Tyson Fury wants to fight the UFC Heavyweight champion?

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Haha, kind of a neat video I guess but taking raw data from simple tests like that isn't exactly the end all measure of athletecism. All that proves is that he's in great shape, and very powerful. I'm sure most NFL players would put up huge numbers in a setting like that as well. It's the intangibles and finesse, individual skillsets which really seperate elite guys from those who are merely physical beasts. I'd bet all kinds of phenomenally talented athletes wouldn't score very highly at all on tests like that, but so what.

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No doubt, I'm not saying he's a Bo Jackson or a Michael Phelps, but the guy is an incredible athletic specimen and a cardio machine. The fight with Junior was a bad indication because I think there were a lot of nerves involved and the grappling game is INCREDIBLY taxing no matter how conditioned you are. You take a supremely conditioned boxer like Mayweather and have him grapple with guys and he'll gas out, it's just a different world.

But I do agree that saying Cain would beat Tyson in boxing is going a little far. Cain had no striking training until he was out of college in 2005 or 06, so if Tyson Fury was to lose to him in a boxing match I think that would be VERY embarrassing.

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Fury had his first amateur fight in 2005 (I think). He fought Price in 2006 but only had around 10 fights.

Fury wants to fight Vitali this year, he will not waste his time with anything else.

Stupid of furry since its two diffrent worlds and he'd probably just get taken down and submitted, just like cain would lose to any decent boxers. I'm pretty sure dos santos said he'd knock out klitscko in a boxing fight, which is just as stupid.

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Originally Posted by armin

Stupid of furry since its two diffrent worlds and he'd probably just get taken down and submitted, just like cain would lose to any decent boxers. I'm pretty sure dos santos said he'd knock out klitscko in a boxing fight, which is just as stupid.

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Yeah, I couldn't help but remembering that comment by Junior when I was watching him fight. That is clearly far more ludicrous than Tyson Fury simply issuing a challenge like this for publicity. Klitschko would absolutely torture either of those guys standing up, it would be inhumane.

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Originally Posted by ross

Fury had his first amateur fight in 2005 (I think). He fought Price in 2006 but only had around 10 fights.

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Ah, don't know much about Fury like I said.

Even still, Cain trains striking for MMA, which is kickboxing and strikes to help close distance and set up takedowns. Fury has been training nothing but boxing for boxing. So I think it would be very far fetched to believe Cain would have anything other than a puncher's chance against Fury.

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Originally Posted by ross

In mma you have so many different disciplines you can fall on if one is failing. In boxing you only have punching.

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That was true for MMA years ago, but the sport has evolved now to the point where you have to be REALLY, REALLY good at everything. If you have a weakness, someone's going to exploit it.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by ross

Fury had his first amateur fight in 2005 (I think). He fought Price in 2006 but only had around 10 fights.

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Ah, don't know much about Fury like I said.

Even still, Cain trains striking for MMA, which is kickboxing and strikes to help close distance and set up takedowns. Fury has been training nothing but boxing for boxing. So I think it would be very far fetched to believe Cain would have anything other than a puncher's chance against Fury.

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For clarification, this is what I was implying. Cain has a pretty decent punch power, and I don't think Fury has the best chin. So like I said, if they boxed, I genuinely wouldn't be stunned if Cain stopped him. More my low opinion of Fury than anything else.

I really don't know enough about Fury to make a judgement. Cain hits like a truck though, his punch was measured on Sport Science as having 2230lbs of force or around there. All it takes is one on the button.

I thought it was disrespectful of JDS to say he could KO a Klitschko, but even he wasn't hurling insults at them.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

I thought it was disrespectful of JDS to say he could KO a Klitschko, but even he wasn't hurling insults at them.

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It's an insult in itself to say that, moreso than Fury being the twit he is to get some attention. To suggest he would even have a prayer of getting out of the first round of a boxing match with either Klitschko is assinine. It would be like Tyson Fury saying he'd slam Cain to the ground and choke him out, no different at all in fact.

Bit different. JDS trains boxing extensively. Fury has no grappling skills whatsoever as far as I know.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Bit different. JDS trains boxing extensively. Fury has no grappling skills whatsoever as far as I know.

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So Fury is a boxer that is shit and only a contender, whereas "JDS" is an mma champ who trains boxing "extensively" so that makes an even fight, lets get it on!;D

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Bit different. JDS trains boxing extensively. Fury has no grappling skills whatsoever as far as I know.

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Maybe, but not much. Grappling is a far more organic thing than boxing, you can bet Fury would be able to handle most people who didn't train seriously on the ground, just on account of being huge and bullish. The skillset required is FAR easier to hone and a lot, if not most of it, boils down to genetics. Wheras JDS may train in boxing, but he's never had a pro fight, or dedicated a whole training camp to just dealing with punches. I'd imagine he's never sparred a relevant HW boxer etc. Klitschko has been doing that for his entire life and it the best big man in the world at it. It's absolutely ridiculous for Dos Santos to have said that.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Maybe, but not much. Grappling is a far more organic thing than boxing, you can bet Fury would be able to handle most people who didn't train seriously on the ground, just on account of being huge and bullish. The skillset required is FAR easier to hone and a lot, if not most of it, boils down to genetics. Wheras JDS may train in boxing, but he's never had a pro fight, or dedicated a whole training camp to just dealing with punches. I'd imagine he's never sparred a relevant HW boxer etc. Klitschko has been doing that for his entire life and it the best big man in the world at it. It's absolutely ridiculous for Dos Santos to have said that.

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Not denying it was rediculous for Dos Santos to say that. I think it's downright chicken-shit to call a guy out when you know full well you would never be able to fight him.

You're underestimating grappling though. I've trained grappling, not to any impressive degree, but enough to know that being huge and bullish works against you against anyone who knows what they are doing because grappling is about skill, technique and leverage, not just simply using brute strength which will tire you out in 30 seconds. Big, bullish guys are at an even bigger advantage on their back. If a big guy like Fury gets put on his back, he ain't getting back up.

I think it runs parallel to boxing in terms of skill and technique required. A guy going on "organic" grappling skills will get schooled by someone who knows what they are doing, much like someone going on "organic" punching instincts will get schooled by someone who trains and understands the sweet science.

All I'm saying is JDS has an astronomically larger boxing skillbase than Fury would have a grappling skillbase.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Maybe, but not much. Grappling is a far more organic thing than boxing, you can bet Fury would be able to handle most people who didn't train seriously on the ground, just on account of being huge and bullish. The skillset required is FAR easier to hone and a lot, if not most of it, boils down to genetics. Wheras JDS may train in boxing, but he's never had a pro fight, or dedicated a whole training camp to just dealing with punches. I'd imagine he's never sparred a relevant HW boxer etc. Klitschko has been doing that for his entire life and it the best big man in the world at it. It's absolutely ridiculous for Dos Santos to have said that.

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Not denying it was rediculous for Dos Santos to say that. I think it's downright chicken-shit to call a guy out when you know full well you would never be able to fight him.

You're underestimating grappling though. I've trained grappling, not to any impressive degree, but enough to know that being huge and bullish works against you against anyone who knows what they are doing because grappling is about skill, technique and leverage, not just simply using brute strength which will tire you out in 30 seconds. Big, bullish guys are at an even bigger advantage on their back. If a big guy like Fury gets put on his back, he ain't getting back up.

I think it runs parallel to boxing in terms of skill and technique required. A guy going on "organic" grappling skills will get schooled by someone who knows what they are doing, much like someone going on "organic" punching instincts will get schooled by someone who trains and understands the sweet science.

All I'm saying is JDS has an astronomically larger boxing skillbase than Fury would have a grappling skillbase.

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How would you know?

Whos to say that Fury isn't a little mma weekend warrior? Watches all the mma shows and does a little training at his gym?

Ill tell you this. Most mma fighters will not train boxing with any decent boxers because they dont like to get hit, whereas grappling, you may get tied up but you wont take those sharp stinging punches. I used to box and have done freestyle karate and trained with brazilian jiu jitsu practitioners and my uncle is a trainer in tradidional jiu jitsu and none of them would ever step foot in the boxing gym and attempt to spar, whereas myself and other boxers are more than willing and enjoy stepping over and learning new things and trying other things out. Whether this is a trend everywhere I don't know but I get the feeling that most martial artists (I know boxing is a martial art and quite possibly the first ever) think f themselves as "above" boxing and for one reason or another just plain refise to even step foot in a boxing specific gym, whereas boxers are quite open to traini g alongside them? Go figure...