Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.
The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).
:rolleyes:
A career defining fight is? Because I could ask about the "career defining fights" of Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis et al and we'll see how you define the term.
Opposition has been a joke? He just smashed the fuck out a gold medal winner...you know ANOTHER ONE! He's taken 0's off of a ton of fighters, he's fought the best, he's beat the best, and he's not slipped once in over 10 years give the guy a fucking break.
He's struggled? Against who? He probably hasn't lost 10 rounds in 10 years Master!
He doesn't provide excitement....people said that when he KO'd Ray Austin in 2 rounds and I'm tired as fuck of the bitching about it. Wlad fights at a higher level than anyone else out there he has 53 KO's....53 man!!! Out of 66 total fights!!!!
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Oh ... yeah like the time Larry swore he about to decapitate Tyson with an uppercut only his arm got caught in the ropes...
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Wlad has a devastating jab, he's like Floyd, he could win a fight on his jab alone. How many times has he wobbled people with it, it looks like a Bruce Lee super duper one inch punch
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Wladimir Klitschko had a real Itch-ko
it bothers him that he gets no respect from ANYONE, but he doesn't deserve any more respect than a Ken Norton or a Joe Frazier.
He certainly doesnt deserve the respect of an Ali, a Lewis, a Holyfield, a Tyson.
FOR EXAMPLE: Tyson's competition which was above average (Pinklon Thomas, Bonecrusher Smith, Ruddock, Berbick, Holmes 38 yrs old, Mike Spinks) was certainly far far more talented than Wladimir's competition.
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Wlad kills both, and I don't see either as being the "best" that Wlad has fought, they'd be just be the average opponent for him.
I mean really, do you think that Wlad is going to plod on to those idiot straight rights Wilder was throwing? Probably not!
Do you think those left hooks he landed had enough to drop Wlad? That's debatable!
Wlad stops them both!
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
As much as I respect the legend that is Larry Holmes as a fighter, I just seem to like him less and less as a man every time I hear him speak. He seems to think he's the greatest HW of all time which is fair enough (I disagree, although I can understand anyone who chooses to agree, he was very good) but he really needs to get a grip when talking about other fighters. Wlad is not the most exciting HW, he has weakness' that have been highlighted in the past but he has tremendous tools and he uses the tools he has to protect the weakness' and that has turned him into a formidable fighter that has now ruled for about 10 years. I actually think Wlad's Jab is up there with Holmes'.
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.
The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).
:rolleyes:
A career defining fight is? Because I could ask about the "career defining fights" of Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis et al and we'll see how you define the term.
Opposition has been a joke? He just smashed the fuck out a gold medal winner...you know ANOTHER ONE! He's taken 0's off of a ton of fighters, he's fought the best, he's beat the best, and he's not slipped once in over 10 years give the guy a fucking break.
He's struggled? Against who? He probably hasn't lost 10 rounds in 10 years Master!
He doesn't provide excitement....people said that when he KO'd Ray Austin in 2 rounds and I'm tired as fuck of the bitching about it. Wlad fights at a higher level than anyone else out there he has 53 KO's....53 man!!! Out of 66 total fights!!!!
I said he is an ATG heavyweight what more do you want me to say.
When you are up with ATG the the second paragraph applies which all still stands.
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Wlad has earned the right to be an ATG because he has overcome adversity in his early defeats and knock downs, being undefeated in over 10 years, beating the best out there and having more defences than anyone except Louis but he has had no career defining fights during the 10 years.
The opposition have been a joke and he has struggled against some of them on the biggest platforms to showcase his quality. Yet he does not provide that entertaining wow factor (bar his last fight).
Sad thing about history is how loss(es) makes a fighter look ordinary to those who look back on it- as opposed to living through it.- Cooney is that example of it.
Cooney 6'5 25-0 23 ko's Walking through Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young- he was a massive specimen with a power punch & a chin. Yet Holmes proved his skill level could nullify, height, jab & power. -& when Cooney hurt him to the body, will power pulled him out- thats what he questions about Wlad--even stating Wlad is good technically, but theres more to boxing than skill.
Wlad vs Puritty good example- Wlad is throwing nicely, bustin' through Puritty's guard- - then by round 7-8 Puritty is throwin' wild shit, - Dog fight is on.
He's got little skill, but full of will! Guard up high, Wlad's gas tank- on low..Fool don'e punched himself out..against a 1/2 skill fighter whose will pulled him through, now Wlad is on the canvas...oops Rd11- Wlad is fighting backward, flopping backwards, no inside game-so he's trying to clinch his way outta dog fight. He lost to a determined fighter, not a skilled one.
Same with Sanders: every time Sanders landed- Wlad's instinct was to grab-clinch (total sign) that he can't scrap like a dog to get out of it...he got dropped at the moment he tried to clinch. Cory @ this time is totally squared up- but Wlad's instinct was now was to cover while plodding forward- no balance.
In his deepest moments of his career- Wlad never tried to fight his way out- he clinched & flopped his way out.
Now that he has gained the ability to effectively clinch- he's been able to avoid the dog fight...especially since today's HW's are oversized poodles.
Holmes simply pointed that out.
Holmes proved at the time a 6'5 boxer which was massive, could be whooped....
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Larry Holmes was a great Champion, far better than both Klitschko brothers Larry was underrated
his crime he beat the shit out of Ali, not Larry's fault Ali's for carrying on boxing for way to long.
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
FOR EXAMPLE: Tyson's competition which was above average (Pinklon Thomas, Bonecrusher Smith, Ruddock, Berbick, Holmes 38 yrs old, Mike Spinks) .
Don't forget Tony Tucker!!
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Sad thing about history is how loss(es) makes a fighter look ordinary to those who look back on it- as opposed to living through it.- Cooney is that example of it.
Cooney 6'5 25-0 23 ko's Walking through Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Jimmy Young- he was a massive specimen with a power punch & a chin. Yet Holmes proved his skill level could nullify, height, jab & power. -& when Cooney hurt him to the body, will power pulled him out- thats what he questions about Wlad--even stating Wlad is good technically, but theres more to boxing than skill.
Wlad vs Puritty good example- Wlad is throwing nicely, bustin' through Puritty's guard- - then by round 7-8 Puritty is throwin' wild shit, - Dog fight is on.
He's got little skill, but full of will! Guard up high, Wlad's gas tank- on low..Fool don'e punched himself out..against a 1/2 skill fighter whose will pulled him through, now Wlad is on the canvas...oops Rd11- Wlad is fighting backward, flopping backwards, no inside game-so he's trying to clinch his way outta dog fight. He lost to a determined fighter, not a skilled one.
Same with Sanders: every time Sanders landed- Wlad's instinct was to grab-clinch (total sign) that he can't scrap like a dog to get out of it...he got dropped at the moment he tried to clinch. Cory @ this time is totally squared up- but Wlad's instinct was now was to cover while plodding forward- no balance.
In his deepest moments of his career- Wlad never tried to fight his way out- he clinched & flopped his way out.
Now that he has gained the ability to effectively clinch- he's been able to avoid the dog fight...especially since today's HW's are oversized poodles.
Holmes simply pointed that out.
Holmes proved at the time a 6'5 boxer which was massive, could be whooped....
Gerry Cooney was tough but wins over old Ron Lyle and old Ken Norton and old Jimmy Young did not mean he was ready for Larry Holmes. Cooney was 25-0-0 but he had never been tested by a guy in his prime at the time, he didn't fight Marvis Frazier or Carl Williams, or Renaldo Snipes or Tim Witherspoon...are you kidding me? Sure he could punch but his boxing never got tested the deepest he went into a fight before Holmes was 8 rounds...8!!! And he lasted 13 with Holmes, why so long???? Couldn't Larry have ended it sooner???
Purrity, for fucks sake Wlad was 22 when that fight happened. He was young, he was beating the fuck out of Ross and just got tired, it happens ESPECIALLY to young fighters and the fact that Wlad could go back to that fight, look at it objectively, and then correct the mistakes THAT is the sign of a true champion! Ross Purrity's manager really dodged a bullet with his fighter's health allowing that fight to continue, but that's how it works sometimes.
Sanders was a power punching southpaw....imagine if Earnie Shavers was a southpaw, would Ali have fought him? Would Holmes have fought him? Sanders didn't help himself by training more on the golf course than he did in the ring, but what a talent. He threw short, quick, precise punches from a southpaw stance and they packed a wallop....Wlad wasn't out cold, Wlad didn't get counted out with his back on the canvas, he got caught, couldn't recover and that's that. He went back, took note of the mistakes he made and hasn't made them sense....that learning process, that ability to cover his flaws, that makes him a great fighter. Since that loss Wladimir has fought a number of southpaws and none have given him trouble...none are the puncher Corrie was (r.i.p) but none have given Wlad trouble.
Mike Tyson did PLENTY of clinching, Ali did PLENTY of clinching....can people not accept that Wladimir is the best heavyweight in the world? It's not by a small margin either he just absolutely tooled the best the division had to offer in Pulev, he just smacked the life out of the guy and with his 3rd best punch too!
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
No one is picking on Wlad. We have said he is a great champion. When you are against the elite in history then he falls short. Get over it.
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
No one is picking on Wlad. We have said he is a great champion. When you are against the elite in history then he falls short. Get over it.
Define "career defining fight"....because if you can't (or won't) then everyone will just assume it's because you personally don't like Wladimir which is fine if you don't but at least own up to it.
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
No one is picking on Wlad. We have said he is a great champion. When you are against the elite in history then he falls short. Get over it.
Define "career defining fight"....because if you can't (or won't) then everyone will just assume it's because you personally don't like Wladimir which is fine if you don't but at least own up to it.
Career defining fight would be a big fight that captures the public attention, against a credible fighter who people believe has a chance and he puts on a great show.
I can not name a career defining fight of his. Can you?
Re: Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
Fuck me, if he'd just mentioned Earnie Shavers every other word or two he'd fit right in with most of you!
