If these guys fought prime 4 prime on there best night who would have most Wins?

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Slowmotion426

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Originally Posted by Master

Yes just like Saunders did to him ;)

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The only Heavyweight Champ who didn't eventually get destroyed by someone else is Rocky Marciano.

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Ever heard of Gene Tunney ??

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Doh! M'bad.

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

Prime for prime??


1. Mike Tyson - I'm talking about 80's Tyson...... not 90's post prison Tyson. The loss of Cus D'Amato (who was basiclly Tyson's Dad and was without a doubt his mentor) absolutely destroyed "Iron," Mike.

2. Riddick Bowe - Again.... we're talking about fighters when they were at their absolute peak. Riddick Bowe on his "A," game was damn near unbeatable.

3. Wladmir Klitchko - He was very flawed a while back, but Manny polished out those flaws and turned Klitchko into a monster. When you have a guy that big that has been blessed with so many physical attributes, and turn him into one of the most technically sound heavyweights in ages..... then you have an all time great.

4. Lennox Lewis - Another guy that was physically gifted but flawed......... until Manny got to him

5. Evander Holyfield - Great fighter until he moved to heavyweight. Then when he hit heavyweight, he was just a bigger version of Arturo Gatti. Very exciting because his defensive plan was to just let guys punch him in the face, but ultimately..... he won a few big fights at HW but lost to far too many lackluster opponents.

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Umm,wow :-X.And exactly how many times does Gattis name come up when the topic of top ten all time Jr.Light/Lightweights surface...;D Holyfield backseated his boxing mind for pride at times but he was far more than a face first catcher but definatly has hung around far to long.Byrd,Donald & Toney were hard fights to watch....but Foreman,Tyson,Holmes,Lewis are hall of famers.

im forever hearing about tyson in his prime and the hard reality is that MT always had trouble against big men who could jab and move. Douglas beat him fair and square after bein put on the broad of his back. If MT wasnt fit/having problems/drinking/whoring then tough s**t. Thats his own fault. One of Douglas parents had just died so he would have had his problems too, or does MT have the copyright.
anyhow,
1. Lewis. greatly underated and in time will be appreciated. history
will be kind to him.Fought everyone and anyone.
2.Holyfield. great heart,boxing ability and will to win
3.Tyson. no longevity so therefore not great. Exciting yes, explosive yes
Up with the greats? puur-lease. also paid 'step aside' money.
4.Bowe. Nothing special. relinquised title rather than fight lewis. self explanitory.
5.Klitschko. anti-Lewis people always say he was beating Lewis.Less than mid-rounds stoppage and 60stitches says different

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Slowmotion426

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Originally Posted by Master

Yes just like Saunders did to him ;)

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The only Heavyweight Champ who didn't eventually get destroyed by someone else is Rocky Marciano.

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Ever heard of Gene Tunney ??

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Tunney had a few losses earlier in his career too

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Originally Posted by johnmaff36

im forever hearing about tyson in his prime and the hard reality is that MT always had trouble against big men who could jab and move. Douglas beat him fair and square after bein put on the broad of his back. If MT wasnt fit/having problems/drinking/whoring then tough s**t. Thats his own fault. One of Douglas parents had just died so he would have had his problems too, or does MT have the copyright.
anyhow,
1. Lewis. greatly underated and in time will be appreciated. history
will be kind to him.Fought everyone and anyone.
2.Holyfield. great heart,boxing ability and will to win
3.Tyson. no longevity so therefore not great. Exciting yes, explosive yes
Up with the greats? puur-lease. also paid 'step aside' money.
4.Bowe. Nothing special. relinquised title rather than fight lewis. self explanitory.
5.Klitschko. anti-Lewis people always say he was beating Lewis.Less than mid-rounds stoppage and 60stitches says different

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#1 Wrong Klitschko, Vitali fought Lennox

#2 Vitali WAS winning the fight when it was properly stopped

#3 Ever notice that there was no rematch, it wasn't because Vitali didn't want or earn one

Well I think at his absolute best Holyfield beats all the rest so.

Holyfield (4-0)
Lewis (3-1)
Tyson (2-2)
Bowe (1-3)
Wlad (0-4)

Sorry Wlad but I just don't see you beating any of the above at their best!

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Originally Posted by johnmaff36

im forever hearing about tyson in his prime and the hard reality is that MT always had trouble against big men who could jab and move. Douglas beat him fair and square after bein put on the broad of his back. If MT wasnt fit/having problems/drinking/whoring then tough s**t. Thats his own fault. One of Douglas parents had just died so he would have had his problems too, or does MT have the copyright.
anyhow,
1. Lewis. greatly underated and in time will be appreciated. history
will be kind to him.Fought everyone and anyone.
2.Holyfield. great heart,boxing ability and will to win
3.Tyson. no longevity so therefore not great. Exciting yes, explosive yes
Up with the greats? puur-lease. also paid 'step aside' money.
4.Bowe. Nothing special. relinquised title rather than fight lewis. self explanitory.
5.Klitschko. anti-Lewis people always say he was beating Lewis.Less than mid-rounds stoppage and 60stitches says different

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How much did he really stuggle though? He may have had more trouble than he did with other style fighters, but he wasn't truly in trouble against.......

Bonecrusher
Biggs
Thomas
Tucker
Tubbs

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by johnmaff36

im forever hearing about tyson in his prime and the hard reality is that MT always had trouble against big men who could jab and move. Douglas beat him fair and square after bein put on the broad of his back. If MT wasnt fit/having problems/drinking/whoring then tough s**t. Thats his own fault. One of Douglas parents had just died so he would have had his problems too, or does MT have the copyright.
anyhow,
1. Lewis. greatly underated and in time will be appreciated. history
will be kind to him.Fought everyone and anyone.
2.Holyfield. great heart,boxing ability and will to win
3.Tyson. no longevity so therefore not great. Exciting yes, explosive yes
Up with the greats? puur-lease. also paid 'step aside' money.
4.Bowe. Nothing special. relinquised title rather than fight lewis. self explanitory.
5.Klitschko. anti-Lewis people always say he was beating Lewis.Less than mid-rounds stoppage and 60stitches says different

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#1 Wrong Klitschko, Vitali fought Lennox

#2 Vitali WAS winning the fight when it was properly stopped

#3 Ever notice that there was no rematch, it wasn't because Vitali didn't want or earn one

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No it was because Lewis realised he had almost come to the end and a rematch with Vitali could have ended in disaster.

The greatest call on retirement I have ever seen in boxing. Lennox earned my respect when he retired.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Well I think at his absolute best Holyfield beats all the rest so.

Holyfield (4-0)
Lewis (3-1)
Tyson (2-2)
Bowe (1-3)
Wlad (0-4)

Sorry Wlad but I just don't see you beating any of the above at their best!

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Holyfieldwas at his best he lost the first Bowe fight imo

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by johnmaff36

im forever hearing about tyson in his prime and the hard reality is that MT always had trouble against big men who could jab and move. Douglas beat him fair and square after bein put on the broad of his back. If MT wasnt fit/having problems/drinking/whoring then tough s**t. Thats his own fault. One of Douglas parents had just died so he would have had his problems too, or does MT have the copyright.
anyhow,
1. Lewis. greatly underated and in time will be appreciated. history
will be kind to him.Fought everyone and anyone.
2.Holyfield. great heart,boxing ability and will to win
3.Tyson. no longevity so therefore not great. Exciting yes, explosive yes
Up with the greats? puur-lease. also paid 'step aside' money.
4.Bowe. Nothing special. relinquised title rather than fight lewis. self explanitory.
5.Klitschko. anti-Lewis people always say he was beating Lewis.Less than mid-rounds stoppage and 60stitches says different

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How much did he really stuggle though? He may have had more trouble than he did with other style fighters, but he wasn't truly in trouble against.......

Bonecrusher
Biggs
Thomas
Tucker
Tubbs

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He wasn't in trouble vs bonecrusher until bonecrusher decided to punch him in the last round. then he seemed to have quite a few problems.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by johnmaff36

im forever hearing about tyson in his prime and the hard reality is that MT always had trouble against big men who could jab and move. Douglas beat him fair and square after bein put on the broad of his back. If MT wasnt fit/having problems/drinking/whoring then tough s**t. Thats his own fault. One of Douglas parents had just died so he would have had his problems too, or does MT have the copyright.
anyhow,
1. Lewis. greatly underated and in time will be appreciated. history
will be kind to him.Fought everyone and anyone.
2.Holyfield. great heart,boxing ability and will to win
3.Tyson. no longevity so therefore not great. Exciting yes, explosive yes
Up with the greats? puur-lease. also paid 'step aside' money.
4.Bowe. Nothing special. relinquised title rather than fight lewis. self explanitory.
5.Klitschko. anti-Lewis people always say he was beating Lewis.Less than mid-rounds stoppage and 60stitches says different

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How much did he really stuggle though? He may have had more trouble than he did with other style fighters, but he wasn't truly in trouble against.......

Bonecrusher
Biggs
Thomas
Tucker
Tubbs

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He wasn't in trouble vs bonecrusher until bonecrusher decided to punch him in the last round. then he seemed to have quite a few problems.

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;D It was a heavy weight world title fight, he was gonna have moments where everything didn't go his way, but he still won clearly like he did in all of his fights pre Douglas

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Well I think at his absolute best Holyfield beats all the rest so.

Holyfield (4-0)
Lewis (3-1)
Tyson (2-2)
Bowe (1-3)
Wlad (0-4)

Sorry Wlad but I just don't see you beating any of the above at their best!

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Holyfieldwas at his best he lost the first Bowe fight imo

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Nah not IMO. He was in the rematch but Bowe may not have been. In the first match he had just lost his brother after he was shot in the chest by his best friend. I think that may have had some mental effect.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Well I think at his absolute best Holyfield beats all the rest so.

Holyfield (4-0)
Lewis (3-1)
Tyson (2-2)
Bowe (1-3)
Wlad (0-4)

Sorry Wlad but I just don't see you beating any of the above at their best!

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Holyfieldwas at his best he lost the first Bowe fight imo

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Nah not IMO. He was in the rematch but Bowe may not have been. In the first match he had just lost his brother after he was shot in the chest by his best friend. I think that may have had some mental effect.

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I just think he came up against somebody that was at their very peak and was far too big. P4P Holyfield may have won that fight, but Bowe's performance is one of the best and most complete I have seen in a Heavyweight world Title fight. Bowe never reproduced that form again though.

Bowe was overqweight, under prepared and had to deal with not knowing what had happend to his wife (Fan Man) in the 2nd fight, which Holyfiled just nicked imo.

Having said that Bowe did decide to kidnap his wife a few years later, so maybe he wasn't that fond of her anyway ;D

Lewis

Tyson

Holyfield

Bowe

Wlad

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by johnmaff36

im forever hearing about tyson in his prime and the hard reality is that MT always had trouble against big men who could jab and move. Douglas beat him fair and square after bein put on the broad of his back. If MT wasnt fit/having problems/drinking/whoring then tough s**t. Thats his own fault. One of Douglas parents had just died so he would have had his problems too, or does MT have the copyright.
anyhow,
1. Lewis. greatly underated and in time will be appreciated. history
will be kind to him.Fought everyone and anyone.
2.Holyfield. great heart,boxing ability and will to win
3.Tyson. no longevity so therefore not great. Exciting yes, explosive yes
Up with the greats? puur-lease. also paid 'step aside' money.
4.Bowe. Nothing special. relinquised title rather than fight lewis. self explanitory.
5.Klitschko. anti-Lewis people always say he was beating Lewis.Less than mid-rounds stoppage and 60stitches says different

---

How much did he really stuggle though? He may have had more trouble than he did with other style fighters, but he wasn't truly in trouble against.......

Bonecrusher
Biggs
Thomas
Tucker
Tubbs

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He was in trouble against James Tillis, and had it not been for a bit of a lucky knockdown. He may well of lost that fight on points.

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Holyfieldwas at his best he lost the first Bowe fight imo

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Nah not IMO. He was in the rematch but Bowe may not have been. In the first match he had just lost his brother after he was shot in the chest by his best friend. I think that may have had some mental effect.

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I just think he came up against somebody that was at their very peak and was far too big. P4P Holyfield may have won that fight, but Bowe's performance is one of the best and most complete I have seen in a Heavyweight world Title fight. Bowe never reproduced that form again though.

Bowe was overqweight, under prepared and had to deal with not knowing what had happend to his wife (Fan Man) in the 2nd fight, which Holyfiled just nicked imo.

Having said that Bowe did decide to kidnap his wife a few years later, so maybe he wasn't that fond of her anyway ;D

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Riddick Bowe looked like complete fighter because Evander Holyfield, stood right infront of the much bigger man and was over-powered which played into Riddick Bowe's hand. Evander Holyfield was better in the rematch because he had much better tactics, sticking-moving and sometimes staying on the inside and countering.

Riddick Bowe even in his prime didn't do well against fighters with good jabs, that kept him on the outside. He was outboxed by a shot Tony Tubbs. And received a gift decision, and he was getting outboxed by Tyrell Biggs until Riddick Bowe caught up to Tyrell Biggs.

Speaking of Tony Tubbs, what a wasted talent he was. He could've been a fantastic champion. I think he went something like 250-10 as an amateur and was destined for great things

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Speaking of Tony Tubbs, what a wasted talent he was. He could've been a fantastic champion. I think he went something like 250-10 as an amateur and was destined for great things

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Alot of the 80's Heavyweights were talented mate, Greg Page was a bit like Muhammad Ali. And everyone thought he was the new Muhammad Ali, because he was from the same hometown, and he had the low hand style like Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali was even impressed by Greg Page when he see him fight.

Tony Tubbs was really good though, and he had very fast hands. And he's got to be borderline top 10 for the fastest handspeed ever at Heavyweight. But he was lazy in training, got overweight then drugs affected him.

Which is basically the story for most of the lost generation of Heavyweights in the 80s, he was pretty good in the Riddick Bowe fight, that night Riddick Bowe was taught a bit of boxing lesson IMO.

to Kyle.
apologies,ur right it was vitali and thats who i thought we were talking about as its generally accepted that he is the better of the siblings. And your right, he was marginally ahead but its not a 6 round fight, its a 12rounder. A finished Lewis gave him 60 stitches and stopped him, thats fact. just because he maybe won 3 outta 5 rounds dont mean diddly squat. if thats the case then marciano wouldnt have won a world title, Conn woulda beat louis etc etc.

Wlad would destroy all of them.

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Originally Posted by Slowmotion426

Wlad would destroy all of them.

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Course he would! And So would Corey Sanders and Lamont Brewster

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Wladimir is currently in his prime and yeah his loss to Sanders is a big issue to many folks but look his career was damn near over after the losses to Sanders and Brewster and he took on the toughest fighter in the division and beat the crap out of him and Sam Peter hasn't been the same since that loss.


Wlad has the ability to complete his game and be a great fighter but throwing him in with names like Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, and Mike Tyson is a bit premature at this point in time....Wlad is only 31 years old and you have to figure he's got 10 or so big time fights left in him at the pace of 2 a year...I want to see #1 How he does in those fights and #2 Who he fights before I try and say if he beats anyone on that list. It's top company to be mentioned with though but I think Wlad's lack of a rival really hurts him....Chris Byrd and Lamon Brewster are about the closest things he's had to rivals.

I figure Lennox Lewis is the toughest on the list but also the must vulnerable as sometimes he wasn't able to get up for fights....sometimes he won anyway like vs Bruno but sometimes he got hammered like vs Rahman.

Riddick Bowe is the most flawed fighter...he would give up on his defense and give up his height and reach at points during a fight which would be devistating vs any of these guys in their primes.

Tyson was the weakest mentally and we saw what Holyfield could do to him...I don't see him doing well vs any of these guys in his prime.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Bowe
4. Tyson
5. Wlad

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How can anybody have Holyfield above Bowe?? They already fought when they were at their absolute best (Bowe vs. Holyfield 1) and Bowe beat him.

Bowe vs. Holyfield 2 - Bowe came in fat and looked like crap. Holyfield edged out a close, controversial decision.

Bowe vs. Holyfield 3 - Anybody who saw this fight knows that this wasn't Holyfield at his best. Bowe wins by TKO.

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Because its who would have the most wins if they all fought. and holy and bowe split. And if they all fought twice Holy would probably finish second to lewis..

I see it like this..

Lewis(6-1) 2-0 against Wvlad,tyson, and bowe...with a loss to evander
holy (5-2) sweeping wvlad ,tyson with losses to lewis and bowe

The rest would probably all lose to each other plus to lewis and holy.

and I honestly think prime Wvlad with steward in his corner would beat tyson and bowe in one fight.

johnmaff, I hate to have to keep correcting you but #1 It's Lyle #2 I never said the stoppage wasn't the right thing to do and #3 The FACT that there was no rematch speaks volumes.