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I've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think the excessive alcohol also took its toll on him by that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
Only if he had stayed at 160. Once he moved up, he has had much less success. The Hopkins fight is a perfect example. By the way, it made no sense to take that fight. Why face Hopkins at 170 in his second fight above 160? Why not fight once or twice more at a catchweight of 165 or at super middleweight?Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think he relied on his physicality at 160 to be effective, which is fine, but when that went, he didn't have that extra umph to set himself apart from the competition. If you think about it, what's his best win above 160?
At 160, Pavlik versus GGG would have been one heck of a scrap. I haven't seen GGG beat anyone as good as a prime Jermain Taylor yet. If GGG walks through Murray, I'll reassess the question.
Pavlik V GGG one winner Golovkin, all I could is Pavlik taking a bad beating, what ever you think
Kelly would have been poleaxed.
JT, not an extremely big power puncher rocked the hell out of Kelly. GGG is a different ball game! GGG would pour on the pressure and really work over Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Pavlik-Quillen is a better more even matchup
Wouldn't you agree that from what we've seen a prime Pavlik is a much better boxer than current Kid Choc?Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongJT, not an extremely big power puncher rocked the hell out of Kelly. GGG is a different ball game! GGG would pour on the pressure and really work over Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dia bando
I think Pavlik-Quillen is a better more even matchup
Pavlik had serious boxing skill IMO, hard stinging jab, great stamina, great punch output, tough as nails.
Yeah he got put down by JT (I don't remember Miranda knocking him down) but that was an accumulation of blows from a great combo, which he easily recovered from.
GGG might win but it wouldn't be a cake walk. He'd have to eat a ton of hard leather himself to get the W.
If I remember right pavlik was bein overly cocky and stuck his chin out like an idiot and that led to the kdQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Not sure that the weight was a major factor here. I think it was a style thing and I remember being I think 1 of 2 people on another forum picking Hopkins via schooling. Even the die hard fans of Hopkins were picking Pavlik to win and many were picking Kelly by stoppage across the net and boxing world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratOnly if he had stayed at 160. Once he moved up, he has had much less success. The Hopkins fight is a perfect example. By the way, it made no sense to take that fight. Why face Hopkins at 170 in his second fight above 160? Why not fight once or twice more at a catchweight of 165 or at super middleweight?Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think he relied on his physicality at 160 to be effective, which is fine, but when that went, he didn't have that extra umph to set himself apart from the competition. If you think about it, what's his best win above 160?
At 160, Pavlik versus GGG would have been one heck of a scrap. I haven't seen GGG beat anyone as good as a prime Jermain Taylor yet. If GGG walks through Murray, I'll reassess the question.
After all he just ko'd the guy that beat him twice and then followed it up with a 12 round beating with a catch I think of 166. Pavliks people thought that Hopkins would take them over the top stardom wise and were most likely confident on winning and winning big. Imo the Taylor Kelly fought was not the same fighter that Hopkins fought and I don't think they actually considered that. They were to busy riding the wave. I'm not sure Kelly beats the same Taylor Bernard fought.
I think that Russian freak knocks Pavlik out.
From a styles point of view, Bernard had Kelly's number. No doubt. On the other hand, to face a fighter of Bernard's caliber at 170, the highest weight Kelly had ever fought at, with 20/20 hindsight wasn't the right move. A twelve round beating on Taylor at 166, after knocking him out, isn't a true foray into a higher weight class.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitNot sure that the weight was a major factor here. I think it was a style thing and I remember being I think 1 of 2 people on another forum picking Hopkins via schooling. Even the die hard fans of Hopkins were picking Pavlik to win and many were picking Kelly by stoppage across the net and boxing world.Quote:
Originally Posted by RantcatratOnly if he had stayed at 160. Once he moved up, he has had much less success. The Hopkins fight is a perfect example. By the way, it made no sense to take that fight. Why face Hopkins at 170 in his second fight above 160? Why not fight once or twice more at a catchweight of 165 or at super middleweight?Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI've always been a Pavlik fan and still am. He was on his way to greatness until he took the Hopkins fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
That fight ruined him, took his confidence, broke him mentally or whatever you want to say, anyway, he was never the same. IMO
I think he relied on his physicality at 160 to be effective, which is fine, but when that went, he didn't have that extra umph to set himself apart from the competition. If you think about it, what's his best win above 160?
At 160, Pavlik versus GGG would have been one heck of a scrap. I haven't seen GGG beat anyone as good as a prime Jermain Taylor yet. If GGG walks through Murray, I'll reassess the question.
After all he just ko'd the guy that beat him twice and then followed it up with a 12 round beating with a catch I think of 166. Pavliks people thought that Hopkins would take them over the top stardom wise and were most likely confident on winning and winning big. Imo the Taylor Kelly fought was not the same fighter that Hopkins fought and I don't think they actually considered that. They were to busy riding the wave. I'm not sure Kelly beats the same Taylor Bernard fought.
I think that Russian freak knocks Pavlik out.
However, the bottom line is that Kelly wasn't effective over 160. His best win is that win over Taylor. That's really all he's done since leaving the middleweight division. I just think he was tall and long at 160, but he lost those advantages above that.
The question here is whether he would be able to hold GGG at bay with his jab and right hand. I'm not sure he can, but GGG hasn't faced anyone at Pavlik's level yet. Not even close.
I've never seen Pavlik as some masterful boxer and really he sabotaged what was a great frame a lot of the time. Never looked to set guys on end of a snap jab and he would get a step ahead of himself with power on the inside. Golovkin has a compact power jab in there, great for flat feet often in a straight line. I think of war horse McKart seriously pounding his body and knocking him off balance for the KD. Golovkin is just to dang deep.
Golovkin sends him to the bar before the 4th round
You're right. Pavlik may not have been dropped if he wasn't messing around sticking his chin out. Showed abit of inexperience there but usually always shows good punch resistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by arminIf I remember right pavlik was bein overly cocky and stuck his chin out like an idiot and that led to the kdQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
If he were to meet Golovkin his feet would need to be a lot quicker and if he wasn't able to land something big early on if would be a pretty brutal beating for him. It's hard to picture anyone bullying Pavlik but I think that's the way it would go with GGG wearing him down round after round and forcing a stoppage.
I've always blamed Pavlik's downward slide on Jack Loew for accepting the Hopkins fight.
I can still remember Loew saying, "It isn't if we are going to knock Hopkins out, it's which round." What a mistake! Overlooking Hopkins, probably not the worst mistake in boxing, but pretty close.
Yeah blame the guy who accepted a fight in which his fighter received a career high payday. What a skanless muthafukka that Jack Loew isQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed