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I agree with Donny. Paulie is number 2 in the division and is a fellow belt holder. Pac aint even had one fight at 140 yet and I know if Hatton beat Pac people will just say oh big wow he started out as a flyweight. Hatton would get NO credit. Paulie is a natural jr welter and the best fight available to him at 140.
Wandering into dangerous territory here, but those people that handle the heat better would be black people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Joey Maxim doesn't get more credit for beating SRR because SRR was clearly winning the fight until SRR quit because of heat prostration which you can die from, im not saying Maxim wasn't under the same heat. but some humans can handle the heat better than others. Thats totally different from Pacquiao to Hatton plus Maxim weighed 17 more pounds than SRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyAs I mentioned earlier I feel that a win over Pacquiao would be denigrated as a win over a ntuarally smaller man.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
A win over Malignaggi, particularily a stoppage victory historically would be more highly regarded as a good win, given Malignaggis record.
Nobody applauds Joey Maxim for beating SRR, saying he just tired out the smaller man, see what I'm getting at?
Oh how different the story is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterGo back and read the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyPut in some effort, you've given no point as to why Pac vs. Hatton is a better fight apart from it being more exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I and Ice have made it perfectly CLEAR why Pac is a far more significant fight than Powderpuff.
Is Powderpuff a top 10 P4P fighter? Has Powderpuff EVER been a top 10 P4P fighter?
He is NOTHING more than a belt holder at 140. He's not undisputed champ. He doesn't have ONE significant WIN to his name. Hatton beats him it ranks alongside his wins over Maussa, Collazo (not as good) and Urango.
Pac is a boxing GREAT. Enough said.
When Junior Witter was a belt holder, he deserved his shot.
Yet Junior was never pound for pound was he?
What significant win had Witter?
Yet you yourself demanded the fight must happen.
Malignaggi is different why?
I actually see 2 very good arguments hereQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterGo back and read the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyPut in some effort, you've given no point as to why Pac vs. Hatton is a better fight apart from it being more exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I and Ice have made it perfectly CLEAR why Pac is a far more significant fight than Powderpuff.
Is Powderpuff a top 10 P4P fighter? Has Powderpuff EVER been a top 10 P4P fighter?
He is NOTHING more than a belt holder at 140. He's not undisputed champ. He doesn't have ONE significant WIN to his name. Hatton beats him it ranks alongside his wins over Maussa, Collazo (not as good) and Urango.
Pac is a boxing GREAT. Enough said.
Hatton would have just as much to lose by fighting manny as he would against powderpuff. If he knocks him flat out within 7 everyones just gonna say he beat on a far weaker opponent.
One thing hatton will hopefully of learned from his brief stint at 147 is to never count your chickens. Who`s to say hatton wouldnt go down as one of the great all time 140pounders if he avoided manny and spent the remainder of his career fighting the likes of malignaggi and bradley??
Retire at the top of your game, as the undisputed number1 in your division having beaten every remaining opponent there is to beat, that should be hattons prerogative.
But then you take into account the business side of our sport and realise hatton-pacquiao is probably inevitable and from a money making stand point is off far higher regard for the hitman.
No because Forrest when he beat Mosley who was P4P number 1 at the time Forrest didn't go to P4P number 1, not sure where he would be rated to be honest i would have to think about it, but he would be certainly up there in the P4P rankings. And your boy would be prasied by me and most boxing fans for beating Pacquiao, no matter if Pacquiao started at a lower weight class. We have to take into account that Pacquiao started pro boxing at 16 years old, so gradually as he as got older he has been getting bigger and stronger. So i think Jr Welterweight would be an ok weight for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftylee
So you wanna change the subject now? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyWandering into dangerous territory here, but those people that handle the heat better would be black people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBJoey Maxim doesn't get more credit for beating SRR because SRR was clearly winning the fight until SRR quit because of heat prostration which you can die from, im not saying Maxim wasn't under the same heat. but some humans can handle the heat better than others. Thats totally different from Pacquiao to Hatton plus Maxim weighed 17 more pounds than SRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Oh how different the story is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterGo back and read the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
I and Ice have made it perfectly CLEAR why Pac is a far more significant fight than Powderpuff.
Is Powderpuff a top 10 P4P fighter? Has Powderpuff EVER been a top 10 P4P fighter?
He is NOTHING more than a belt holder at 140. He's not undisputed champ. He doesn't have ONE significant WIN to his name. Hatton beats him it ranks alongside his wins over Maussa, Collazo (not as good) and Urango.
Pac is a boxing GREAT. Enough said.
When Junior Witter was a belt holder, he deserved his shot.
Yet Junior was never pound for pound was he?
What significant win had Witter?
Yet you yourself demanded the fight must happen.
Malignaggi is different why?
I have NO problem with Hatton fighting Powderpuff. YOU claimed it was a more SIGNIFICANT fight than Hatton-Pac.
Which is clearly RUBBISH.
Thats the fight the fans wanted to see at that time because Witter had been caling Hatton out for years so people wanted to see Hatton get rid of the critics and fight his nemesis. Now Witter lost to a mediocre opponent that fight is no longer an interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyWandering into dangerous territory here, but those people that handle the heat better would be black people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBJoey Maxim doesn't get more credit for beating SRR because SRR was clearly winning the fight until SRR quit because of heat prostration which you can die from, im not saying Maxim wasn't under the same heat. but some humans can handle the heat better than others. Thats totally different from Pacquiao to Hatton plus Maxim weighed 17 more pounds than SRR.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Oh how different the story is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterGo back and read the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
I and Ice have made it perfectly CLEAR why Pac is a far more significant fight than Powderpuff.
Is Powderpuff a top 10 P4P fighter? Has Powderpuff EVER been a top 10 P4P fighter?
He is NOTHING more than a belt holder at 140. He's not undisputed champ. He doesn't have ONE significant WIN to his name. Hatton beats him it ranks alongside his wins over Maussa, Collazo (not as good) and Urango.
Pac is a boxing GREAT. Enough said.
When Junior Witter was a belt holder, he deserved his shot.
Yet Junior was never pound for pound was he?
What significant win had Witter?
Yet you yourself demanded the fight must happen.
Malignaggi is different why?
As for your statement regarding the heat Donny i have never heard of that, all i know is that Robinson could of died from heat prostration, and he clearly was winning the fight until that happened, plus Maxim had a massive weight advantage thats why Maxim doesn't as much credit as you think he does deserve.
So what you're saying is that it is more significant to the 140lb division for the leading fighter to fight a blown up super featherweight than it is to fight a champion of the division?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSo you wanna change the subject now? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyWandering into dangerous territory here, but those people that handle the heat better would be black people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Oh how different the story is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
When Junior Witter was a belt holder, he deserved his shot.
Yet Junior was never pound for pound was he?
What significant win had Witter?
Yet you yourself demanded the fight must happen.
Malignaggi is different why?
I have NO problem with Hatton fighting Powderpuff. YOU claimed it was a more SIGNIFICANT fight than Hatton-Pac.
Which is clearly RUBBISH.
ICE with all due respect, I don't know many that actually want to see Witter fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBThats the fight the fans wanted to see at that time because Witter had been caling Hatton out for years so people wanted to see Hatton get rid of the critics and fight his nemesis. Now Witter lost to a mediocre opponent that fight is no longer an interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyWandering into dangerous territory here, but those people that handle the heat better would be black people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Oh how different the story is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
When Junior Witter was a belt holder, he deserved his shot.
Yet Junior was never pound for pound was he?
What significant win had Witter?
Yet you yourself demanded the fight must happen.
Malignaggi is different why?
As for your statement regarding the heat Donny i have never heard of that, all i know is that Robinson could of died from heat prostration, and he clearly was winning the fight until that happened, plus Maxim had a massive weight advantage thats why Maxim doesn't as much credit as you think he does deserve.
They wanted to see Hatton fight the leading LWW.
Right now that Malignaggi.
Funnily enough I don't actually like Maxim. He was trained by Jack Johnson for a while so I tried to like him, but I just can't.
I feel the reason that Robinson tied so badly was because of the vlume of work he invested in the fight and the punishment he administered.
Maxim took it all in his stride (because of size) and would have stopped Robinson if the fight had gone on.
Hatton is the CHAMPION of the division. Hatton is the MAN of the division. Powderpuff is a toilet belt holding challenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnySo what you're saying is that it is more significant to the 140lb division for the leading fighter to fight a blown up super featherweight than it is to fight a champion of the division?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSo you wanna change the subject now? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
I have NO problem with Hatton fighting Powderpuff. YOU claimed it was a more SIGNIFICANT fight than Hatton-Pac.
Which is clearly RUBBISH.
Pac is not just a "blown up superfeather." Pac is a boxing GREAT.
What i'm saying is - it's more significant for Hatton (star) and Pac (great, star) to fight than Hatton (star) and Powderpuff (dodgy hairdo, decent champ).
Again.. say Hatton beats both. When assessing Hatton's career what order will the wins be ranked in?
Powderpuff above Pac? Only by the deluded. ;)
Annoys me how the people who claimed ricky was dodging witter all of a sudden seemed to vanish after the bradley fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBThats the fight the fans wanted to see at that time because Witter had been caling Hatton out for years so people wanted to see Hatton get rid of the critics and fight his nemesis. Now Witter lost to a mediocre opponent that fight is no longer an interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyWandering into dangerous territory here, but those people that handle the heat better would be black people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Oh how different the story is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
When Junior Witter was a belt holder, he deserved his shot.
Yet Junior was never pound for pound was he?
What significant win had Witter?
Yet you yourself demanded the fight must happen.
Malignaggi is different why?
As for your statement regarding the heat Donny i have never heard of that, all i know is that Robinson could of died from heat prostration, and he clearly was winning the fight until that happened, plus Maxim had a massive weight advantage thats why Maxim doesn't as much credit as you think he does deserve.
Hatton loathes witter and would of liked nothing more than to of knocked him into next week. But hatton was also a realist and realised win,lose or draw, junior would be getting the pay off of his life and it would open up doors to a man who before hand never deserved it.
I never judged witter solely on the performance to judah as it was a tough fight to take and much closer than the 118-110 that got scored. But what we have always seen with junior is a guy that has made his name off of being as awkward as possible and almost if you like a glorified spoiler hence the reason why america dodged him for so many years and not juniors claim that it was because he was black.
So your going to claim that should Hatton fight and beat Pac, that people will not come out and say that Pac was too small?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHatton is the CHAMPION of the division. Hatton is the MAN of the division. Powderpuff is a toilet belt holding challenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnySo what you're saying is that it is more significant to the 140lb division for the leading fighter to fight a blown up super featherweight than it is to fight a champion of the division?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Pac is not just a "blown up superfeather." Pac is a boxing GREAT.
What i'm saying is - it's more significant for Hatton (star) and Pac (great, star) to fight than Hatton (star) and Powderpuff (dodgy hairdo, decent champ).
Again.. say Hatton beats both. When assessing Hatton's career what order will the wins be ranked in?
Powderpuff above Pac? Only by the deluded. ;)
Or of course if Pac beats Hatton, people will not say Hatton got beat by a fighter that won the Superfeather on a MD earlier this year???
Being great does not make size irrelevant.
Floyd Mayweather Junior is a great, but it doesn't mean he could win a Lightheavyweight title.
Of course people will say Pac was small. Pac moving up in weight has a ready made excuse should he lose, and should he win the Hatton haters will undoubtedly have a field day.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnySo your going to claim that should Hatton fight and beat Pac, that people will not come out and say that Pac was too small?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterHatton is the CHAMPION of the division. Hatton is the MAN of the division. Powderpuff is a toilet belt holding challenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Pac is not just a "blown up superfeather." Pac is a boxing GREAT.
What i'm saying is - it's more significant for Hatton (star) and Pac (great, star) to fight than Hatton (star) and Powderpuff (dodgy hairdo, decent champ).
Again.. say Hatton beats both. When assessing Hatton's career what order will the wins be ranked in?
Powderpuff above Pac? Only by the deluded. ;)
Or of course if Pac beats Hatton, people will not say Hatton got beat by a fighter that won the Superfeather on a MD earlier this year???
Being great does not make size irrelevant.
Floyd Mayweather Junior is a great, but it doesn't mean he could win a Lightheavyweight title.
BUT.. that's irrelevant to this little debate. In history Pac will still go down as Hatton's BEST win alongside Tszyu. Pac-Hatton will be a GREAT event/fight. And prove to be FAR more significant than Powderpuff-Hatton will EVER be ;)
(by the way, Pac won that SD against a fellow GREAT fighter JMM. It is hardly a shame to BEAT a GREAT, whatever the weight ;))
You have two conflicting points in your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterOf course people will say Pac was small. Pac moving up in weight has a ready made excuse should he lose, and should he win the Hatton haters will undoubtedly have a field day.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnySo your going to claim that should Hatton fight and beat Pac, that people will not come out and say that Pac was too small?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Or of course if Pac beats Hatton, people will not say Hatton got beat by a fighter that won the Superfeather on a MD earlier this year???
Being great does not make size irrelevant.
Floyd Mayweather Junior is a great, but it doesn't mean he could win a Lightheavyweight title.
BUT.. that's irrelevant to this little debate. In history Pac will still go down as Hatton's BEST win alongside Tszyu. Pac-Hatton will be a GREAT event/fight. And prove to be FAR more significant than Powderpuff-Hatton will EVER be ;)
(by the way, Pac won that MD against a fellow GREAT fighter JMM. It is hardly a shame to BEAT a GREAT ;))
On the one hand you say that people will criticise Hatton's win saying Pac is too small and on the other you say that it will be recognised as Hatton's best win?
If the people think that Pac is too small for him then how will it be regarded as a great win?
I thinkmthat Hatton would be far better served legacy wise clearing the board of other LWW's. If he has 3more fights Malignaggi, Torres and Bradlley, tehn he would be recognised as a graet LWW himself.
Then by all means cash in with a marquee fight.
But you know as well as I do, this fight was only ever conceived because of the potential profitability of such an event.
Because people REMEMBER star fights between great fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyYou have two conflicting points in your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterOf course people will say Pac was small. Pac moving up in weight has a ready made excuse should he lose, and should he win the Hatton haters will undoubtedly have a field day.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
BUT.. that's irrelevant to this little debate. In history Pac will still go down as Hatton's BEST win alongside Tszyu. Pac-Hatton will be a GREAT event/fight. And prove to be FAR more significant than Powderpuff-Hatton will EVER be ;)
(by the way, Pac won that MD against a fellow GREAT fighter JMM. It is hardly a shame to BEAT a GREAT ;))
On the one hand you say that people will criticise Hatton's win saying Pac is too small and on the other you say that it will be recognised as Hatton's best win?
If the people think that Pac is too small for him then how will it be regarded as a great win?
I thinkmthat Hatton would be far better served legacy wise clearing the board of other LWW's. If he has 3more fights Malignaggi, Torres and Bradlley, tehn he would be recognised as a graet LWW himself.
Then by all means cash in with a marquee fight.
But you know as well as I do, this fight was only ever conceived because of the potential profitability of such an event.
I'm not talking about internet boxing anoraks/nerds. People that hate Hatton (or any fighter) will critisise him whatever he does.
When looking at Hatton's career do you think people will say his best wins were - "Tsyzu, urango, Collazo, Powderpuff, Castillo, Tackie, .. oh.. and that little guy, whatshisname, Pacman" ;D
Of course not, he'll be ranked alongside Kostya.
I can completely understand the concept of name recognition, but you must realise, Pacquiao is famous for his achievements and accolades at much lower weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBecause people REMEMBER star fights between great fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyYou have two conflicting points in your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
On the one hand you say that people will criticise Hatton's win saying Pac is too small and on the other you say that it will be recognised as Hatton's best win?
If the people think that Pac is too small for him then how will it be regarded as a great win?
I thinkmthat Hatton would be far better served legacy wise clearing the board of other LWW's. If he has 3more fights Malignaggi, Torres and Bradlley, tehn he would be recognised as a graet LWW himself.
Then by all means cash in with a marquee fight.
But you know as well as I do, this fight was only ever conceived because of the potential profitability of such an event.
I'm not talking about internet boxing anoraks/nerds. People that hate Hatton (or any fighter) will critisise him whatever he does.
When looking at Hatton's career do you think people will say his best wins were - "Tsyzu, urango, Collazo, Powderpuff, Castillo, Tackie, .. oh.. and that little guy, whatshisname, Pacman" ;D
Of course not, he'll be ranked alongside Kostya.
Even the fans with a vague interest realise that.
Hatton's status is almost affirmed. The boxing public know where they rank him, NO.1 at Lww but outside the P4P top 10.
I cannot see a win over a smaller opponent elevating this status, where as I can see wins over Malignaggi, Torres and/or Bradley contributing to his case.
Where as a showdown with Pac and a win, would provide enough financial merit for a retirement, without proving all that much, except that he can beat up a smaller man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyAs I mentioned earlier I feel that a win over Pacquiao would be denigrated as a win over a ntuarally smaller man.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBJust a question for you here Donny you said you see Hatton vs Paulie as the more significant fight, but do you think majority of boxing fans will see it that way ?? because i very much doubt it. I can guarantee you if Hatton beat P4P number 1 boxing star Manny Pacquiao he would get tons more credit than he would against the joker Paulie as he is known as now. And i would certainly praise Hatton if he beat Pacquiao, certainly much more than if he beat the feather fisted joker Paulie just my two cents here Donny.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
A win over Malignaggi, particularily a stoppage victory historically would be more highly regarded as a good win, given Malignaggis record.
Nobody applauds Joey Maxim for beating SRR, saying he just tired out the smaller man, see what I'm getting at?
You're only considering if Hatton wins, how about if Hatton loses (which is not a remote possibility on both fights)?
Which one is more degrading, a member of the 80s boy band beating Hatton or the no. 1 P4P boxer beating Hatton?
I think there's no shame being beaten by the no. 1 P4P boxer in the world...
I have fully considered the possibility of Hatton losing. Read over my posts again.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyAs I mentioned earlier I feel that a win over Pacquiao would be denigrated as a win over a ntuarally smaller man.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
A win over Malignaggi, particularily a stoppage victory historically would be more highly regarded as a good win, given Malignaggis record.
Nobody applauds Joey Maxim for beating SRR, saying he just tired out the smaller man, see what I'm getting at?
You're only considering if Hatton wins, how about if Hatton loses (which is not a remote possibility on both fights)?
Which one is more degrading, a member of the 80s boy band beating Hatton or the no. 1 P4P boxer beating Hatton?
I think there's no shame being beaten by the no. 1 P4P boxer in the world...
But Hatton would be disgraced being beaten by a fighter coming up from a much lower weight class.
Malignaggi, Torres and Bradlley are nobodies compared with Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyI can completely understand the concept of name recognition, but you must realise, Pacquiao is famous for his achievements and accolades at much lower weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBecause people REMEMBER star fights between great fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
I'm not talking about internet boxing anoraks/nerds. People that hate Hatton (or any fighter) will critisise him whatever he does.
When looking at Hatton's career do you think people will say his best wins were - "Tsyzu, urango, Collazo, Powderpuff, Castillo, Tackie, .. oh.. and that little guy, whatshisname, Pacman" ;D
Of course not, he'll be ranked alongside Kostya.
Even the fans with a vague interest realise that.
Hatton's status is almost affirmed. The boxing public know where they rank him, NO.1 at Lww but outside the P4P top 10.
I cannot see a win over a smaller opponent elevating this status, where as I can see wins over Malignaggi, Torres and/or Bradley contributing to his case.
Where as a showdown with Pac and a win, would provide enough financial merit for a retirement, without proving all that much, except that he can beat up a smaller man.
Did it hurt Hopkins career that his two STAR wins were against welterweights? Tito and Oscar MADE him ;)
Tito and Oscar were two very tall Welters.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterMalignaggi, Torres and Bradlley are nobodies compared with Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyI can completely understand the concept of name recognition, but you must realise, Pacquiao is famous for his achievements and accolades at much lower weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Even the fans with a vague interest realise that.
Hatton's status is almost affirmed. The boxing public know where they rank him, NO.1 at Lww but outside the P4P top 10.
I cannot see a win over a smaller opponent elevating this status, where as I can see wins over Malignaggi, Torres and/or Bradley contributing to his case.
Where as a showdown with Pac and a win, would provide enough financial merit for a retirement, without proving all that much, except that he can beat up a smaller man.
Did it hurt Hopkins career that his two STAR wins were against welterweights? Tito and Oscar MADE him ;)
Their bodies could both handle the Middleweight division.
(With Tito now fighting at 168 and Oscar walking around daily at 160.)
They were true Middleweights by the time they faced Hopkins.
In addition both Oscar and Tito had their successes in the Middleweight division before fighting Hopkins.
Tito's win over Joppy and Oscar's shady victory overSturm had proved they could hang at the weight and as such they had introduced themselves to the Middleweight ranks.
Fair point. But I believe Pac is taller and has a longer reach than Hatton. He is hardly going to look dwarfed now, is he ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyTito and Oscar were two very tall Welters.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterMalignaggi, Torres and Bradlley are nobodies compared with Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Did it hurt Hopkins career that his two STAR wins were against welterweights? Tito and Oscar MADE him ;)
Their bodies could both handle the Middleweight division.
(With Tito now fighting at 168 and Oscar walking around daily at 160.)
They were true Middleweights by the time they faced Hopkins.
In addition both Oscar and Tito had their successes in the Middleweight division before fighting Hopkins.
Tito's win over Joppy and Oscar's shady victory overSturm had proved they could hang at the weight and as such they had introduced themselves to the Middleweight ranks.
Just look at the interest a Pac-Hatton fight has generated since his emphatic win over Diaz. So much so that the MAJORITY are calling for it NOW. It shows Powderpuff-Hatton is such a big fight that step aside money was predicted so Powderpuff would get lost. ;)
I'd actually like to consult boxrec on the top ten light welters, I'd be willing to bet that 70% have a longer reach. I'm going to check that later.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterFair point. But I believe Pac is taller and has a longer reach than Hatton. He is hardly going to look dwarfed now, is he ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyTito and Oscar were two very tall Welters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Their bodies could both handle the Middleweight division.
(With Tito now fighting at 168 and Oscar walking around daily at 160.)
They were true Middleweights by the time they faced Hopkins.
In addition both Oscar and Tito had their successes in the Middleweight division before fighting Hopkins.
Tito's win over Joppy and Oscar's shady victory overSturm had proved they could hang at the weight and as such they had introduced themselves to the Middleweight ranks.
Just look at the interest a Pac-Hatton fight has generated since his emphatic win over Diaz. So much so that the MAJORITY are calling for it NOW. It shows Powderpuff-Hatton is such a big fight that step aside money was predicted so Powderpuff would get lost. ;)
Pacquiao beat Diaz impressively, but how much of that interest was generated by his previously unsure fans who thought he was losing power as he climbed the weight classes.
At the end of the day, I believe, Hatton vs. Pac will happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyI have fully considered the possibility of Hatton losing. Read over my posts again.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
You're only considering if Hatton wins, how about if Hatton loses (which is not a remote possibility on both fights)?
Which one is more degrading, a member of the 80s boy band beating Hatton or the no. 1 P4P boxer beating Hatton?
I think there's no shame being beaten by the no. 1 P4P boxer in the world...
But Hatton would be disgraced being beaten by a fighter coming up from a much lower weight class.
Hatton can proudly say that he only lost to the no. 1 boxers in the world while I can't visualize him saying a word if ever he got beaten by a guy with weird hairdo...
Ngoudjo is paulies mandatory, so he may be getting his rematch in future.
No reason why hatton is not fighting pac..
Hatton turned down the oscar payday aswell..
Its just the fact that they had been working towards the paulie fight and they said that they will honour theyr agreement to fight next..
I dont think there is any intention to look past pac thuough.. i think they want a date early next year for that fight..
As I mentioned in an earlier posting,Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyI have fully considered the possibility of Hatton losing. Read over my posts again.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
But Hatton would be disgraced being beaten by a fighter coming up from a much lower weight class.
Hatton can proudly say that he only lost to the no. 1 boxers in the world while I can't visualize him saying a word if ever he got beaten by a guy with weird hairdo...
greatness or indeed the mantle of pound for pound no.1 fighter in the world does not make size irrelevant.
When Pacquiao gets in the ring with Ricky, he will be a much smaller man.
If his skills are sufficient to compensate for the size disadvantage then he truely deserves his moniker.
But in saying that if Ricky loses then it is a great shame on him.
What i would like to know though is this.
Should Paulie beat hatton.. Does pac want paulie?..
Because in all fairness as styles go.. Boxing wise and the way that pac has already carried his power to lightweight well.. i think he would stop hatton..
But although possibly quite a rank matchup in terms of contrasting styles..
pac -paulie is at least interesting.. And for pac its mainly the taking of the titles rather then the matchup.. Its the 6 weight titles which is as big a deal as hatton bieng the name..
I fear if paulie etches the win pac will stay at lightweight and look for interesting matches there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito BHB
That's why Team PAC is calling out Hatton coz they believed PAC has a big chance of beating Hatton. Style wise Hatton is made for PAC's style although Hatton is the bigger man, PAC is taller, has the reach advantage and the quicker guy.
theres definately been talk of it and both guys are blatantly up for the fight..Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by Tito BHB
That's why Team PAC is calling out Hatton coz they believed PAC has a big chance of beating Hatton. Style wise Hatton is made for PAC's style although Hatton is the bigger man, PAC is taller, has the reach advantage and the quicker guy.
I dont honestly think that hatton will drop everything for pac.. Pac'l prob have to waitt..
As I've said earlier, losing to the no. 1 P4P boxer in the world is no shame at all. It will be shameful if the one knocking you down is the ring post.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyAs I mentioned in an earlier posting,Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Hatton can proudly say that he only lost to the no. 1 boxers in the world while I can't visualize him saying a word if ever he got beaten by a guy with weird hairdo...
greatness or indeed the mantle of pound for pound no.1 fighter in the world does not make size irrelevant.
When Pacquiao gets in the ring with Ricky, he will be a much smaller man.
If his skills are sufficient to compensate for the size disadvantage then he truely deserves his moniker.
But in saying that if Ricky loses then it is a great shame on him.
If Hatton gets through Pac, it would be regarded as one of his best wins - but it would always come with the tag, kind of like the asterix with Maris' 61*.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I still think it would be a solid, competitive fight - I bet we'll see it soon enough. Pacquiao probably wouldn't be remiss in taking another fight at 135 or even 140 to continue adjusting to the weight.
It's like this:
- Ricky got beat by Mayweather.
- Ricky wanted a re-match with Mayweather
- Mayweather was scheduled to fight Oscar back end of this year
- Ricky arranged to have a number of fights in the interim whilst those two went about thier business
- A fight with Pac was mooted but considered a mismatch as Ricky would be too big for the phillipino
- Ricky fought Lazcano with Paulie on the undercard to set up the fight later in the year.
- Mayweather retired
- Pac beat Diaz
- A Pac v Ricky fight came to the fore
- Both Arum and Ray Hatton come out and say this is a fight for 2009, with Pac being lined up for Valero and Ricky sticking to his original plan.
- Ricky is now 'running scared' from Pac because he's not fighting him instead of Paulie and people are neglecting Pac has his own agenda.
It's funny really ;D
Right I'm going to simplify this as your not getting my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerAs I've said earlier, losing to the no. 1 P4P boxer in the world is no shame at all. It will be shameful if the one knocking you down is the ring post.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyAs I mentioned in an earlier posting,Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
greatness or indeed the mantle of pound for pound no.1 fighter in the world does not make size irrelevant.
When Pacquiao gets in the ring with Ricky, he will be a much smaller man.
If his skills are sufficient to compensate for the size disadvantage then he truely deserves his moniker.
But in saying that if Ricky loses then it is a great shame on him.
Pac = Natural superfeatherweight.
Ricky= Natural Light Welter
With Ricky's size advantage he should be more than capable of beating the best Superfeatherweight in the world.
Beacuse you are good pound for pound DOES NOT MEAN THAT SIZE DOES NOT MATTER.
I hate when people say that. Hatton stepped in with Tsyzu at 140 - that takes a big set of cojones right there. No way he's gonna be afraid of Pac, even if he does lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by steelie
Lol.. So random question..
But has any one fighter ever lost two two successive p4p No1 champs ?
I cant really think of anyone..
Cos in effect that could be the case if hatton should loose to pac..
Can you imagine that :P
Ha.. ive already said before like.. if your gona have a loss on your record in all fiarness its a loss to the very best.. theres the least ammount of shame in that possible..
He could possibly say that twice over..
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyRight I'm going to simplify this as your not getting my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerAs I've said earlier, losing to the no. 1 P4P boxer in the world is no shame at all. It will be shameful if the one knocking you down is the ring post.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Pac = Natural superfeatherweight.
Ricky= Natural Light Welter
With Ricky's size advantage he should be more than capable of beating the best Superfeatherweight in the world.
Beacuse you are good pound for pound DOES NOT MEAN THAT SIZE DOES NOT MATTER.
Of course size (or weight) does matters, that's why boxing has weight classes. No one will support or sanctioned a fight if the other guy has tremendous size (or weight) advantage but many supported a Hatton-PAC fight so it means it is basically a fair fight and within the range of the weight class they will be fighting.
PAC already outgrown the super featherweight division and he's now considered a lightweight.
He could...Quote:
Lol.. So random question..
But has any one fighter ever lost two two successive p4p No1 champs ?
I cant really think of anyone..
Cos in effect that could be the case if hatton should loose to pac..
Can you imagine that :P
Ha.. ive already said before like.. if your gona have a loss on your record in all fiarness its a loss to the very best.. theres the least ammount of shame in that possible..
He could possibly say that twice over..
I'm not gonna big Pac up in the way that fans do of dangerous opponents (('just in case')), but Ricky defintely seems to have lost some of his punch resistance. There are rumours of viruses and other disruptions to training that perhaps explain it to a degree, but you do wonder...
Also, the footwork and angles that were once Hattons trademark, he seems unable to bring out of the gym. As a fan, it's massively frustrating...and the last person you wanna fight in straight lines with a question mark over your punch resistance is Pac...
Pac is a great fight for Ricky and his fans.
He has no chance against the "star" welters - Cotto. No chance of beating Floyd in a rematch and no chance with Oscar.
Pac moving up and looking so impressive has given Ricky the chance to be involved in ANOTHER mega fight.. just this time it's very winnable ;)
Wheeew... Took me a while to read through all that. :-\
:appl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito BHB
Brilliant...Quote:
Originally Posted by steelie
I agree with Donny and the rest who feel the Paulie fight is the way to go.
In this whole thread all that's been said is about Hatton, and as Steelie mentioned Pac does have his own agenda.
I think Pac should look at staying at LW at fighting there at least 2 more times. Who he should fight will be dictated as the 2 big LW fights take place. Pac could look for a "Homecoming" fight with someone like Yusuke in the Filipines. Just a keep busy fight and then fight anyone of the winners in the 2 big fights.
How many times is PBF killed and axed for jumping into div. and just beating one guy and particularly the weakest one and then jump right out?
I really think if Pac does and quick jump then this LW will mean just as much as the time PBF picked up the WBC and LWW vs. Gatti. :)
Ive just read a few of the replies on this thread and thought to myself how funny it is! Before Hatton fought and lost to the man who was generally regarded as the best fighter in the world at the time he was regarded as one of the top 10 p4p fighters in the world himself in most peoples lists. But now he has been beaten how crap is he all of a sudden? I mean the blokes dropped out of loads of p4p lists, he's ducking a man who started fighting 32lbs below him because he is all but signed up to fight a man who is holding a major belt in his own division and now Ive been reading how he has just lived on the memory of beating an ageing legend for the last 3 years despite moving up a division and winning a strap against a very game Collazo dropping back down and beating a very good all be it declining Castillo and then once losing making a comeback and winning against another former world title challenger. I think its time people got off his back and judged him not now but at the end of his career.
After 6 pages of replies, I noticed one saying the Hatton-Paulie fight "not signed" yet and also one saying it's already signed and delivered.
Other replies just presented different views of the possible Hatton-PAC fight.
I just leave this thread with PAC's comments regarding a Hatton fight;
"If I'm made to choose for an opponent, I want Hatton first and then Valero."
"Regarding Hatton, I really like that fight eversince, it's a real fight, a brawl, a punch out. It's going to be a beautiful fight, really beautiful and he's also strong so I need at least 3 months training."
think paulie should gte teh chance to fight hatton so we can unify.