Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Physically Wlad the only area where Wlad might be declining is that he can't take as many fights in a year as he used to. The long term decline might be with the lose of Stewart as his trainer but otherwise why not rise to the challenge of fighting the new crop of contenders like Wilder and Fury? He's already proved himself to be very focused and motivated throughout his career.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
I have to ask, what makes people think if Wlad retires then HW division would be suddenly entertaining? Instead of seeing a boxing clinic all you would see is two grown men fight sloppier than two drunken hobos.
At the very least, his very presence would demand a certain obligation to technique and conditioning from his opponent.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavilaJones
I have to ask, what makes people think if Wlad retires then HW division would be suddenly entertaining? Instead of seeing a boxing clinic all you would see is two grown men fight sloppier than two drunken hobos.
At the very least, his very presence would demand a certain obligation to technique and conditioning from his opponent.
What rubbish, Wladimir's opponents have historically been superb boxers on the whole. Without Wlad it would still be a very highly skilled division.
If it's so easy to be a professional HW boxer today and you care to diss them so harshlythen why aren't you one, why don't you compete and start whacking them around??
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
I'm merely going by the logic that people suggest that the heavyweight division is weakeat in history. By that logic then Wlad doesn't deserve the accolades and everyone is a bum. I disagree with this notion. I'm simply asking why do people think that if Wlad leaves it would be vbetter for the division by following their logic.
Moreover, although I appreciate the fact you respect all boxers coming off hostile towards a fellow poster doesn't so much in way of debate and dialogue. After all we are all fans here.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Well I will apologise then. Yes that wide spread chant has several origins but at it's core, with only minimal thinking effort, is in fact ridiculous.
There has never been a harder hitting era for one, and this is also the heftiest era on record. Going back more than 30 years, the HW division was a combination of what we today call HW and CW and the average opponent weight was something like 200lbs, smaller than any HW boxer today and smaller even than Chris Byrd. The top end boxers were below the average weight of todays boxers with a few giant exceptions. So there are really only a few eras worth of boxers to even compare with.
Then there's the skills. There is a tendency to greatly blow out of proportion past boxers skills as if they were masters of defence and offense and smooth as whipped cream. In reality many of them were complete punch bags and would probably not be professional boxers today were they to be trained and experienced as they were.
Then there's the athleticism, in the old days training was ridiculous, it had no relevance to the sport quite often. Today the champions are lean and mega fit and only some opponents were fat. In the past, the champs were either weak string beans or chubby! There has never been a more athletic time in HW boxing.
Look at Wladimir's opponents non-Klitschko fights and you can see how much better they are when compared with the opponents of say Mike Tyson or Larry Holmes for instance.
I am actually a proponent of the 90's era and Lennox Lewis myself but I really find the running down of the current era absolutely disgraceful and idiotic.
I think only about 5% of the people who say that actually believe it, and they are all probably a hundred years old and recapping what they thought they saw ringside in 1965 or something lol. The rest are just jealous that it is not a black American holding the titles anymore and instead a pair of white, former commie, Slavic boxers replanted the flag of HW boxing on the other side of the world making them next to irrelevant at HW.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
And in fact that basically explains your original question posed in your original post.
The reason people think the division is going to pick up again once Wladimir goes is that there are now American contenders ready for the titles (Arreola, Wilder, Stiverne, Jennings, others) and I'll bet you that as soon as an American is back on top again, suddenly HW boxing will be good again. These ppl say that because they KNOW that the HW division is good, it's just that Klitschko is so good, so big and so dominant that he outshines all contenders.
That's why there are few opportunities for ATG these days, dominance prevents that. The more "ATG's" an era features REALLY means that none of the boxers in that era were really THAT great, otherwise they wouldn't have let other boxers shine brightly enough to be considered.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Yeah I don't see that happening. He's 38, he's not going to box until 48. His reflexes are going go within the next few years and so is his speed, legs and athleticism. And when they go and guys are able to get in and touch his chin, it's over Johnny.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Havent bothered reading much of the replies here becuase for some reason most of you are comparing Wlad defending 1 belt out of 4 for years, to Louis holding THE belt.
Hes only been one of the best, not THE best so its all bullshit.
Since all the other titles were created only Mike Tyson has had the longest unified reign.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DavilaJones
I'm merely going by the logic that people suggest that the heavyweight division is weakeat in history. By that logic then Wlad doesn't deserve the accolades and everyone is a bum. I disagree with this notion. I'm simply asking why do people think that if Wlad leaves it would be vbetter for the division by following their logic.
Moreover, although I appreciate the fact you respect all boxers coming off hostile towards a fellow poster doesn't so much in way of debate and dialogue. After all we are all fans here.
Part of it comes from the top 10's reluctance to fight each other. Instead they all just bide their time waiting for their shot at Wlad.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greenbeanz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
And in fact that basically explains your original question posed in your original post.
The reason people think the division is going to pick up again once Wladimir goes is that there are now American contenders ready for the titles (Arreola, Wilder, Stiverne, Jennings, others) and I'll bet you that as soon as an American is back on top again, suddenly HW boxing will be good again. These ppl say that because they KNOW that the HW division is good, it's just that Klitschko is so good, so big and so dominant that he outshines all contenders.
That's why there are few opportunities for ATG these days, dominance prevents that. The more "ATG's" an era features REALLY means that none of the boxers in that era were really THAT great, otherwise they wouldn't have let other boxers shine brightly enough to be considered.
Mate you are tryin too hard and tying yourself in knots in the process. You are so one note compared to the so called old timer nut huggers that you declaim that every post you make quickens the evaporation of what little credibility your argument held.
So now anybody who thinks differently to you is now really a closet racist and ATG were not really great just mediocre in an era of bums compared to today's supremely skilled and fit specimens of the HW division?
No I don't mean to attack any other era at all, just defend this one.
1/ The logic goes here is that the era is weak (because it has been ordained that way for said reasons). Wladimir presides over a weak era, so therefore his supreme dominance is really nothing that special.
2/ When Wladimir dominates his opponents or beats them very easily, they must have been bums since Wlad isn't really that good.
3/ When Wladimir struggles with an opponent or loses Wladimir must be a bum because he lost to a bum.
See there's no way out of this situation. No matter what Wladimir does and more importantly no matter what Wladimir's OPPONENTS do/can do, they are simply labelled...
"No better than 2 drunk hobos fighting down the pub". original quote from earlier.
So don't point at me for making outrageous assumptions mate, they were made in the beginning.
Tell THAT to Sultan Ibragimov, I am sure he would agree that he was not worthy to fight in another era. I mean even Holyfield stated that in all his years of boxing, I've not had someone pull moves on me like that.
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Wlad is yet to be THE heavyweight champ.
He may never be THE heavyweight champ.
He has yet to unify the belts and be the undisputed champion, yet alone make any defences of the unified championships.
What a load of shit!
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
He is the HW champ, always has been for years.
Now what kind of fucking moron would argue otherwise!
:rolleyes:
Re: Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Wlad is yet to be THE heavyweight champ.
He may never be THE heavyweight champ.
He has yet to unify the belts and be the undisputed champion, yet alone make any defences of the unified championships.
What a load of shit!
You understand you can't be THE champion anymore right? As soon as he picks up the WBC he will either have to drop all the other belts or drop the WBC belt. I don't see how beating some chump carrying the WBC belt somehow makes him more of a champion than beating top contender after top contender.
Of course he can.
Im pretty sure even the most casual fan can tell you who the undisputed champs have been since the emergence of the other belts.
Tyson, Douglas, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis. Thats it.
Its a marker of greatness. The next would be how long they held them together and defended. Tyson, easily being top with 6 defences, losing in the 7th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Max Power
He is the HW champ, always has been for years.
Now what kind of fucking moron would argue otherwise!
:rolleyes:
No he hasnt. Hes had 1 belt for years and hasnt had to face all comers. Hes only been a belt holder, only having to face one third of the challengers out there to hold on to that belt. Not all comers as those whove held the three belts simultaneously have had to do. He left alot to his brother that he couldnt cope with.
Hes never been undisputed and has never defended the undisputed title.
I think most will agree they dont count the WBO.
Its much more difficult holding together the WBC, WBA and IBF as you HAVE to fight everyone. Why do you think Wlad has held that one title so long? Its still a good acheivment but nothing like becoming undisputed.
