Sergio Martinez vs. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. - Saturday night fight/chat thread

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Fenster

It shows how pathetic boxing is when everyone thinks the champion can't get a fair decision and the other guy is juiced to his eyeballs.

Ignoring all the shady stuff that surrounds Jr... His form really isn't that impressive. Yeah he's improved a lot but he's never been anywhere near someone with Martinez class. Who is the best fighter he's faced?Zbik, Rubio, Lee? Martinez would wipe the floor with these guys. Barker and Macklin would beat these guys.

Martinez KO 9

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Well said. BUT...the very likelihood that Chavez is juiced and will have the judges/HBO clearly on his side, makes me feel Martinez almost has to win by KO. That is a lot of pressure. Hope he pulls it off, but i have a nagging feeling he will either get worn down or get robbed.

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The closer this fight gets the more a victory for segio is the only outcome I can see....martinez battered pavlik, in albeit a close fight but I think that pavlik was better and hit harder than chavez...if andy lee can outbox ya over seven, then can sergio and he's not gassing. Hell junior wasn't able to ko zbik, and sturm isn't exactly a power punchin machine and made him quit after ten...if it wasn't for the name and juniors insane size I think people would laugh at this matchup....I mean what has junior actually done??? But yeah everything is going to favor chavez so I can certainly see an outright robber

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Fenster

It shows how pathetic boxing is when everyone thinks the champion can't get a fair decision and the other guy is juiced to his eyeballs.

Ignoring all the shady stuff that surrounds Jr... His form really isn't that impressive. Yeah he's improved a lot but he's never been anywhere near someone with Martinez class. Who is the best fighter he's faced?Zbik, Rubio, Lee? Martinez would wipe the floor with these guys. Barker and Macklin would beat these guys.

Martinez KO 9

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Well said. BUT...the very likelihood that Chavez is juiced and will have the judges/HBO clearly on his side, makes me feel Martinez almost has to win by KO. That is a lot of pressure. Hope he pulls it off, but i have a nagging feeling he will either get worn down or get robbed.

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The closer this fight gets the more a victory for segio is the only outcome I can see....martinez battered pavlik, in albeit a close fight but I think that pavlik was better and hit harder than chavez...if andy lee can outbox ya over seven, then can sergio and he's not gassing. Hell junior wasn't able to ko zbik, and sturm isn't exactly a power punchin machine and made him quit after ten...if it wasn't for the name and juniors insane size I think people would laugh at this matchup....I mean what has junior actually done??? But yeah everything is going to favor chavez so I can certainly see an outright robber

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I agree. Martinez is a much, MUCH better fighter. And after seeing 24/7...Martinez putting on a clinic would not surprise me a bit. But boxing isn't the cleanest sport and we have all seen some crazy bs happen.

7 day weigh in: martinez 167 lbs
7 day weigh in: chavez jr 167 lbs

What does Martinez normally walk around at, does he have to cut much to make 160 considering the claim that he could still fight at light middleweight

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



This is from 2 months ago, so I hope they've continued the regimen of random testing. Of course, there's all kinds of ways to cheat on a urine sample. I would imagine Jose Sulaiman would be only too willing to help Junior cheat on a piss test.... regardless of what he had to do to get the mission accomplished.

:-X

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



This is from 2 months ago, so I hope they've continued the regimen of random testing. Of course, there's all kinds of ways to cheat on a urine sample. I would imagine Jose Sulaiman would be only too willing to help Junior cheat on a piss test.... regardless of what he had to do to get the mission accomplished.

:-X

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Tito wouldnt you enjoy the fight more if you at least pretended that everything was legit, at least until something illegal does come out?

I get where you are coming from and I have read your points many times on the matter but I have to imagine that at least for the sake of your own entertainment why not just enjoy it? unless constant bashing and negatvity is entertaining to you?

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



This is from 2 months ago, so I hope they've continued the regimen of random testing. Of course, there's all kinds of ways to cheat on a urine sample. I would imagine Jose Sulaiman would be only too willing to help Junior cheat on a piss test.... regardless of what he had to do to get the mission accomplished.

:-X

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Tito wouldnt you enjoy the fight more if you at least pretended that everything was legit, at least until something illegal does come out?

I get where you are coming from and I have read your points many times on the matter but I have to imagine that at least for the sake of your own entertainment why not just enjoy it? unless constant bashing and negatvity is entertaining to you?

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Oh I'll enjoy the fight just fine.... thanks for your concern. ;)

But I see your point about the "pretending" stuff. So you would rather we just ignore all the red flags that could make this fight controversial in one way or another? You know... "little" stuff, such as:

1. Junior's already checkered past with doping issues.
2. Jose Sulaiman's blatant corrupt ways, especially to favor Mexican fighters (see: other threads on the subject).
3. Junior's penchant for coming in (unexplicably) at 20+ pounds over the weigh-in weight. And all the mystery over his fight-time weights.
4. Junior's well-known coddled past, avoiding any real opposition until now, with well over 40+ fights under his belt.
5. Papa's well-known "chumminess" with Sulaiman, kind of a Mexican mafia, if you will... who's not above pulling a few strings to ensure Junior's following in daddy's footsteps.

Yeah.... I guess I could "pretend" everything's gonna be legit.
But rest assured.... one way or another, I plan to thoroughly enjoy the fight, come Sept 15th.

;)

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



This is from 2 months ago, so I hope they've continued the regimen of random testing. Of course, there's all kinds of ways to cheat on a urine sample. I would imagine Jose Sulaiman would be only too willing to help Junior cheat on a piss test.... regardless of what he had to do to get the mission accomplished.

:-X

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Tito wouldnt you enjoy the fight more if you at least pretended that everything was legit, at least until something illegal does come out?

I get where you are coming from and I have read your points many times on the matter but I have to imagine that at least for the sake of your own entertainment why not just enjoy it? unless constant bashing and negatvity is entertaining to you?

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Oh I'll enjoy the fight just fine.... thanks for your concern. ;)

But I see your point about the "pretending" stuff. So you would rather we just ignore all the red flags that could make this fight controversial in one way or another? You know... "little" stuff, such as:

1. Junior's already checkered past with doping issues.
2. Jose Sulaiman's blatant corrupt ways, especially to favor Mexican fighters (see: other threads on the subject).
3. Junior's penchant for coming in (unexplicably) at 20+ pounds over the weigh-in weight. And all the mystery over his fight-time weights.
4. Junior's well-known coddled past, avoiding any real opposition until now, with well over 40+ fights under his belt.
5. Papa's well-known "chumminess" with Sulaiman, kind of a Mexican mafia, if you will... who's not above pulling a few strings to ensure Junior's following in daddy's footsteps.

Yeah.... I guess I could "pretend" everything's gonna be legit.
But rest assured.... one way or another, I plan to thoroughly enjoy the fight, come Sept 15th.

;)

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I understand all that and I am not dismissing it, so even if Chavez wins lets say itll happen with an asterik not matter how it happens. But my questions is a serious one, wouldnt you rather talk about styles or what Martinez has to do to win or what chances Chavez has??

I was having this conversation with my Dad the other day because he also just focuses on the fact that the fights are "fixed" That Chavez has never fought anyone worth watching (he calls them "costalitos" Im sure you've heard the term) And I ask him too, the fight has been made, they are going to fight regardless, and ultimately you are going to watch the fight anyway so why not just enjoy it until its over.

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



This is from 2 months ago, so I hope they've continued the regimen of random testing. Of course, there's all kinds of ways to cheat on a urine sample. I would imagine Jose Sulaiman would be only too willing to help Junior cheat on a piss test.... regardless of what he had to do to get the mission accomplished.

:-X

---

Tito wouldnt you enjoy the fight more if you at least pretended that everything was legit, at least until something illegal does come out?

I get where you are coming from and I have read your points many times on the matter but I have to imagine that at least for the sake of your own entertainment why not just enjoy it? unless constant bashing and negatvity is entertaining to you?

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Oh I'll enjoy the fight just fine.... thanks for your concern. ;)

But I see your point about the "pretending" stuff. So you would rather we just ignore all the red flags that could make this fight controversial in one way or another? You know... "little" stuff, such as:

1. Junior's already checkered past with doping issues.
2. Jose Sulaiman's blatant corrupt ways, especially to favor Mexican fighters (see: other threads on the subject).
3. Junior's penchant for coming in (unexplicably) at 20+ pounds over the weigh-in weight. And all the mystery over his fight-time weights.
4. Junior's well-known coddled past, avoiding any real opposition until now, with well over 40+ fights under his belt.
5. Papa's well-known "chumminess" with Sulaiman, kind of a Mexican mafia, if you will... who's not above pulling a few strings to ensure Junior's following in daddy's footsteps.

Yeah.... I guess I could "pretend" everything's gonna be legit.
But rest assured.... one way or another, I plan to thoroughly enjoy the fight, come Sept 15th.

;)

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I understand all that and I am not dismissing it, so even if Chavez wins lets say itll happen with an asterik not matter how it happens. But my questions is a serious one, wouldnt you rather talk about styles or what Martinez has to do to win or what chances Chavez has??

I was having this conversation with my Dad the other day because he also just focuses on the fact that the fights are "fixed" That Chavez has never fought anyone worth watching (he calls them "costalitos" Im sure you've heard the term) And I ask him too, the fight has been made, they are going to fight regardless, and ultimately you are going to watch the fight anyway so why not just enjoy it until its over.

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I like to keep everything in perspective. But yes.... I also like to discuss the fight strictly from a technical standpoint. Junior's biggest asset for the fight is going to be his chin. In every other category.... Martinez has the huge advantage. The fight should be entertaining, 'cause it won't be either a chess match, or a "clutch-fest". Junior has a little pop.... but Martinez has been in with huge punchers before, so again it's nothing to fret about.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



This is from 2 months ago, so I hope they've continued the regimen of random testing. Of course, there's all kinds of ways to cheat on a urine sample. I would imagine Jose Sulaiman would be only too willing to help Junior cheat on a piss test.... regardless of what he had to do to get the mission accomplished.

:-X

---

Tito wouldnt you enjoy the fight more if you at least pretended that everything was legit, at least until something illegal does come out?

I get where you are coming from and I have read your points many times on the matter but I have to imagine that at least for the sake of your own entertainment why not just enjoy it? unless constant bashing and negatvity is entertaining to you?

---

Oh I'll enjoy the fight just fine.... thanks for your concern. ;)

But I see your point about the "pretending" stuff. So you would rather we just ignore all the red flags that could make this fight controversial in one way or another? You know... "little" stuff, such as:

1. Junior's already checkered past with doping issues.
2. Jose Sulaiman's blatant corrupt ways, especially to favor Mexican fighters (see: other threads on the subject).
3. Junior's penchant for coming in (unexplicably) at 20+ pounds over the weigh-in weight. And all the mystery over his fight-time weights.
4. Junior's well-known coddled past, avoiding any real opposition until now, with well over 40+ fights under his belt.
5. Papa's well-known "chumminess" with Sulaiman, kind of a Mexican mafia, if you will... who's not above pulling a few strings to ensure Junior's following in daddy's footsteps.

Yeah.... I guess I could "pretend" everything's gonna be legit.
But rest assured.... one way or another, I plan to thoroughly enjoy the fight, come Sept 15th.

;)

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I understand all that and I am not dismissing it, so even if Chavez wins lets say itll happen with an asterik not matter how it happens. But my questions is a serious one, wouldnt you rather talk about styles or what Martinez has to do to win or what chances Chavez has??

I was having this conversation with my Dad the other day because he also just focuses on the fact that the fights are "fixed" That Chavez has never fought anyone worth watching (he calls them "costalitos" Im sure you've heard the term) And I ask him too, the fight has been made, they are going to fight regardless, and ultimately you are going to watch the fight anyway so why not just enjoy it until its over.

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I like to keep everything in perspective. But yes.... I also like to discuss the fight strictly from a technical standpoint. Junior's biggest asset for the fight is going to be his chin. In every other category.... Martinez has the huge advantage. The fight should be entertaining, 'cause it won't be either a chess match, or a "clutch-fest". Junior has a little pop.... but Martinez has been in with huge punchers before, so again it's nothing to fret about.

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Nothing to fret about because you want Chavez to lose, thats cool I can understand rooting for your favorite or against the guy you dont like. Trust me I understand what you are talking about with all the suspicions I just think it takes away from the excitement and buildup for yourself...not that im worried about you or anything ;)

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Onix

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



This is from 2 months ago, so I hope they've continued the regimen of random testing. Of course, there's all kinds of ways to cheat on a urine sample. I would imagine Jose Sulaiman would be only too willing to help Junior cheat on a piss test.... regardless of what he had to do to get the mission accomplished.

:-X

---

Tito wouldnt you enjoy the fight more if you at least pretended that everything was legit, at least until something illegal does come out?

I get where you are coming from and I have read your points many times on the matter but I have to imagine that at least for the sake of your own entertainment why not just enjoy it? unless constant bashing and negatvity is entertaining to you?

---

Oh I'll enjoy the fight just fine.... thanks for your concern. ;)

But I see your point about the "pretending" stuff. So you would rather we just ignore all the red flags that could make this fight controversial in one way or another? You know... "little" stuff, such as:

1. Junior's already checkered past with doping issues.
2. Jose Sulaiman's blatant corrupt ways, especially to favor Mexican fighters (see: other threads on the subject).
3. Junior's penchant for coming in (unexplicably) at 20+ pounds over the weigh-in weight. And all the mystery over his fight-time weights.
4. Junior's well-known coddled past, avoiding any real opposition until now, with well over 40+ fights under his belt.
5. Papa's well-known "chumminess" with Sulaiman, kind of a Mexican mafia, if you will... who's not above pulling a few strings to ensure Junior's following in daddy's footsteps.

Yeah.... I guess I could "pretend" everything's gonna be legit.
But rest assured.... one way or another, I plan to thoroughly enjoy the fight, come Sept 15th.

;)

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I understand all that and I am not dismissing it, so even if Chavez wins lets say itll happen with an asterik not matter how it happens. But my questions is a serious one, wouldnt you rather talk about styles or what Martinez has to do to win or what chances Chavez has??

I was having this conversation with my Dad the other day because he also just focuses on the fact that the fights are "fixed" That Chavez has never fought anyone worth watching (he calls them "costalitos" Im sure you've heard the term) And I ask him too, the fight has been made, they are going to fight regardless, and ultimately you are going to watch the fight anyway so why not just enjoy it until its over.

---

I like to keep everything in perspective. But yes.... I also like to discuss the fight strictly from a technical standpoint. Junior's biggest asset for the fight is going to be his chin. In every other category.... Martinez has the huge advantage. The fight should be entertaining, 'cause it won't be either a chess match, or a "clutch-fest". Junior has a little pop.... but Martinez has been in with huge punchers before, so again it's nothing to fret about.

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Nothing to fret about because you want Chavez to lose, thats cool I can understand rooting for your favorite or against the guy you dont like. Trust me I understand what you are talking about with all the suspicions I just think it takes away from the excitement and buildup for yourself...not that im worried about you or anything ;)

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I think you're a bit TOO focused on my well-being. ;)

Not that that's a bad thing..... just a little weird.

[QUOTE=TitoFan;1097632][QUOTE=Onix;1097630][QUOTE=TitoFan;1097625][QUOTE=Onix;1097618][QUOTE=TitoFan;1097598][QUOTE=Onix;1097596]

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Sergio Martinez, Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. both have random drug tests come back negative - ESPN



I think you're a bit TOO focused on my well-being. ;)

Not that that's a bad thing..... just a little weird.

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Im asking about your point of view, not your feelings

haters gonna hate... and if chavez wins then there's already a built in excuse: he MUST be doping.

Aren't you supposed to be "ignoring" me?

Question for you all, if in most eyes Martinez wins 7 to 5 and you see a judge scoring 117 to 111 for Chavez for Chavez to get the split nod. Would you not agree that there was a great fix involved?

I can't even really justify that score and I dread it. I can see clearly if Martinez goes to 12 rounds that somehow at least one judge will give a score of 117-111 Chavez. If it occurred for Abril and Campillo against much less 'named' opponents why not to the son of a man who got dominated by Sweet Pete?

I said this before and I really meant it. I am terrified of this box going the 12 rounds and being left in the hand of judges.