Re: would you agree with the statement that
It's always Tyson :rolleyes:
Boxing is fine, it's just getting used to new things. Larry Holmes didn't captivate everyone while he was champion either because people thought of Ali the way you guys are talking about Tyson. Tyson was exciting but while on the verge of a HUGE match, I mean mind bogglingly huge matchup vs Holyfield, Mike Tyson got his shit handed to him and that kind of thing is what has hurt boxing. The stars haven't aligned to where we can have 2 undefeated heavyweights clash for the title in a massive showdown like Ali-Frazier I, the torch hasn't been passed all that well, the "next big thing" & "next big fight" either never materializes or someone fucks it up. We've gone YEARS without huge fights, yes we get exciting wins, but we've not had the Immovable Object vs the Unstoppable Force kinds of fights on the biggest stages.
Boxing needs their stars to fight like Corrales-Castillo & Brewster-Liakhovich, that's what boxing needs. Less talking, more action....this ain't the WWE the boxing fans want skill, passion, and determination. We want to be emotionally tied to the results, we want blood, sacrifice, heart, and at the moment the guys with that are either too good for everyone else, or doing that compromises their records. The last great fight I saw that just can't get enough credit is Vitali vs Lewis.....not having a rematch for that fight hurt boxing because it was a result that left an open ending. PPV sales of that fight would have been enormous. Also all these promoters fight more outside the ring then they allow their fighters to fight IN the ring Top Rank vs Golden Boy, Sauerland & DKP vs K2....it's ever so frustrating as a fan to know for a fact that Top Rank fighters won't fight Golden Boy fighters, that is also killing the sport. Professional fighters need to just sack up to their management and take the reigns of their careers, you're the key cogs in the machine if fighter X wants to fight Fighter Y then the promoters should sit down and make the deal happen & if they can't come to an agreement then an independent 3rd party mediator should structure the deal.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
For me it is a yes he was the last fighter I truly loved, I like Hatton, Cotto and Manny but not to the extent I loved Tyson.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
It's always Tyson :rolleyes:
Boxing is fine, it's just getting used to new things. Larry Holmes didn't captivate everyone while he was champion either because people thought of Ali the way you guys are talking about Tyson. Tyson was exciting but while on the verge of a HUGE match, I mean mind bogglingly huge matchup vs Holyfield, Mike Tyson got his shit handed to him and that kind of thing is what has hurt boxing. The stars haven't aligned to where we can have 2 undefeated heavyweights clash for the title in a massive showdown like Ali-Frazier I, the torch hasn't been passed all that well, the "next big thing" & "next big fight" either never materializes or someone fucks it up. We've gone YEARS without huge fights, yes we get exciting wins, but we've not had the Immovable Object vs the Unstoppable Force kinds of fights on the biggest stages.
Boxing needs their stars to fight like Corrales-Castillo & Brewster-Liakhovich, that's what boxing needs. Less talking, more action....this ain't the WWE the boxing fans want skill, passion, and determination. We want to be emotionally tied to the results, we want blood, sacrifice, heart, and at the moment the guys with that are either too good for everyone else, or doing that compromises their records. The last great fight I saw that just can't get enough credit is Vitali vs Lewis.....not having a rematch for that fight hurt boxing because it was a result that left an open ending. PPV sales of that fight would have been enormous. Also all these promoters fight more outside the ring then they allow their fighters to fight IN the ring Top Rank vs Golden Boy, Sauerland & DKP vs K2....it's ever so frustrating as a fan to know for a fact that Top Rank fighters won't fight Golden Boy fighters, that is also killing the sport. Professional fighters need to just sack up to their management and take the reigns of their careers, you're the key cogs in the machine if fighter X wants to fight Fighter Y then the promoters should sit down and make the deal happen & if they can't come to an agreement then an independent 3rd party mediator should structure the deal.
Great fights have nothing to do with selling PPV, it's purely down to the star power of the fighter.
Castillo-Corrales II was a massive PPV flop (150,000 buys) even though the first fight won "fight of the year" accolades all over the shop.
That Lennox-Vitali bill was PPV until Tyson dropped off the card.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Great fights have nothing to do with selling PPV, it's purely down to the star power of the fighter.
Castillo-Corrales II was a massive PPV flop (150,000 buys) even though the first fight won "fight of the year" accolades all over the shop.
That Lennox-Vitali bill was PPV until Tyson dropped off the card.
#1 I call BS on that
#2 Corrales-Castillo II was a flop because Jose Luis Castillo didn't bother to make weight & right after that Corrales was guilty of the same thing...very unprofessional
#3 Lewis was originally scheduled to fight Kirk Johnson & Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell...I didn't even know Tyson was even going to be on the card, but I knew that it was by no means a stellar lineup.
#4 99% of the fans wanted to see Vitali-Lewis II because it was a good competitive match and both big dudes came out swinging for the fences....they fought like the title meant something to them & they wanted to entertain the crowd which they did...thoroughly
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#2 Corrales-Castillo II was a flop because Jose Luis Castillo didn't bother to make weight & right after that Corrales was guilty of the same thing...very unprofessional
I think professionalism is the last thing the general public cares about when it comes to the question of whether or not to buy a PPV. Tyson was a convicted rapist and bit a guy's ear off in the ring and he drew well up until he retired. Floyd is also a convicted felon, a guy who more obnoxious than anyone, who has dropped people while they were looking away and he failed to make weight for JMM. But he's the biggest PPV draw in boxing history.
It's all about the star power. When it comes to JLC/Corrales, all us boxing fans knew it was gonna be a war, but the John Q Public never heard of either of them.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
#2 Corrales-Castillo II was a flop because Jose Luis Castillo didn't bother to make weight & right after that Corrales was guilty of the same thing...very unprofessional
I think professionalism is the last thing the general public cares about when it comes to the question of whether or not to buy a PPV. Tyson was a convicted rapist and bit a guy's ear off in the ring and he drew well up until he retired. Floyd is also a convicted felon, a guy who more obnoxious than anyone, who has dropped people while they were looking away and he failed to make weight for JMM. But he's the biggest PPV draw in boxing history.
It's all about the star power. When it comes to JLC/Corrales, all us boxing fans knew it was gonna be a war, but the John Q Public never heard of either of them.
....the rematch wasn't a war it was a slaughter mainly due to the weight issue. People bought the later Tyson fights not because they knew who he was they didn't know what the fuck he was going to do.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Corrales got caught with a perfect shot and went to sleep
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonBomb
Boxing started its sharp decline after Mike Tyson left the sport?
Boxings decline started after he went to prison. There is no doubt Tyson being unfairly convicted and sent away for no reason is one of the biggest tragedies in the worlds history.
Agreed. That was one of the biggest shams ever. I think there was a certain amount of decline because of it but imo the much bigger decline started when the took boxing off network tv, The final nail imo was ppv.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Why do people think Tyson was innocent? He might have been, I don't know the details of the case. Just wondering why so many people buy into his innocence, given his documented past of sexual abuse.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Agreed. That was one of the biggest shams ever. I think there was a certain amount of decline because of it but imo the much bigger decline started when the took boxing off network tv, The final nail imo was ppv.
Yeah boxing leaving NBC was crucial, but also Boxing leaving USA was a hit...USA had Tuesday Night Fights and they had some really good fighters come through there. All the big time names fought on USA early or late in their careers...that was a big thing.
UFC has gone the opposite direction basically staking out Spike, FX, Fuel, & Fox....brilliant, brilliant move by them & they'll prosper for it. Boxing can come back around, but it's swimming against the current at the moment.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Great fights have nothing to do with selling PPV, it's purely down to the star power of the fighter.
Castillo-Corrales II was a massive PPV flop (150,000 buys) even though the first fight won "fight of the year" accolades all over the shop.
That Lennox-Vitali bill was PPV until Tyson dropped off the card.
#1 I call BS on that
#2 Corrales-Castillo II was a flop because Jose Luis Castillo didn't bother to make weight & right after that Corrales was guilty of the same thing...very unprofessional
#3 Lewis was originally scheduled to fight Kirk Johnson & Vitali was to fight Cedric Boswell...I didn't even know Tyson was even going to be on the card, but I knew that it was by no means a stellar lineup.
#4 99% of the fans wanted to see Vitali-Lewis II because it was a good competitive match and both big dudes came out swinging for the fences....they fought like the title meant something to them & they wanted to entertain the crowd which they did...thoroughly
1. ......
2. This is very naive - a) to think the general public give a fuck about a few pounds overweight is ridiculous b) even more ridiculous is to think the success of a PPV is determined 24 hours before the event. They spend months selling and hyping a fight. So you think everyone that buys PPV waits until the weigh-in and orders at the last minute? If that's the case (and it's so silly I shouldn't be asking a question) - how did Floyd have a spectacular PPV success with Marquez when he weighed in above the limit?
3. Proves my point. Tyson on the bill it was PPV. Tyson off the bill it was not PPV.
4. Lewis-Vitali was a great fight. However, neither were a PPV attraction. If the fight was such a big deal, one where Vitali crossed over to the American mainstream, then how come he didn't become a big star? That was 10 years ago.
Floyd can fight no-names and do massive numbers. Tyson fought no-names and did massive numbers. Oscar fought no-names and did massive numbers. David Haye and Ricky Hatton, in Britain, fought no-names and did massive numbers. Wlad sells thousands of tickets in Germany. The general public buy into THE fighter not the fight. That's all i'm saying. Fact.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
There's a good chance that he was innocent, if he was then it's a great misjustice... I don't know about it being one of the greatest tradgedies in world history mind you. ;)
I thought it was worse than dropping the bomb on Japan
Re: would you agree with the statement that
Not making weight meant it wasn't a title fight
Who was Tyson scheduled to fight?
Vitali was making a good name for himself... the rematch most certainly would have been PPV as would Vitali-Tyson but Tyson couldn't make it past Williams who nobody knew of. Had it not been for injuries and Kalle Sauerland Vitali would have been a PPV staple. Vitali-Arreola could have been bigger if Cris put down the fork for 2 minutes.
Re: would you agree with the statement that
lets face it
K2 destroyed boxing ... they've made it unwatchable
people would rather watch Tyson spar at his current age than watch a K2 fight
