He got knocked out in a round by a tomato can and wouldn't get back in the ring with him. The argument over this guy begins and ends there.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
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He got knocked out in a round by a tomato can and wouldn't get back in the ring with him. The argument over this guy begins and ends there.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
And YOUR favorite fighter's only big win was a SPLIT DECISION and he lost 12 fights....8 by stoppageQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
So get off Wladimir's case...he's a good ALL-TIME heavyweight and he has the years left in him to become great...maybe not top 10 but he could break in a solid top 15
Did you seriously just come onto this thread to write how you don't care about this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Oh, and you're forgetting Lamon Brewster, but I guess that would just erode your argument. If I'm not mistaken, Corey Sanders showed up at a slovenly 235 more than a year later when he fought Vitali (yes, I looked it up) and since then has been a hodgepodge of inactivity against nobodies until getting KO'd earlier this month. Exactly WHEN was Wlad supposed to fight him considering since that particular loss he took 2 tune-ups before challenging Lamon Brewster for the vacant WBO, then two tune-ups before challenging and beating Sam Peter for the IBF and since then collected the IBO belt Sanders wasn't in contention for, then 2 number 1 contenders then avenging his loss to a deserving, albeit tentative, Lamon Brewster and now about to fight another champion? When is that, hm?
That's the one thing I find most annoying about sports critics, boxing ones in particular. They become fixed on an argument to the point of irrational and childish name-calling and no amount of LOGIC will dissuade them from it.
~I drink your milkshake. Oh yeah, that's going in the siggy.
I'm not claiming that Kirkland laing was an all-time top 15 fighter, ot the dawn of a new age in the welterweight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Klitschko is never ever going to be ranked in the top heavyweights.
I'm posting in this thread because I can't believe there are so many people who take the current hevyweight division seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid
Klitschko would certainly have had an immediate rematch clause in his contract to fight Sanders the first time. Any boxer worth his salt, never mind one with pretentions to be a world champion would have got in the ring with him as soon as possible. Instead Vlad got his brother to fight him. The current top-rated heavyweight in the world got KO'd in a round by a journeyman and didn't have the balls to get back in the ring with him. That's the heavyweight division in a nutshell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Well I don't think I ever used the words "shit" or "crap" in my post. All I said is the division sucks. Mainly for the reasons you have just stated here. I also said it is moving in the right direction to make it a better division than it currently is.
Can a guy who was 38-2 really be described as a journeyman? What, because he's fought all over the world and has a couple losses? That would make a great deal of fighters journeyman who many would not describe as such. I would have described a journeyman as a veteran fighter who, win or lose, fights just about anywhere, anytime and is a place filler of an opponent for the guy everyone really came to see. I would expect a lower KO ratio and several more losses to have considered Sanders that. He was a competent, straight punching giant killer and he caught Klitschko right as he was hitting his 'rockstar status', meaning he was more interested in showing off to the fans than concentrating on a very viable opponent. Maybe Klitschko thought he was a journeyman, but anyone who had actually looked at his record would have thought better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
I don't think Klitschko-Ibragimov is the beginning of the new age in the division. If Ibragimov acquits himself well or manages to win is one thing- maybe that will be the ushering in of the superior, smaller heavyweight as Brewster thought was coming, but to find the new age one has only to look at the fighters waiting in the wings who will make for exciting fights in the next ten years or so. Sam Peter isn't even 30 years old and has been steadily improving, despite a rough road to victory against McCline. Alexander Povetkin showed what heart looks like, out-hustling the slick Eddie Chambers. David Haye may move up any minute and Klitschko himself is only 31. Heavyweights don't reach their prime until their mid to late 30s. I see him reigning as king of the division for at least the next five years until one of these upstarts has the guts to come after him. In that space of time he should be able to collect Chagaev and Peter's belts. Peter-Klitschko II will be a definite FOTY candidate, whatever year it happens in.
Yes, Corrie Sanders was a force to be feared in the heavyweight division, which was why he flew all the way to Germany to be the opponent against the name fighter in a country where you need a knock out to get a draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by liquid
Two words: Steve Cunningham. It's called confidence. Yes, he flew all the way to Germany, knowing full well Klitschko would be the favorite to win since he signed the contract and guess what? He won by KO. Guess how many other people had done that to him in over 40 fights- 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Oh, sorry. I guess Steve Cunningham is just a journeyman.
I don't know what Steve Cunningham has to do with anything.
...I just want to say there has only ever been 1 perfect heavyweight and even he get's hated on.
Just because a guy loses a fight doesn't mean he's a bum and just because a guy wins a few fights it doesn't make him great.
That being said, Wladimir Klitschko is the best heavyweight right now in a competitive division. Honestly we don't really know what else is out there.....most of these guys haven't been put to the fire, Wladimir has and sometimes he's come through OK and sometimes he hasn't but the good outweighs the bad in my opinion.
The Sunderland (North) 25-40s 5-a-side football league is competitive too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Hey you can have your opinion, it's wrong but hey you don't like the division don't post about itQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFnUBr14LyY
Bert Sugar says the heavyweight division isn't dead....and I respect his opinion.
Wladimir wants to be the ONE true heavyweight champion and this is a stepping stone to become that...you can't do anything but praise him for trying to unify
Bert Sugar is working for HBO. Let's see where he ranks him the next time he writes a book on the heavyweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Klitschko still won't get anybody's attention if he does become unified least worst heavyweight because he just isn't good enough to make people want to watch. I'm off for a nice weekend and won't even watch the recording if it's a decision. If the heavyweight division can't get people like me interested it's going to remain dead and buried to the general public.
Bert Sugar doesn't work for HBO, he's a boxing WRITER....does HBO put out a magazine???? Last time I checked they didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Name me ONE heavyweight you appreciated
....hey some people think tofu is the best stuff on Earth but you won't catch me agreeing with them
HBO: Boxing: Bios: BERT RANDOLPH SUGARQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
You can read his columns on the HBO website. On the right side of this page you can see the names of the other HBO employees.
....fine and he's excited about a heavyweight fight....he doesn't HAVE to beQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
But anyway you don't care about the fight and the division then don't watch it and don't post about it because if you "aren't intrested" then why would anyone be "interested" in reading your opinion about it?
So let's just not waste everyone's time and you mozy along to other topics that are more interesting to you
He's speaking as an employee. Let's see what he and others have to say in a few years about the current heavyweights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If somebody is posting a thread about the dawn of a new age in heavyweight boxing I have the right to an opinion on that. Just don't bother reading my posts if you don't like reading what I'm saying.
Well I hate to break it to you but if there is a Unified Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World....it WILL be a new age in heavyweight boxing....hell just having a champion with 2 of the main belts is an acheivement in today's division with the outside influences. The division will be different and the good fighters will have to fight each other more often if they want a shot at the big guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
It won't be a new age, it'll just be a continuation of the existing rubbish one.
Well you are just going to have to learn to deal with disappointment big guy because I am not bending on my view of the division....I find the division just fine and even better once there is a unified champ because it means people actually have to do something to EARN a shot to beat the ONE TRUE CHAMPION.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
I don't really care if you think the division is bad.....I am just tired of reading it. Every post you have it's complaining about something.
Nobody has to earn anything in the heavyweight division. A 40 year old removal man and part-time boxer just fought for a version of the world title. If a live body comes along in the next couple of years they can take their pick of any of these guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
If you don't like what I'm writing that's just your tough fucking luck.
Are you talking about Skelton??? Wlad isn't fighting bums like him and if he had to he'd knock them out.....he KO'd Ray Austin in 2 and he told everyone beforehand that he wanted a unification bout but he had to fight his mandatory.
It's not just who you fight it's how you fight them....Joe Louis THE GREATEST Heavyweight Champion in the history of the sport had his "bum of the month club" but he beat them all by stoppage and gave the fans their money's worth.
But go ahead with your opinion I don't care
You gotta question Ray Austin being his mandatory, that was lame...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The funny thing is Ray Austin actually fought Sultan Ibragimov in an eliminator for this position. And drew.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
That is an example of the outside forces on boxing....promoters and guys who run these alphabet titles work hand in hand sometimes and sometimes they try to undercut a fighter.
Ray Austin worked hard for his title shot by defeating Larry Donald, Owen Beck, and drawing with Sultan Ibragimov. Why Beck was rated so highly after his TKO loss to Monte Barrett is something worth thinking about but this is another thing in boxing....if only the boxers chose who they wanted to fight then we might get bum after bum after bum, if only the promoters chose it might be similar, if only the alphabet people chose then we might get only the guys who pay dues to that alphabet group...right now it's a mix of all 3 and it still doesn't work well at times.
Ray Austin was completely overmatched and Wladimir did what any good champion would do, he KO'd the fighter without wasting any time.
I actually look forward to this Saturday night in some respects.
I see Klitschko taking it with that straight right hand. Sultan's southpaw stance may play right into his hands.
I agree. I think Klitschko wins this fight in big fashion. I don't see where Ibragimov has anything that could bother Wlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I think I hit the nail squarely on the head with "Giant Fairy."
...well I am happy to see your attitude is just as smug as it was the last time you posted on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
When it comes to the heavyweight division Wladimir is the man he dominated the other title holder eventhough he wasn't able to execute his true fight plan....he adapted and won, basically pitching a shutout.
And why would I feel anything new about your constant negative views on anything and everything....you know you're like the A-Bomb....everyone is laughing and having a great time and then you come along and boom everyone is dead
You're not defending that performance are you? He was facing a three foot midget who had to jump in the air to hit him on the chin and he was still too scared to throw a punch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
No, that performance wasn't what I had hoped for but Wladimir won and honestly that was the most basic thing I wanted from that fight.....although a KO would have been lovely.
Sultan proved to be a capable fighter and he took some big right crosses...when they were thrown of course.
Wladimir did what he needed to do to win, he'll KO the next guy....southpaws just aren't Wlad's bag and I don't think he's alone in that regard
I feel the quality of the fight was tarnished primarily by Sultan's hesitance to exchange after tasing Wladmir's power.
It's hard to look impresive against a man only concerned with self preservation on his mind.
Actually Lyle I don't hate Wlad. But I was saying that basically using the logic started in this thread that Wlad (the winner now) is the linear champ based on his win over another champ, then the winner of the Peter-Makaev fight could fight the Wba champ and the winner of that fight could also claim to be the linear champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I do praise him for wanting to unify. Then he can be the linear/undisputed champion. And hopefully then he can tell the boxing groups to go to hell.
Exactly! If there was just ONE title then things would be so much easier.
Wladimir has 3 belts and 2 supply a steady flow of mandatories who are usually either bums or only recognized highly under that sanctioning body because that's the only one they pay dues to.
BOXING as a whole would be better off with a ranking system like that of College Football or Basketball.
Wladimir right now has to fight the 2 mandatories and then try and schedule a unfication bout when either Chagaev or Peter/Maskaev winner has a free spot available....that's a lot to get right at the correct time.
Wladimir is the unofficial Heavyweight Champion of the World right now....and due to the other sanctioning bodies we have no idea how to fill out the top 5 much less top 10
Exactly. I want to see the KO and the right more, but fight sucked because of Sultan, not Wlad. Sultan didn't fight to win...he fought to survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySean
I agree... Of course the Jab was gonna be hard to get through... Everyone knew that... But to virtually not get through it at all? Showed a lack of hunger:-\