Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
I see Haye destroying Roy at cruiser. This fight would play out similar to Meldrick Taylor vs Terry Norris. Roy was slightly faster than Haye, but didn't have the strength or punch to keep David honest at that weight.
Ruiz was a slow, plodding joke of a fighter, whose style is completely opposite of the athletic Haye. Roy was the definition of athletic, but his punches had noticeably less affect at 175, and Roy would've had to rely on speed and movement to win at cruiser. Haye had fast feet and hands, and while Roy would've been slightly faster, it wasn't enough to keep Haye off balance and at a distance the whole night. David by early stoppage/blow out.
Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy Jones, at his peak wasn't near cruiser weight. So this is kind of a trick question.
A peak Roy hardly gets touched by Haye.
Also considering that Roy barely was even touched by faster guys at lower weights, that were harder to see coming, its a little hard for me to believe that the lunging, wide hooking, wide stanced haye is gonna catch him. Also id wager to say roy was more than slightly faster than haye (no offense to Mikeeod). I just think its relativity--its easier for haye to look faster against the crop of heavyweights he's faced (even discounting the 7 ft sloth, valuev) - it doesn't me he would look as fast fighting someone from a lower class whos known for his speed. I wouldn't use ruiz as a measuring stick.
My arguments not based on speed as much as its based on style. With hayes kinetics and wide stance, roy would just be able to see him coming from a mile away. Klitchsko did. If haye refined his style, he'd have less tells... so to speak.
Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
Yes it's silly for those reasons. I was sort of thinking if he had moved up to 200 instead of HW in 2003 to fight Ruiz, he would have beaten whatever version of Haye, who I think was overall a better fighter at HW incidentally. What was Hayes best performance at 200, Mormeck? I feel like he was a lot less durable himself at the weight, Roy would have still been able to hurt him or at the very least keep him honest.
Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J_Undisputed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy Jones, at his peak wasn't near cruiser weight. So this is kind of a trick question.
A peak Roy hardly gets touched by Haye.
Also considering that Roy barely was even touched by faster guys at lower weights, that were harder to see coming, its a little hard for me to believe that the lunging, wide hooking, wide stanced haye is gonna catch him. Also id wager to say roy was more than slightly faster than haye (no offense to Mikeeod). I just think its relativity--its easier for haye to look faster against the crop of heavyweights he's faced (even discounting the 7 ft sloth, valuev) - it doesn't me he would look as fast fighting someone from a lower class whos known for his speed. I wouldn't use ruiz as a measuring stick.
My arguments not based on speed as much as its based on style. With hayes kinetics and wide stance, roy would just be able to see him coming from a mile away. Klitchsko did. If haye refined his style, he'd have less tells... so to speak.
Can definitely see your point, and never take offense to counter views/points, I actually prefer them (when they are backed up with insight, as yours was). In my opinion, while Roy was fast and could hit hard at 175, he had lost some in both departments compared to what he could do at 160/168. Roy was faster than pretty much any 175 pounder, but not infinitely faster like he was at the two other weights. He was caught by inferior fighters like Eric Harding, Montell Griffin, Lou del Valle, and Antonio Tarver.
This is where I see him losing to Haye at 190. I just don't see Roy being able to out speed or discourage Haye as necessary for him to last the distance. I see Roy getting backed up to the ropes and taking a pounding until he gets stopped. Can see a case for Roy to counter with something that shakes and discourages David, allowing him to pot shot to a decision, but don't think that is the most likely scenario.
Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
Once Jones got a taste of Haye's power he would be running all night. Around round 9 Jones starts to fall apart. The ref would have to save him.
Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
If Haye could touch him then it is lights out. But Roy was really hard to touch in his prime and would probably knockout a tired and frustrated Haye in 10.
Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J_Undisputed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy Jones, at his peak wasn't near cruiser weight. So this is kind of a trick question.
A peak Roy hardly gets touched by Haye.
Also considering that Roy barely was even touched by faster guys at lower weights, that were harder to see coming, its a little hard for me to believe that the lunging, wide hooking, wide stanced haye is gonna catch him. Also id wager to say roy was more than slightly faster than haye (no offense to Mikeeod). I just think its relativity--its easier for haye to look faster against the crop of heavyweights he's faced (even discounting the 7 ft sloth, valuev) - it doesn't me he would look as fast fighting someone from a lower class whos known for his speed. I wouldn't use ruiz as a measuring stick.
My arguments not based on speed as much as its based on style. With hayes kinetics and wide stance, roy would just be able to see him coming from a mile away. Klitchsko did. If haye refined his style, he'd have less tells... so to speak.
Can definitely see your point, and never take offense to counter views/points, I actually prefer them (when they are backed up with insight, as yours was). In my opinion, while Roy was fast and could hit hard at 175, he had lost some in both departments compared to what he could do at 160/168. Roy was faster than pretty much any 175 pounder, but not infinitely faster like he was at the two other weights. He was caught by inferior fighters like Eric Harding, Montell Griffin, Lou del Valle, and Antonio Tarver.
This is where I see him losing to Haye at 190. I just don't see Roy being able to out speed or discourage Haye as necessary for him to last the distance. I see Roy getting backed up to the ropes and taking a pounding until he gets stopped. Can see a case for Roy to counter with something that shakes and discourages David, allowing him to pot shot to a decision, but don't think that is the most likely scenario.
Agreed, not infinitely fast but still faster and smarter than haye. Lets go down that list of fighters:
Del valle - was a former sparring partner and took notes.
Griffin - had a terribly awkward style
Tarver - What version of roy did he fight?
Harding- I always thought he did a good job against roy. Then again I think roy took him lightly and lucked out with the injury to hardings bicep.
I'm not sure i could say any of those guys fought the best roy. Except maybe Griffin (the second time around). Even still has it was. Del valle would be the only one that people might say buzzed roy when he he wasn't at a known disadvantage. At his best, probably not. We need a performance where we'll see roy was at his peak for light heavy at least if we wont use the career peak roy at super middle. We'll exclude hall (because of the ripped fuel positive test), we'll exclude the telesco performance at radio city (because roy only had one hand) -- how about reggie johnson- i think roy was reasonably motivated for that one?
As i said its not a speed or power thing. Its the fact that Haye's delivery is very obvious. His feet are so wide apart that it takes him a second to set. When he is set, he now has to coil at the knees to deliver his best chance of probably catching roy (a one two), because roys not going to trade with him (roy didnt even trade with average light heavies). Haye's deliver and linear attack made him very obvious. "Retreats to the ropes and takes a pounding", really sounds like you're describing the roy with the shot knees, that was a sitting duck for green, lebedev, other cruisers and light heavies-- not a near peak jones. Jones did manage to buzz ruiz, so he wasnt without the capability. He just chose to move rather than slug... just as he would against Haye.
Re: Roy Jones vs David Haye
Lolenga Mock beats either of them.
