Bika and Kessler more decisively than Joe did, he's dominated Carl Froch, Artur Abraham and Allen Green too.
I believe his opposition in absolute terms is better than Sergio Martinez and Nonito Donaire, I rate guys like Kessler and Froch p4p better than Darchinyan, Montiel, Williams, Pavlik etc.
I don't mean acomplishments here I mean literally. A 12 Kessler beats a 12 stone Montiel, Darchinyan or Williams imo if they were all the same size. Better fighter.
I'm a big fan of Ward.
Crazy talk. Montiel is undoubtedly better competition than Kessler or Froch. The only question is whether, in retrospect, he was on the slide when Donaire caught him. But Montiel & Darchinyan at the time Donaire fought him is probably a little better than Kessler & Froch, IMO. The remainder of Ward's competition is better than the remainder of Donaire's though.
I do agree that Martinez is overrated at #3. I think I'd make it PBF, Pac, Donaire, Ward, Martinez at this point.
Getting Donaire up to 126 to fight Gamboa and seeing Ward vs. Bute and then at 175 will answer a lot of questions.
Not sure how Martinez answers any questions given the lack of competition at 160 and his unwillingness to go to 168.
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Yes he has the potentila to be a great fighter like Roy Jones and James Toney.
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
you dont have to be entertaining to be great
which in some ways is a pitty
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
After Bute, if and when that happens, who is really going to take him into the trenches without going up a division?
Agreed on this (and on everything else in your post -- very well said). I think his toughest potential fight is against Dawson at 175, easily. There's no one else at 168 or 175 who I think is even a 50/50 pick against him. (Excluding Hopkins, since they're not going to fight, but I'd favor the 27 year-old Ward over the 47 year-old version of B-Hop anyway -- not against the 35 year-old version of Hopkins though.)
I'd like to see Bute-Froch before seeing Bute-Ward. I think it's a more competitive and better action fight. Based on the current evidence, I think Ward dominates Bute. But I'd like to see Bute in there with Froch first to better size him up.
I want to see Bute versus Froch first too before I size them up. It's too early to tell whether Ward would dominate Bute. What would you say are the main differences between Bute and Ward so far? (1) Ward has faced better opposition. Ward has faced and beat Froch and Kessler, dominating both, Bute hasn't fought either. (2) Against the same competition, Bute has looked better. Bute didn't lose a round against Bika, Ward was staggered in the twelfth. Bute got Miranda out fast, in the third round by KO; Miranda went the distance with Ward and won a few rounds on the way.
Remember Kabrary Salem. He put Calzaghe down before Calzaghe took over. Yet, in his very next fight, Bute knocked him out in 8 and dominated him. Frankly, it's just too early to tell. I'm a big fan of Bute because I love the killer body shots and I like his exciting ko's. Clearly, I'm biased, but I'll admit that if Froch looks good against Bute, I overrated Bute. If Bute KO's Froch, we have a new #1 smw.
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Yes he has the potentila to be a great fighter like Roy Jones and James Toney.
I reckon, one thing Ward won't have is the popularity and fanbase, and unlike Jones, can you imagine Ward being able to sell a PPV?
If Showtime markets a Bute vs. Ward PPV, they'd better do the fight in Quebec, because it won't draw flies here in the States.
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
After Bute, if and when that happens, who is really going to take him into the trenches without going up a division?
Agreed on this (and on everything else in your post -- very well said). I think his toughest potential fight is against Dawson at 175, easily. There's no one else at 168 or 175 who I think is even a 50/50 pick against him. (Excluding Hopkins, since they're not going to fight, but I'd favor the 27 year-old Ward over the 47 year-old version of B-Hop anyway -- not against the 35 year-old version of Hopkins though.)
I'd like to see Bute-Froch before seeing Bute-Ward. I think it's a more competitive and better action fight. Based on the current evidence, I think Ward dominates Bute. But I'd like to see Bute in there with Froch first to better size him up.
There are major talks of Bute-Froch at the moment, it's everywhere on the french sport networks, for the moment, negociation are one fight in Montreal in front of 15-20K persons (based on Bute's past fights) and a revenge fight signed for Nottingham. I am pretty sure that this fight is a sealed deal, it's been in the airs far too long and I wouldn'T be surprised if the in-between the fight and its revenge there wouldn't be a fight against the Danish Vicking to stir up another belt in the pot (admitting he'll win against Stieglitz)
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nameless
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
After Bute, if and when that happens, who is really going to take him into the trenches without going up a division?
Agreed on this (and on everything else in your post -- very well said). I think his toughest potential fight is against Dawson at 175, easily. There's no one else at 168 or 175 who I think is even a 50/50 pick against him. (Excluding Hopkins, since they're not going to fight, but I'd favor the 27 year-old Ward over the 47 year-old version of B-Hop anyway -- not against the 35 year-old version of Hopkins though.)
I'd like to see Bute-Froch before seeing Bute-Ward. I think it's a more competitive and better action fight. Based on the current evidence, I think Ward dominates Bute. But I'd like to see Bute in there with Froch first to better size him up.
There are major talks of Bute-Froch at the moment, it's everywhere on the french sport networks, for the moment, negociation are one fight in Montreal in front of 15-20K persons (based on Bute's past fights) and a revenge fight signed for Nottingham. I am pretty sure that this fight is a sealed deal, it's been in the airs far too long and I
wouldn'T be surprised if the in-between the fight and its revenge there wouldn't be a fight against the Danish Vicking to stir up another belt in the pot (admitting he'll win against Stieglitz)
I thought it was Montreal and then the very next fight - Nottingham?
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
erics44
you dont have to be entertaining to be great
which in some ways is a pitty
Probably not, but when you get right down to it, isn't that what "prize fighting" is all about = entertainment? Who the fuck wants to watch fights that don't entertain you?
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
It's odd, I really don't find Ward un-entertaining.
Maybe the Green fight was a little teipd but I really enjoyed his fights with Kessler, Abraham, Bika, Miranda, Froch etc..
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
It's odd, I really don't find Ward un-entertaining.
Maybe the Green fight was a little teipd but I really enjoyed his fights with Kessler, Abraham, Bika, Miranda, Froch etc..
Ward seems to be gaining a bit of popularity, but he's still a grade "B" movie as far as entertainment. He lost me as being any kind of fan at all in the beginning of his career with that SOG bullshit, and that gang infested sewer of Oakland, California. I have zero interest in watching his fights.
Re: Is Andre Ward a "Great" fighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mars_ax
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jimanuel Boogustus
It's odd, I really don't find Ward un-entertaining.
Maybe the Green fight was a little teipd but I really enjoyed his fights with Kessler, Abraham, Bika, Miranda, Froch etc..
Ward seems to be gaining a bit of popularity, but he's still a grade "B" movie as far as entertainment. He lost me as being any kind of fan at all in the beginning of his career with that SOG bullshit, and
that gang infested sewer of Oakland, California. I have zero interest in watching his fights.
You're from East Texas and talking that kind of shit? I had to spend a week and a half in Beaumont once -- most depressing place I've ever been (and the smelliest).
Oakland is a geographically big city. It's also 10 minutes from San Francisco (what do you have - Houston? LOL). There are big regional parks full of redwood trees and extremely wealthy areas with top restaurants, shops, great architecture, and beautiful bay views. The violence and gang stuff is totally limited to a few areas and is waaay overplayed by the media. If you didn't purposely venture into those areas, you'd have no idea it existed in Oakland.
