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You think Hagler would be knocked out by GGG? Or were you just saying that people automatically choose fighters of previous generations for reasons related to nostalgia. Can see your point regarding nostalgia clouding judgement. Completely disagree that Hagler is stopped by any middleweight who ever lived, let alone GGG.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Any middleweight who ever lived???? So let's say a Middleweight RJJ fought Hagler....RJJ wouldn't be able to stop him? Ezzard Charles as a middleweight wouldn't stop him? I just find that a bit hard to believe. Hagler was solid and had a granite chin, but un-knock-out-able I don't think he was.
I don't see Roy stopping him. I just don't see it. At best Roy would outspeed him similar to his fights vs Hop and Toney. He never had either of those two in trouble and I don't see either having a better chin than Hagler.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Charles was a great fighter, in my opinion the GOAT at light heavy, but haven't seen much film of him at 160. He peaked at 175, so that leads me to believe that his strength/power may have suffered at 160. Things just "click" for certain fighters at certain weights. Hagler clicked at 160, and Charles clicked at 175. I don't see either being stopped at either weight by anyone.
GGG does his best work when the opponent takes time off. When would he get his best work done against Hagler? Bad matchup for GGG
Is it over 12 or 15 ?
I don't see anyone stopping Golovkin either but there are many fighters who seem unknockoutable until it happens. My head says Hagler on points because of his ability to readjust and find angles but maybe Gennady is more Marvelous than Marvin where heart is concerned, hard to tell until someone is able to really put it on him.
Hagler- close points decision.
I have seen both fighters in their time frame an Marvin aka the worker and man of war vs. the modern man of war but GGG takes coffee breaks during his defenses. He can't with Marvin but if he took his break after the fight, I feel war would have a new definition.
Hagler's chin was one of the best in history, any fighter who can withstand the right hand of Hearns is unstoppable.
OK, I understand that, I accept that, BUT just because I'm me how's about we consider just for a second Tommy Hearns' legs in the Hagler fight. It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power because power punchers punch with their entire body, feet all the way to the knuckles, Tommy didn't have his legs at 100% and therefore his power wasn't at 100%.....Marvin Hagler had some set of whiskers and maybe who knows, maybe if Tommy is 100% healthy maybe Marvin still looks Marvelous taking those shots but who knows, it's certainly something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I believe Hearns went for broke earlier while he still had power of his legs and it sliced Hagler's head.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOK, I understand that, I accept that, BUT just because I'm me how's about we consider just for a second Tommy Hearns' legs in the Hagler fight. It is well known that Tommy's legs were in poor shape in that fight ergo the toe to toe war we got because Tommy couldn't move, but that being the case, if your legs are injured at all it's going to take SOMETHING away from your power because power punchers punch with their entire body, feet all the way to the knuckles, Tommy didn't have his legs at 100% and therefore his power wasn't at 100%.....Marvin Hagler had some set of whiskers and maybe who knows, maybe if Tommy is 100% healthy maybe Marvin still looks Marvelous taking those shots but who knows, it's certainly something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
If Hagler was going to be stopped it would be for that or being stopped standing on his feet like La Motta.
Come on this is a no-brainer. You could hit Marvelous Marvin Hagler with the kitchen sink nothing would stop that guy. John the Beast mugabi hit just as hard as Triple G take a look at some of the shots that we landed period no way can Triple G stop Hagler from coming forward absolutely nobody could stop her from coming forward. Triple G is No Sugar Ray Leonard. Only a Sugar Ray Leonard can win that fight. Marvelous Marvin Hagler would beat the living crap and Daylights out of this guy slowly but surely by about the ninth round Triple G would be down on the floor crying with cracked ribs
Hagler has the options available to him from what I've seen of Golovkin when he was actually pressed hard. Can see him honestly staying one step ahead as it goes deep and staying smart. I'd be more worried about his body than his head though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
In the dressing room just before the fight, one of Tommy's buddies (a guy called Skidoo) was giving his legs a rubdown. He thought he was trying to help, but it warms down the muscles and puts them into recovery mode.
Thats the last thing you want BEFORE a fight.
Manny Stewart went completely apeshit and threw all the guys out of the dressing room. When they were alone, Manny told Tommy to change his tactics and jump on Hagler straight away.
He didn't tell him that his legs were going to gas out after the rubdown, to avoid putting doubt in his boxer's mind. Tommy didn't have any leg injury.
By that point in his career, Hearns was in love with his straight right. He wanted to absolutely devastate Hagler and he was confident he would do it, so he loved Manny's advice and certainly took it.
Funnily enough, Tommy was a master boxer and once he had severely cut Hagler, he could have gone on his bike for a couple of rounds and the ref would have stopped the fight.
Problem is, in his mind, Tommy was just a right hand and nothing else in that fight.
I can buy an argument that GGG could beat hagler (although I disagree), but you could never get me to buy an argument that GGG would KO him. Hagler has a top notch chin. He got hit by huge shots during his career. Shots that would have put out most other fighters and he just walked through them unfazed.
Tommy also injured, if not broke, that right hand when it landed on Hagler's hard head.Quote:
Originally Posted by XQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
In the dressing room just before the fight, one of Tommy's buddies (a guy called Skidoo) was giving his legs a rubdown. He thought he was trying to help, but it warms down the muscles and puts them into recovery mode.
Thats the last thing you want BEFORE a fight.
Manny Stewart went completely apeshit and threw all the guys out of the dressing room. When they were alone, Manny told Tommy to change his tactics and jump on Hagler straight away.
He didn't tell him that his legs were going to gas out after the rubdown, to avoid putting doubt in his boxer's mind. Tommy didn't have any leg injury.
By that point in his career, Hearns was in love with his straight right. He wanted to absolutely devastate Hagler and he was confident he would do it, so he loved Manny's advice and certainly took it.
Funnily enough, Tommy was a master boxer and once he had severely cut Hagler, he could have gone on his bike for a couple of rounds and the ref would have stopped the fight.
Problem is, in his mind, Tommy was just a right hand and nothing else in that fight.
Just as I do not see Hagler being stopped I do not see GGG being stopped. If a full blown cruiser weight who can punch could not hurt Golovkin then Hagler would not either.
It would be a small list of middleweights that would have been able to stop Hagler. Jackson, Ketchel, McClellan, Benn, Graziano, Hearns, Robinson, Jones Jr., Fitzsimmons, Langford, Fernandez. Possibly a few more I'd give a chance. Not saying these guys would knock him out but if they landed clean they could have.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong