Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size. ;D
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size. ;D
Whats a mix of the two? :)
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
The push is what actually moves the hips, the pivot gives you range of motion.
Does the direction of the push matter, should you push towards the hip rotation or up or in the same direction of the punch or does it not matter so long as it gets the hips rotating?
The hip rotation and direction of the punch are the same direction.
But you should push into the floor as scrap was saying, in the direction opposite your back foot, which thus moves your body towards that foot.
You're making the common beginner mistake of looking for perfect, static technique in an imperfect, highly dynamic environment. Take the few examples you've posted, in each case the attacking fighting is moving forward so his feet aren't planted, which changes the mechanics.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
The push is what actually moves the hips, the pivot gives you range of motion.
Does the direction of the push matter, should you push towards the hip rotation or up or in the same direction of the punch or does it not matter so long as it gets the hips rotating?
In that clip Tyson gets him walking on to the shot. Even so the knee and foot are turning What turns the shoulder is the opposite shoulder, plus it keeps the weight on the back foot. What happened there the guy gave Tyson his distance and paid for doing it. Oh and you push down, as i said before study your walking movement for drive and when that is lost. There lies the answer, realise where the head is when the front foot lands, then bend the knees.
You said the "foot and knee have to move" so you got it wrong. The foot can stay completely still ;) Hell even the knee can even stay largely still.
Kick boxers punch like this all the time because they dont want to turn the back of their leg out to the side where it is vulnerable to a kick so they aim not to move the foot or the knee or to do it minimally, but they can still get good rotation on their hips. Also pro boxers more often than not dont move the foot much at all. Some martial artists are the similar to the kick boxers except they want stability and balance/defense against trips n throws, so thats why they dont turn the leg out.
What you dont seem to understand is that although everything is connected there is a fair amount of room for movement before the foot or even knee have to turn. ;)
xD
Also I am only a beginner, I presume you've studied this for a long time?
Something you need to keep in mind is the anatomy of the lower body. Kick boxers by the nature of their sport must develop excellent external rotation at the hip joint, which allows greater turn of the
hips without moving the foot. It thus becomes possible to have a greater range of motion without the pivot, which as I said only exists to provide that range of motion. So if you can achieve that without pivoting, which most pros can on the left hook at least, then you're fine. However as a beginner don't neglect it, and no matter how good you get don't neglect that pivot on your right hand. When you see people do that it's because they aren't driving with the back foot for power, they're leaning and usually have that back foot way behind them. It won't have to turn as far in for a right hook as it does for a straight right due to the different mechanics of those punches, but it definitely needs to turn some for both if we're talking ideal technique. And again, ideal technique is not what you'll typically see in a chaotic environment.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Here are clips of vitaly and his feet are planted while throwing hooks.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng_TcwPDUgo
Wlad left foot is planted while throwing the hook.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pkkMPuTv-k8
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size. ;D
Whats a mix of the two? :)
Dropping while turning.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size. ;D
Whats a mix of the two? :)
Dropping while turning.
Scrap coach said that your style is Jack Dempsey's style over here a good coach like you could make a lot of money teaching drop stepping anywhere from $100-150 per session.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size. ;D
Whats a mix of the two? :)
Dropping while turning.
Scrap coach said that your style is Jack Dempsey's style over here a good coach like you could make a lot of money teaching drop stepping anywhere from $100-150 per session.
Got offered the Olympic job in 84 ;D.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
I basically havent got a style, I give the fighters one ;D.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size. ;D
Whats a mix of the two? :)
Dropping while turning.
Scrap coach said that your style is Jack Dempsey's style over here a good coach like you could make a lot of money teaching drop stepping anywhere from $100-150 per session.
Got offered the Olympic job in 84 ;D.
Really that's great! But why didn't you take it?
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BCBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
Its a mixture of the two. poor demonstration on the bag, nobodys got a head that size. ;D
Whats a mix of the two? :)
Dropping while turning.
Scrap coach said that your style is Jack Dempsey's style over here a good coach like you could make a lot of money teaching drop stepping anywhere from $100-150 per session.
Got offered the Olympic job in 84 ;D.
Really that's great! But why didn't you take it?
already had a job.
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.
"the exact same thing"
What an inane start to your trolling argument!
1st of all you are wrong.
They arnt the exact* same thing.
1) The push off version comes from a strong explosive push off/down using the thigh muscles.
2) The twisting foot version while it has some meshing down of the weight before you start, its to a MUCH lesser degree and its more gravity doing the work rather than the thigh muscles pushing off (initially) the force starts mostly from the twist not the push. Infact no pushing down at all is required for this method. So ha!
Re: True or false most pro boxers dont pivot the foot they push off it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jms
Quote:
Originally Posted by
OMGWTF
So push down method, is it more powerful or less powerful than the foot twist method?
I prefer the foot twist method and I prefer to use it the way scrap recommends. But alot of pros, like Tyson, Tua, Fraizier, etc etc prefer the push down method.
Which is more powerful which is better?
Heres the push down/ push off 1st method
Redirect Notice
Heres foot twist 1st method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmAFFvdGc_o
These methods are the exact same thing. You're getting confused because you're looking at how a beginner is taught technique in a controlled environment then how a pro applies that technique in a dynamic environment, seeing that they aren't identical and trying to figure out why. You said before that the difference is in one the pivot comes before the push, in the other the push comes first. That's not right, in both of them the push comes first. The pivot is emphasized because most beginners won't turn their hips at all without it, and coming up higher on the ball of the foot is an easy way to teach them to transfer weight more easily. Then as the boxer progresses the weight transfer and hip rotation come more naturally, their ROM likely increases and the technique starts to look different, when really it's the same but more refined. The pros still do move their feet and their knees, it's just more subtle and you aren't seeing it.
Not true, it is taught to grind a cigarette out, which takes some downwards pressure but not ALOT. (You mesh your weight down here simply by directing gravity onto one leg or the other leg, so the weights there ready to shift before you twist the foot)
To push off requires ALOT of downwards pressure. (you use your powerful thigh muscles to cause ALOT of downward pressure 1st which is something you dont do with the other method, this is the key difference!)
Also some teach not to twist the foot because they believe power is wasted from the slip between the foot and the ground.
Also its not so subtle I dont see it many instances there is 0 movement in the foot by the pros, sometimes there's a little, sometimes there's alot.
So you are wrong on all accounts.
No, the pivot method also pushes very hard into the ground IF it's done correctly. Edit: Also, with proper technique it's not predominantly the thigh muscles. That shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the lower body works, otherwise a technical issue and dysfunction in the way your body moves.
The only time you won't see any pivot at all is when the weight is all the way forward. And that's far from ideal technique, but in the middle of a fight sometimes necessary and when you already have natural power you can get away with it pretty easily.
As scrap has said the hip is very limited in it's ability to rotate past where the foot is pointing. If you have the other guy positioned in that power arc you won't have to pivot very much. Often just a slight raise of the heel is enough. Or you can compromise by leaning. But either way, it's the same technique just with adjustments made. No matter what the push and thus the floor is where the power comes from.
