Why did the so called intelligent Ali , call holmes out ? or was he just as dumb as most boxers ? or did he need the money ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
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Why did the so called intelligent Ali , call holmes out ? or was he just as dumb as most boxers ? or did he need the money ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
How did they allow Ali to fight anybody after the Thriller In Manila? I have no doubt Ali's condition today would be far better if he had retired in October 1975.
Ali "calling" Holmes out was all a promotional ploy, King, Holmes promoter came to Muhammad with the fight, Ali was offered 8 Million to fight Holmes and took the money out of greed, but back to my main point, they put him through rigorous tests and his results were way less then satisfactory, yet they still licensed him, Ali should have been protected from himself, same as many other fighters, yet no one ever does anything about it, as long as a legend with a name isn't full blind, can utter a few recognizable words, and walk around he'll get a license in order to make people a profit, it needs to be stopped it's a bigger problem then corrupt judges, and yet nothing is ever done about itQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlWhy did the so called intelligent Ali , call holmes out ? or was he just as dumb as most boxers ? or did he need the money ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
The 2 pillars of the community.Quote:
The WBC and Don King
Many in the boxing community have accused the WBC of bending its rules to suit powerful promoter Don King. As journalist Jack Newfield says, "...[WBC President Jose Sulaiman] became more King's junior partner than his independent regulator." Another journalist, Peter Heller, echoes that comment: "Sulaiman...became little more than an errand boy for Don King." Heller also quotes British promoter Mickey Duff as saying, "My complaint is that José Sulaimán is not happy his friend Don King is the biggest promoter in boxing. Sulaiman will only be happy when Don King is the only promoter in boxing."
The actions of the WBC give some credence to this charge. A partial list:
When Leon Spinks won the WBA and WBC Heavyweight championships from Muhammad Ali in 1978, the WBC stripped Leon Spinks of his title. José Sulaimán said the WBC did so because Spinks was signed for a rematch with Ali instead of fighting a Don King fighter, Ken Norton. Norton then defended the WBC title against another Don King fighter, Larry Holmes, who won the belt.
In 1983, WBC Super Featherweight champion Bobby Chacon was signed to fight the WBC's mandatory challenger for his title, Cornelius Boza Edwards. Promoter Don King, however, wanted his fighter, Héctor Camacho, to fight for the title. Even though WBC rules said the mandatory challenger should receive a shot at the title, the WBC withdrew its sanction from the fight and then stripped Chacon for refusing to fight Camacho.
Under WBC rules, a fighter is supposed to defend his title against a mandatory challenger at least once a year. For fighters controlled by Don King, this rule is often ignored. Alexis Argüello, and Carlos Zarate, for instance, were allowed to ignore their obligations to their mandatory contenders while WBC champions.
While WBC Super Featherweight champion, Julio César Chávez wanted to fight top contender Roger Mayweather for a promoter other than Don King. The WBC withheld its sanction of the fight until Don King became promoter.
When Mike Tyson lost to James "Buster" Douglas during a WBC and WBA Heavyweight championship defense, Don King convinced the WBC (along with the WBA) to withhold recognition of Douglas as heavyweight champion. King claimed that Tyson had actually won the fight due to knocking down Douglas and the referee giving Douglas a "long count." Referee Octavio Meyran, in a sworn affidavit, claims that King threatened to have the WBC withhold payment of Meyran's hotel bill if Meyran did not support King's protest. Because of intense public pressure, both the WBA and WBC backed down and recognized Douglas as champion.
In 1992, the WBC threatened to strip Evander Holyfield of his title for defending it against Riddick Bowe instead of Razor Ruddock. Holyfield obtained a court order to stop the organization. In a taped deposition for the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, Holyfield stated that the WBC wanted him to defend his championship against Ruddock because Ruddock was managed by Don King.[5]
During the 1990s, the WBC did not allow its champions to engage in unification bouts with WBO champions. However, in 1993, the Don King promoted super-middleweight showdown between WBC champion Nigel Benn and WBO champion Chris Eubank was recognized as a title unification fight by the WBC. Ironically, both men fought to a draw and each retained their respective titles.
When Mike Tyson was released from prison in 1995, the WBC installed him as their #1 contender for their heavyweight championship. Tyson had not fought in four years, but was promoted by Don King.
In 2000, King-promoted Julio César Chávez was the mandatory challenger for Kostya Tszyu's WBC super lightweight title. Chávez was the mandatory challenger though he had not fought at super lightweight for two years, had recently lost to journeyman boxer Willie Wise, and had not beaten a top contender since losing his first fight to Oscar De La Hoya in 1996.
In 2005, the WBC stripped Javier Castillejo of his super welterweight title for fighting Fernando Vargas instead of Don King-promoted Ricardo Mayorga. Mayorga somehow qualified for a shot at the super welterweight title despite the fact that he had never fought at that weight limit and had lost two of his last three fights.
Because it's ALI we should feel outrage that a young gun dared to fight him towards his latter years?? Ali was the the Ring & WBA World Heavyweight champion and 37 years old (a year older than wlad is now!)
-Patterson was 37 when ali faced him!!
-Liston was probably 40.
-Chuvalo was nearly 40.
-Foster was in his mid 30's.
etc
You want to talk distasteful? then lets talk about a 47 yr old Jerry Quarry (9 years of inactivie) vs Ron Cramer! A very distastful "Event" that should never of been allowed.
Age is not the issue, it was the amount of wear and tear PHILOSOPHER. Sonny went 15-1 after the defeat to Ali, so he was far from finished.
Ali was retired at 37, and actually read the facts and his age is the least of the issues at hand, Ali technically wasn't even medically cleared and yet was still given a license, that's the problem, just cause you have a vendetta against Muhammad doesn't take away that he most likely suffered permanent damage from this fight and his condition is worse than what it would have been had someone stepped up and said, NO we can't allow you to take this fight, I said that Ali clearly isn't the only one who's been put into this situation and that officials need to do their jobs and stop this shit from happeningQuote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER
Ali should have ______, Ali should have ______.......it's all hindsight Evander Holyfield still wants to fight and he's still getting licesed after several and I mean SEVERAL events where he should have called it a career: the fights vs Bowe, the Moorer fight where he thought he was having a heart attack, the Toney fight where he injued his shoulders, etc.
The only redeeming thing about the Holyfield situation is that both Klitschko brothers have stated that they would never fight Evander for any amount of money out of respect for him and worries about his safety.
that only backs up what I'm saying, Holyfield shouldn't be licensed at all, should have been denied a license a long time agoQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Everything about sonny liston is pretty shady! His birth, his mob ties, his death....Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
His record has to be taken with an air of scepticism. So do the ali fight's too. He quit on his stool in the first with the scores evenly matched and the 2nd fight was laughable!
I think age has a lot to do with it, that and the fact that his defensive arsenal in his 30's mainly consisted of laying on the ropes and turning himself into a human punchbag! You want to talk fighters fighting with 'wear and tear' or 'medical issues'?? Try ali's supposed career best performance, the virtuoso performance ppl always allude to to highlight peak ali's powers, cleveland williams:Quote:
Ali was retired at 37, and actually read the facts and his age is the least of the issues at hand, Ali technically wasn't even medically cleared and yet was still given a license, that's the problem, just cause you have a vendetta against Muhammad doesn't take away that he most likely suffered permanent damage from this fight and his condition is worse than what it would have been had someone stepped up and said, NO we can't allow you to take this fight, I said that Ali clearly isn't the only one who's been put into this situation and that officials need to do their jobs and stop this shit from happening
Williams had been inactive the entire year of 1965 while recovering from gunshot wound. Williams was shot with a .357 Magnum in the abdomen, barely survived, and suffered permanent kidney damage, a loss of over ten feet of his small intestine, and nerve damage from the bullet which affected his left leg above the knee, causing it to atrophy as a result. 10 months later he fought ali!! Ali was beating up on near cripples!
Oh ya and let's not forget ali vs a 47 year old 190lb archie moore who at that point in his life was acting in hollywod movies playing slaves!!
Distasteful is a 47 yr old Jerry Quarry (9 years of inactivie) vs Ron Cramer! Not linear champ ali fighting holmes for the WBA belt...
Distasteful is calling joe frazier an ugly gorilla or 'all white men devils'....Distasteful is parading around in a silly pantomine outfit whilst his countrymen are dying in vietnam! Distasteful is puppeteering for elijah muhammed! Ali v holmes was not distasteful it was a changing of the guard fight, nothing more. Ali fought men who had no business fighting him....or indeed even boxing!!
alı had takken a specıal weıght loss drug and magıcally got down to 216 for the fıght---ıt fooled everybody by severely blockıng nutrıent absorptıon as well as dehydratıng hım. he looked so great ıt fooled hım too ınto thınkııng he couold do ıt agaınst holmes. thıs weıght loss drug had alot to do wıth hıs beıng confıdent he could wın thıs fıght.
Agreed, Riddick Bowe was stammering and slurring through sentences after the Hoyfield matches as was Evander and boxing just doesn't need another punch drunk poster boy, especially consdering what ESPN is attempting to do with football.....which is ban it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
The fights with Ali are what they are, Ali was better.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHEREverything about sonny liston is pretty shady! His birth, his mob ties, his death....Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
His record has to be taken with an air of scepticism. So do the ali fight's too. He quit on his stool in the first with the scores evenly matched and the 2nd fight was laughable!
The winning streak that Liston put together was impressive and genuine.
Was it?Quote:
The fights with Ali are what they are, Ali was better.
The winning streak that Liston put together was impressive and genuine
Willis Earls finished with a career record of 12-15
Roger Rischer 29-13
Sonny Moore 24-38
etc etc LOL.
Anyway, im sorry if i sound off about ali but i tend to avoid the hyperbole and stick to facts.