Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I hate to use this cliche but styles make fights. Froch in his prime was a difficult out. Really unorthodox in his approach with a killer right hand and a world class chin to back it up. There is no shame in losing to one of the best fighters of our time. He's also most likely a pretty good sized light heavyweight at fight time. Golovkin has a world class chin also but he's faced nobody who punches like Froch. I just don't see Golovkin walking Carl down and having his way or sticking his chin out and asking for one with a smile on his face.
I agree on styles making fights, and I think Froch is a horrible match up for GGG. Froch was very strong, very tough mentally and physically, had a great punch, and possessed underrated boxing skills. GGG would be significantly smaller, and while I think he would've lasted the distance and taken some rounds, I see him losing the decision in a similar fight to Froch's win over Arthur Abraham (not as lopsided though). In my opinion Froch was a great fighter, and it shows how great and versatile Ward is in the way that he beat him (Froch).
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Froch v GGG would be an entertaining and action packed fight. I think the size of Froch would be the deciding factor in him winning.
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mikeeod
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I hate to use this cliche but styles make fights. Froch in his prime was a difficult out. Really unorthodox in his approach with a killer right hand and a world class chin to back it up. There is no shame in losing to one of the best fighters of our time. He's also most likely a pretty good sized light heavyweight at fight time. Golovkin has a world class chin also but he's faced nobody who punches like Froch. I just don't see Golovkin walking Carl down and having his way or sticking his chin out and asking for one with a smile on his face.
I agree on styles making fights, and I think Froch is a horrible match up for GGG. Froch was very strong, very tough mentally and physically, had a great punch, and possessed underrated boxing skills. GGG would be significantly smaller, and while I think he would've lasted the distance and taken some rounds,
I see him losing the decision in a similar fight to Froch's win over Arthur Abraham (not as lopsided though). In my opinion Froch was a great fighter, and it shows how great and versatile Ward is in the way that he beat him (Froch).
There are not many similarities between AA and GGG other than their size. AA was very overrated at the time, no footwork , no reflexes, no head or body movement, that's why he lost every single round to the bigger guys : Froch, Ward, Dirrell.
I agree with the size factor but I don't think Froch was as skilled as GGG is and I don't say this because I think highly on Golovkin , it;s more because I believe Froch is pretty overrated as well. GGG never faced somebody as tough as Froch but at least he never struggled to beat lesser fighters and he controlled every fight, Froch on the other side was on par with an old Glenn Johnson, he got a gift against Dirrell who was beaten by GGG at amateurs, and was basically saved by the KO against JT.
If an old Kessler was able to get a points decision win over Froch in their first fight than IMHO GGG could have done the same thing.
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.
I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.
Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.
I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.
Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.
I have always said that Hagler and Monzons were weak divisions Hopkins moved up so i really cant say much about him he made the jump. I am just saying its kinda who knows with GGG to be compared to man who has fought high level comp and the division GGG in has to be one of the worst i have seen since i been watching boxing. Pretty much ever guy he has fought is a can or journey man who never beat anybody worth a shit. I mean people talk about lower weight guys not fighting him is not different then him not jumping up his division is cleaned and after Canelo it still be a shit division. It does not really matters if he wants to stay and clean house and records at division. I do not hate GGG but the fact is he simple has not beaten a high level fighter yet let alone a hof i am sure he will soon.
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.
I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.
Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.
I have always said that Hagler and Monzons were weak divisions Hopkins moved up so i really cant say much about him he made the jump. I am just saying its kinda who knows with GGG to be compared to man who has fought high level comp and the division GGG in has to be one of the worst i have seen since i been watching boxing. Pretty much ever guy he has fought is a can or journey man who never beat anybody worth a shit. I mean people talk about lower weight guys not fighting him is not different then him not jumping up his division is cleaned and after Canelo it still be a shit division. It does not really matters if he wants to stay and clean house and records at division. I do not hate GGG but the fact is he simple has not beaten a high level fighter yet let alone a hof i am sure he will soon.
But you are cherry picking. Nobody refers to Haglers crop as cans or Hopkins or Monzon. If the cream of the crop at middleweight are cans then there is nothing he can do about it. These cans he has dominated would fit into almost any post ww2 middle era. These gentlemen also had the advantage of people wanting to fight them. Hopkins was able to capture the undisputed crown and so was Hagler. Hopkins lost it and moved on. Hagler although not undisputed anymore based on politics lost to Leonard and then went on to do spaghetti westerns. Fact of the matter is, these other belt holders should be forced by the powers at be and their fans to fight the guy. If one of the Kazaks goals is to break Hopkins defense record and unify his chosen division then who are we Monday morning quarterbacks to expect otherwise? We've seemed to have reached a point now when righteous goals in the sport are frowned upon and fake champions make 25 million fighting against no hopers. And people seem ok with that.
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Two of my favourite posters going at it like Hagler v Hearns - nice. :cool:
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Homeostasis=The tendency of a system, especially the physiological system of higher animals, to maintain internal stability, owing to the coordinated response of its parts to any situation or stimulus that would tend to disturb its normal condition or function. In other words both men are comfortable in their divisions and a size differential between Froch and GGG would be in Froch's favor except his inactivity would definitely test his iron chin, He would be at a definite disadvantage because he is no longer as durable because he has been at rest. Right now the fight would not be to his advantage but years ago I feel that Froch with his hands down style took too many shots and he never remedied it so he shouldn't be a favorite yet he is the bigger man keeping him in the game but both men fought who was placed in front of them in other words cards from the deck dealt. This information helps me make my point coming from one of the two dullest books in the world, the dictionary and the other dull book not used for this discussion is the New York telephone directory.
Re: Think GGG could eat that right-hand that Froch sparked Groves with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr140
All i know is that Froch can beat guys that are on a high level you do not have wins over Kessler,Taylor,AA,Johnson and Pascal with out being able to take it to another level. GGG is a good can crusher who has not even sniffed anyone near that level his talent is untested.
I understand where you are coming from but you have taken things out of bounds a bit or rather have left significant factors out. One thing is that the middleweight division has always been notoriously less than ideal as far as the best verses the rest. Many of the great middles of past eras dominated the same type of division and it was only when they beat famous welters that they reached notoriety and sat atop atg lists. Golovkin can’t get there. He can’t get there because no welter would dare. Hell, the middleweights fighting at 154 wont dare either.
Every time this topic comes up many put up the same discredit but the facts matter. Hagler’s lodgepole along with Hopkins and Monzon's is no better Real Middleweight wise then Golovkins. As a matter of fact he has decimated the same kind of mid division they operated in only much sooner and could easily surpass Bernards 20 defense record much quicker. And it’s lucky for Hopkins I suppose that Don King owned every player in the middleweight tourney. Had it been the same today, Golovkin would have been undisputed middleweight champion a long time ago. The system we find ourselves in enables the plastic to roll on.
I have always said that Hagler and Monzons were weak divisions Hopkins moved up so i really cant say much about him he made the jump. I am just saying its kinda who knows with GGG to be compared to man who has fought high level comp and the division GGG in has to be one of the worst i have seen since i been watching boxing. Pretty much ever guy he has fought is a can or journey man who never beat anybody worth a shit. I mean people talk about lower weight guys not fighting him is not different then him not jumping up his division is cleaned and after Canelo it still be a shit division. It does not really matters if he wants to stay and clean house and records at division. I do not hate GGG but the fact is he simple has not beaten a high level fighter yet let alone a hof i am sure he will soon.
But you are cherry picking. Nobody refers to Haglers crop as cans or Hopkins or Monzon. If the cream of the crop at middleweight are cans then there is nothing he can do about it. These cans he has dominated would fit into almost any post ww2 middle era. These gentlemen also had the advantage of people wanting to fight them. Hopkins was able to capture the undisputed crown and so was Hagler. Hopkins lost it and moved on. Hagler although not undisputed anymore based on politics lost to Leonard and then went on to do spaghetti westerns. Fact of the matter is, these other belt holders should be forced by the powers at be and their fans to fight the guy. If one of the Kazaks goals is to break Hopkins defense record and unify his chosen division then who are we Monday morning quarterbacks to expect otherwise? We've seemed to have reached a point now when righteous goals in the sport are frowned upon and fake champions make 25 million fighting against no hopers. And people seem ok with that.
Nothing you have said changes that Hagler, Monzon and Hopkins division talent was weak which is the case for a lot of long term champs. The fact of the matter is that GGG division is a joke compared to those ones name a person GGG beat that worth a shit or not journey man who could not win against anyone that was talented. GGG crushing ok fighters and cans in division that make the hw seem like its the golden years again its a total joke. I understand why he stays there because it easier road it is the reason why Canelo has stayed were he is at it is the easy road. Just do not compare a fighter who has beaten fuck all to a guy who beat legit hall of famers they have not faced the same class not that can all change and GGG could move up or beat some great guy but until then he is a can crusher.
