Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Canelo can be great if he switches trainers and adds some dimensions to his game. He is very comfortable boxing off the back foot and countering. He isn't very effective on the inside or cutting off the ring. If guys like Benton, Bouie Fisher...etc., were still around, they would be perfect for getting him where he needs to be. Nacho could be the guy also, but I don't think Canelo will switch trainers. In summary: the loss doesn't hurt his chances to be an ATG, his deficiencies that have been showcased in his less than stellar performances and his refusal to address those deficiencies will prevent him.
This is basically what I think. The loss doesn't matter in the ATG debate. If canelo went on to be super dominant from now on, he could be great but he won't be because he just isn't that great of a fighter. I think that he will end up having a good career but definitely not a career which will consider him to be an ATG.
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
He got beaten by the greatest boxer of this generation.
Why can he never be great, when a guy like Roberto Duran who was outclassed, KTFO, quit in the middle of a title fight, ect is considered one of the p4p greatest to ever live?
Agreed, getting beat by the best does not automatically lower expectations, he has a long career ahead.
To be fair, Duran could be considered an ATG on the strength of his career before he went up the weights and mixed it with Hagler, Hearns & Leonard.
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
He got beaten by the greatest boxer of this generation.
Why can he never be great, when a guy like Roberto Duran who was outclassed, KTFO, quit in the middle of a title fight, ect is considered one of the p4p greatest to ever live?
Agreed, getting beat by the best does not automatically lower expectations, he has a long career ahead.
To be fair, Duran could be considered an ATG on the strength of his career before he went up the weights and mixed it with Hagler, Hearns & Leonard.
Do not listen to Beanflicker he thinks Floyd would beat Duran at lightweight. :)
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Do not listen to Beanflicker he thinks Floyd would beat Duran at lightweight. :)
Yeah don't listen to me, I have the stupid habit of actually watching/analyzing boxing and forming my own opinions.
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
He got beaten by the greatest boxer of this generation.
Why can he never be great, when a guy like Roberto Duran who was outclassed, KTFO, quit in the middle of a title fight, ect is considered one of the p4p greatest to ever live?
Agreed, getting beat by the best does not automatically lower expectations, he has a long career ahead.
To be fair, Duran could be considered an ATG on the strength of his career before he went up the weights and mixed it with Hagler, Hearns & Leonard.
Don't get me wrong, I never said that to in any way diminish Duran, who is one of my favorite fighters of all time. I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of writing off modern fighters with the first loss, when every past great has faltered at some point and gets a pass.
Roberto is an ATG even for all his shortcomings, and Canelo can become one too, depending on how the rest of his career plays out.
Also, if we want to get technical and call Duran an ATG based solely on his LW career, who did he beat at LW to make him an all time great? I ask because every day I come here I see someone saying Floyd isn't an ATG because his competition has been mediocre. Was Duran's competition at LW better than Floyd's career I wonder?
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
He got beaten by the greatest boxer of this generation.
Why can he never be great, when a guy like Roberto Duran who was outclassed, KTFO, quit in the middle of a title fight, ect is considered one of the p4p greatest to ever live?
Duran firstly had the disadvantage of being considered the smaller guy - Canelo is bigger - but in fairness taking that point out - Duran beat Leonard - and did lose twice but he did beat him - he showed he was good enough - Canelo won't ever prove that - he will never get the rematch etc
Also Lara and Trout both pushed him to his very limits - I actually rate both highly but no where near greatness - I don't see Canelo improving hugely in the coming couple of years either
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Do not listen to Beanflicker he thinks Floyd would beat Duran at lightweight. :)
Yeah don't listen to me, I have the stupid habit of actually watching/analyzing boxing and forming my own opinions.
Yes and being wrong. :)
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
oakleyno1
Duran firstly had the disadvantage of being considered the smaller guy - Canelo is bigger - but in fairness taking that point out - Duran beat Leonard - and did lose twice but he did beat him - he showed he was good enough - Canelo won't ever prove that - he will never get the rematch etc
Also Lara and Trout both pushed him to his very limits - I actually rate both highly but no where near greatness - I don't see Canelo improving hugely in the coming couple of years either
Duran had a great career and was p4p one of the best ever but he had a lot of faults too, and as good as he was he quit in a prizefight because he had a tummy ache and he got blown out by one of his peers. I think those losses were much more embarrassing than losing by UD to Floyd Mayweather.
I'm not saying Canelo is going to be an ATG, I'm saying let's wait until he's finished his career to make that decision. In no way does losing to a guy of Mayweather's caliber DQ you from becoming an ATG. The kid is 24.
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Yes and being wrong. :)
Floyd would eat Duran alive. Absolute poison for Duran.
If you think Duran beats PBF, the best thing I can say to you is don't ever bet on boxing.
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Now if you wanna talk Hearns or Leonard vs. Floyd, I'm all ears. But Duran? You're insane.
Re: Can Alvarez EVER be great after losing comprehensively to Mayweather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Now if you wanna talk Hearns or Leonard vs. Floyd, I'm all ears. But Duran? You're insane.
At lightweight you are insane but welterweight you may have a case.
