Wladimir Klitschko's Resume

He's done all he can do in a less than competetive era but its his longevity makes him an all time great for me. Staying at the top is a great accomplishment. Everyone knows his weakness is a chin, well no ones really managed to outbox him and land on it for about a decade now. Sure some of his voluntary defences have been poor but if he beats the latest crop of heavyweights (Wilder, Fury, Pulev) then I'll forgive him for it.

Listen Tyson's era was almost as weak as this one just a tad better and he ended up losing to fucking Buster Douglas. Bryde had a pretty good wins at hw and was champ for good amount of time. Wlad wins over Haye, Peter, Thompson and Chageave are legit i fell not best but better then some eras.

i agree that its not wlads fault that the division is so bad, but he proved that he wasnt that great before the division turned into the worst HW era in history. he wasnt dominant until the earlier generation of HWs retired or at least fell into obscurity. my question is how much did steward help him? honestly, wlad was pretty good before he got steward as a trainer but i believe that after he got him as a trainer, his level of opposition also went down. so im not sure how much of his success since then has been a new trainer and how much was the level of opposition which made him look good.

and also like i always say, anybody who brings up his style being boring needs to stop. that has no relevance on how good he is or will be. if he is good, his excitement doesnt matter. wlads tactics mainly work because his opposition is so bad. like ive mentioned in another thread, fighters usually allow their opponent to hold. just watch corrie sanders. when wlad tried to grab him sanders just pushed him and kept swinging.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by erics44

wlad will never be an all time great because of the way he fights


regardless of whether you think he fights within the rules or not and whether or not you believe he allowed to get away with the tactics he does due to the money he generates


a fighter will never be an all time great if he fights are so very dull every time


there are a list of champions who had such a dull style who were champions for years but will never be remembered or considered an all time great


Johnny nelson was world champ for 10 or so years, no one ever remembers his reign because of the way he fought


if he had have been on the front foot knocking people out every fight with the same record then he more than definitely would be remembered a lot more foundly


btw, it is an insult to Johnny to put his fights in the same dullness category as wlads

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You're wrong

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o right good


you pose a very solid argument


im not sure I have any kind of comeback to that detail

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by erics44

wlad will never be an all time great because of the way he fights


regardless of whether you think he fights within the rules or not and whether or not you believe he allowed to get away with the tactics he does due to the money he generates


a fighter will never be an all time great if he fights are so very dull every time


there are a list of champions who had such a dull style who were champions for years but will never be remembered or considered an all time great


Johnny nelson was world champ for 10 or so years, no one ever remembers his reign because of the way he fought


if he had have been on the front foot knocking people out every fight with the same record then he more than definitely would be remembered a lot more foundly


btw, it is an insult to Johnny to put his fights in the same dullness category as wlads

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Johnny Nelson was a fucking joke. The only name fighter he beat during his reign was Carl Thompson. And Thompson really was never even that good of a fighter. Without the judges gifts Nelson loses 3 of his last 4 fights.

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I completely agree


ive seen johnny nelson lose but get the verdict more than once


they were still wins tho, and he was still champion for 10 years or whatever


very similar to wlad, he should have been disqualified in 8 of his last 9 fights, they still go down as wins tho

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

i agree that its not wlads fault that the division is so bad, but he proved that he wasnt that great before the division turned into the worst HW era in history. he wasnt dominant until the earlier generation of HWs retired or at least fell into obscurity. my question is how much did steward help him? honestly, wlad was pretty good before he got steward as a trainer but i believe that after he got him as a trainer, his level of opposition also went down. so im not sure how much of his success since then has been a new trainer and how much was the level of opposition which made him look good.

and also like i always say, anybody who brings up his style being boring needs to stop. that has no relevance on how good he is or will be. if he is good, his excitement doesnt matter. wlads tactics mainly work because his opposition is so bad. like ive mentioned in another thread, fighters usually allow their opponent to hold. just watch corrie sanders. when wlad tried to grab him sanders just pushed him and kept swinging.

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After reading this it made me want to go back and watch the Wlad - Sanders fight. Ironically, the first time Sanders dropped Wlad, it was while Wlad was attempting to hold him. Haha I think Wlad may have improved his holding technique a bit since then though.


On a side note, it was sort of odd seing Wlad fight in that style/stance. He doesn't use that style anymore, but it was sort of fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

i agree that its not wlads fault that the division is so bad, but he proved that he wasnt that great before the division turned into the worst HW era in history. he wasnt dominant until the earlier generation of HWs retired or at least fell into obscurity. my question is how much did steward help him? honestly, wlad was pretty good before he got steward as a trainer but i believe that after he got him as a trainer, his level of opposition also went down. so im not sure how much of his success since then has been a new trainer and how much was the level of opposition which made him look good.

and also like i always say, anybody who brings up his style being boring needs to stop. that has no relevance on how good he is or will be. if he is good, his excitement doesnt matter. wlads tactics mainly work because his opposition is so bad. like ive mentioned in another thread, fighters usually allow their opponent to hold. just watch corrie sanders. when wlad tried to grab him sanders just pushed him and kept swinging.

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wlads boring style has everything to do with his success


he is boring because he holds


holding is against the rules


I don't think there has ever been a champion of any weight that holds and breaks the rules even a fraction as much as the extreme amounts that wlad does

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=W7_yQy68cWI

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

After reading this it made me want to go back and watch the Wlad - Sanders fight. Ironically, the first time Sanders dropped Wlad, it was while Wlad was attempting to hold him. Haha I think Wlad may have improved his holding technique a bit since then though.


On a side note, it was sort of odd seing Wlad fight in that style/stance. He doesn't use that style anymore, but it was sort of fun to watch.

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Wladimir's style used to be nothing but offense look at his fight vs Ray Mercer, look at his fight vs Monte Barrett. He threw a TON of punches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAKJx5jArVw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqCw-wPE1k


There's no way he could have continued fighting in that style just because he was throwing pressure fighter amounts of punches

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

After reading this it made me want to go back and watch the Wlad - Sanders fight. Ironically, the first time Sanders dropped Wlad, it was while Wlad was attempting to hold him. Haha I think Wlad may have improved his holding technique a bit since then though.


On a side note, it was sort of odd seing Wlad fight in that style/stance. He doesn't use that style anymore, but it was sort of fun to watch.

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Wladimir's style used to be nothing but offense look at his fight vs Ray Mercer, look at his fight vs Monte Barrett. He threw a TON of punches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAKJx5jArVw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqCw-wPE1k


There's no way he could have continued fighting in that style just because he was throwing pressure fighter amounts of punches

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Mercer was old and slow and Barrett was a punching bag for all of his career.

Again, this is not Wlad's fault, but I ask the question is there one single name on his resume that the top 25 HWs of all time would not also have beaten? Really think about it objectively!

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by ninjaspy3

After reading this it made me want to go back and watch the Wlad - Sanders fight. Ironically, the first time Sanders dropped Wlad, it was while Wlad was attempting to hold him. Haha I think Wlad may have improved his holding technique a bit since then though.


On a side note, it was sort of odd seing Wlad fight in that style/stance. He doesn't use that style anymore, but it was sort of fun to watch.

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Wladimir's style used to be nothing but offense look at his fight vs Ray Mercer, look at his fight vs Monte Barrett. He threw a TON of punches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAKJx5jArVw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqCw-wPE1k


There's no way he could have continued fighting in that style just because he was throwing pressure fighter amounts of punches

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Mercer was old and slow and Barrett was a punching bag for all of his career.

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YK I hope your post was followed by a self inflicted gunshot wound to the head because that is one of the DUMBEST things I've ever read.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Again, this is not Wlad's fault, but I ask the question is there one single name on his resume that the top 25 HWs of all time would not also have beaten? Really think about it objectively!

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Good post and wide ranging. I think guys like Jimmy Young and Ron Lyle would roll roughshod over any of Wlads opponents. But I also say the same thing against Louis's and Marcianos with the exceptions being say Charles, Walcott and a handful of others. I also think that guys like Wills, Mcvea and Jeanette that came around after the turn of the 20th but were frozen out could come forward and essentially do the same as Lyle and Young and perhaps even get further. I also think all 5 guys would have beaten anyone in Holmes era or Lennox's.

One thing that has seemed to have stayed the same since boxing was an infant through the change from 8 to 17 is the downright mediocrity of the heavyweight division. Truthfully when I said mediocrity, I was being generous. The glaring weakness of today's crop is the complete lack of elite's.
The competition level in the division has always been sad but there have at least been a few elites around that fell short or were a real threat as above average gate keepers. Still, I dont see this era being any weaker fundamentally then Marciano's time or Larry Holmes and is just a notch below Lennox Lewis. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there really isn't that many degrees of separation between Wlads run and just about any others since John L.

The hev division to me has always been a magicians trick since its opening in testosterone filled tents.
What made it the premiere division was the size of the fighters not pugilism. A classic early example of quantity verses quality and that odd behaviour carry's on to this day. Whats strange is that it was not effected by division expansion and mankind has been getting bigger faster for more then a century along with the population. One would think these contributing factors would provide the best competition in history by far.

Thing is i feel most guys today would beat the older guys from the 50's back pretty easy just on size. I mean hw has 70's and 90's that's about it nothing more or less the 80's were fucking bad. Most of the guys Tyson beat were even worse then ones Wald was beating he even lost to Buster fucking Douglas. I mean Louis fucking fought bar tenders and lhws and lost to a fucking old as Max past his prime because he could not dodge right hand. Bryde could hang with a lot of hw and defend his belt Haye a ass but had ablitiy to hang with 80's guys at least. Chelagve was undefeated champ and Thompson size would cause most people problems esply if were talking 60's and before then don't think it is that bad. Wald not beast ever but his resume i fell is underrated by alot people and few people then blow it up way to much.

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

i agree that its not wlads fault that the division is so bad, but he proved that he wasnt that great before the division turned into the worst HW era in history. he wasnt dominant until the earlier generation of HWs retired or at least fell into obscurity. my question is how much did steward help him? honestly, wlad was pretty good before he got steward as a trainer but i believe that after he got him as a trainer, his level of opposition also went down. so im not sure how much of his success since then has been a new trainer and how much was the level of opposition which made him look good.

and also like i always say, anybody who brings up his style being boring needs to stop. that has no relevance on how good he is or will be. if he is good, his excitement doesnt matter. wlads tactics mainly work because his opposition is so bad. like ive mentioned in another thread, fighters usually allow their opponent to hold. just watch corrie sanders. when wlad tried to grab him sanders just pushed him and kept swinging.

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wlads boring style has everything to do with his success


he is boring because he holds


holding is against the rules


I don't think there has ever been a champion of any weight that holds and breaks the rules even a fraction as much as the extreme amounts that wlad does

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wait what?!?! i thought that it was ward who cheated the most. get your stories straight! :p