[quote=ICB;622269]At what point was Bute unable to defend himself is the real question though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
There was about 3 seconds left in the fight when Lucian Bute went down i think.Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyIncognito76
I actually had Mayorga winning that fight and was suprised when the judges had it to Mosley -the referee couldn't have known in any case (and yes, I know he wasn't getting up anyway :lickish:)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Been stewing on this at work earlier.They do have a standing 8 in Canada as well right??Would have been a perfect time with Bute prior to the KD.
One thing,The Bell was late as can be.Bute hit the deck with 1 or 2 seconds left in the round and No bell sounded what so ever,surley Bute's corner new the clock expired?It only rang once the Ref finished 8 count,wiped the gloves and turned to let it continue.......I believe it was Bute's corner man that worked the ref and pointed too Andrade near the corner.
I fully think the ref was biased,calling breaks after Andrade landed clean on a few occasions,B.S KD called on him and not calling the hugging by Bute but.......truth be told Imo And I have no interest at all in Bute and really like Andrade but Bute beat the count,all the ref had to do was ignore Andrade,toll an 8 count,and the fight was well over...no dispute ???
Fuck You Marlon B. Wright!!!
Fuck You Every Single Time You Breath...
I was watching the fight casually with no stake in either fighter. I actually had the sound off, but when I saw Buke get hurt I scrambled to the remote control. There is no doubt that Buke was out on his feet. I went back and watched it again and was amazed at the referee bias throughout the fight. This is either the worst referee ever or a referee that was bought and paid for! I can never root for Buke after this. I don't anticapate this problem when I watch UFC tonight. FIXED!
To be fair he stood in time, and there was 6 seconds left when he was knocked down, whether the ref had counted to 8 or not Andrade wouldn't have been able to seal the deal. I think it was bs job by Marlon, but that screw up the end didn't change anything, he should have stopped it sooner this could ruin Bute, but that knockdown didn't change anything in terms of finishing the fight. I also think they must have stopped the time when The ref went to scold Andrade or else it would have finished sooner.
Do they have a fawking shortage of ref's in Canada....Wright has worked 7 of Bute's last 10 fights ??
Fighter cannot be saved by the bell in the 12th and final round, that is the rule.
This is why if you watch the fight, even though the fight is over (on the clock), they don't ring the final bell until after the ref says wether or not Bute can continue. They were awaiting a verdict.
Bute was clearly out and the fight should have been stopped. So I won't only dispute the long count, but I'll dispute that the only reason the referee DIDN'T wave the fight as a KO for Andrade is because he knew there was no time left, and by saying Bute was able to continue, he'd win. It's bull shit
No doubt it had home town politics smeared all over it.Did not realize the last round specifics as per the clock though Ive seen in like situations the bells sound in error.But I'm not about to even pretend to defend that clearly Biased prick.Not sure about a rematch but have a fondness for the idea that he gets Bute on neutral ground should they meet and roll him.Bullshit indeed!Next time Andrade needs to get going earlier,relentless from his left side with Butes irratating right hand waving down at the knees like a broken clock hand.I think he walked through much heavier shots from Kes and can effect Bute much more when He catches him.Quote:
Originally Posted by intoccabile
Very sad...andrade clearly won the fight, even my youngest son asked why the ref wasn't counting. Ok so you want to rip andrade, at least save the guy from having to take unecessary punches as soon as the opening bell rang even before the dancin skanks can climb down off thier little stools count to 10 and call andrade out by KO. Save us all the time. If you're gonna cheat so blatantly own it ......say fuck andrade hand him his check and send him back on the plane. Insulting all of us with this WWE scripted type match was b.s. Instead of ronald (who did well by the way) holding friday night bible study during the ringwalk it would have been more fitting to have mayweather/big show 2 last night for the undercard, if nothing else to at least keep with the theme of the main event....ok i'm high ( yea yea no surprise i know) and the wife is on my ass for stoping by a hotel on the way home just to use thier free internet in lobby..so i'm grabbing some also free coffee and doughnuts and will see yall monday ! But i just has to comment on this garbage they called a fair fight last night.
If there were 30 or more seconds left after the ref letting it go on, bute would have been brain damaged and in a fucking coma.
Bute might have raised to his feet, but was unable to stand of his own accord for a good 5-6 seconds.
A ref would have waved it off at that point...
..instead the motha focker was too busy yelling at Andrade.
I disagree: ANDRADE WINS THE REMATCH NOT BUTE.
He got KTFO but the ref refused to count him out properly and he managed to get to his feet. He was out on his feet before it went down.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
If there had been more time left in the fight, would the ref have waved it off and stopped it? Even Steve Smoger would have stopped it with Bute looking like that when he finally went down. Example - Pavlik vs Taylor. He didn't even bother to count and it was the end of the round. Everybody calls that good stoppage. The fact that it's the 12th or the end of any round doesn't matter. Wright probably should have waved it off before Andrade hit him with his last shot. Bute could have gotten seriously hurt.
Agreed. The ref did a horrible job, but the long count by itself wasn't the difference in the fight. Bute was on his feet in less than 10 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
i know it's vague about a fighter that get's up after being knocked down but here is the ibf uniform championship rule as of september 2006.
10. A boxer who has been knocked down cannot be saved by the bell in any round.
Does that include a fighter who gets to his feet but obviously can't continue? He cannot be saved by the bell in any round therefore if he is not fit to fight after the 8 count then the fight should have been scored a tko.
Only if he wanted to board the next plane out of there and enter the witness protection program ;D.It can be confusing and hard to inforce.Ive seen the bell ring at the end of a final round with a fighter rising from KD and the ref not even finish count...just usher him over to waiting cornermen and wait for the cards to be read.Bottom line really,Wright was terrible earlier on,played favorites big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer
ibf Uniform Championship Rules - September 2006
rule #10. A boxer who has been knocked down cannot be saved by the bell in any round.
Therefore it doesn't matter if bute got up, what matters is could he continue, and by looking at him there is no way he could continue. He was out on his feet and he couldn't even stand without the help of the ropes. Therefore it should have been ruled a tko win for andrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Mick I agree with every word you typed Great post my friend.
Corrupt officials like this scum need to be kicked out of boxing
I think they should revisit how a ref is appointed.It really screams of favoritism for the home town fighter,Bute.Wright had worked Bute's last 5 fights in a row.....quite a bit of recent "Familiarity" between the two in that.
Bute should have been made to take multiple steps forward even with the round over, Ref clearly would have stopped the fight seeing Bute stumble or fall to him.Have to go dig up that Hilton/Quellette fight they talked about...same situation I believe??Hope Andrade gets his rematch now,start out fierce.
It wouldn't have made a difference even if the ref, wouldn't of told Andrade off about not being in the neutral corner. Thats irrelvant because the fight was over time wise, at that point it was only the ref's decision that mattered whether or not he felt the fight should be stopped. Not whether or not Andrade could stop Bute because he couldn't because the time was over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Bute pulled himself at the count of 8 up like a true champion, and all he had to do was stand up and he did. He won almost every single round and he deserved to win, i think the controversy is overrated IMO, i think it would of been more of an injustice if Andrade would of won.
The hyperbole in this thread is ridiculous.
IBF rules:
6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.
The more I think about it, regardless of the bias been shown through out the fight (which I agree was present), the ref did the right thing. No way the fight should've been stopped at the end. I do want to see a rematch asap though, on neutral territory.
but the fighter has to be able to continue, he cannot be saved by the bell even if being held up by the ropes. It's the ref's decision, i agree with that, I just don't agree that bute could have continued. The bell cannot save him in any round.
Pretty much stated as much on a prior page in this one,looking at it from other side.As much of an absolute shit job the ref did ...and he was shit & biased...Bute beat the count.I can not fathom ruling a fighter KO'd literally after time has expired,but it has happened!What is the ref deciding he or she can continue on with?? The fight is over,out of time.Ive seen fights in which the bell rings in final round after a fighter is floored,they have to beat the count.And some do not sound the bell in same situation.This fight has messed me up,badly.Their was a similar fight on FNF's a few months ago,final second KD on Kevin Burnett of last round,the bell sounded as time was over and he had to rise up...He was wobbly and KO'd where he stood but they awarded him a Dec. victory.He had no idea what his own name was.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBIt wouldn't have made a difference even if the ref, wouldn't of told Andrade off about not being in the neutral corner. Thats irrelvant because the fight was over time wise, at that point it was only the ref's decision that mattered whether or not he felt the fight should be stopped. Not whether or not Andrade could stop Bute because he couldn't because the time was over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Bute pulled himself at the count of 8 up like a true champion, and all he had to do was stand up and he did. He won almost every single round and he deserved to win, i think the controversy is overrated IMO, i think it would of been more of an injustice if Andrade would of won.
That being said the ref was terrible,not calling the hugging,ruling a BS knockdown on Andrade,standing in between them with exaggerated breaks,etc.Clear favoritism.Just make a rematch already...in the States...and make it 15 rounds :fight:.
The bell already rang right as the count began. Bute got up at around 6-7 regardless of the ref stopping to waste more time, ref shouldn't stop it if the guy got up and could put his hands up. Bute beat the count IMO. Barely hung in there. He definately needs to rematch Andrade because its not a convincing win due to the last round.
It seems a bit startling that Wright has reffed so many of Bute's fights recently but no different then Vann and Parriss reffing almost every single Hatton fight in England.
The count was BS, I haven't taken a timer to it but it's just stupid to do, it was very bizarre and I don't know who would have won but we at least deserved an honest count.
Looked to me like his shouting and pointing was a load of bullshit to make a name for himself.
im with you on this one MICK
FUCK YOU MARLON B WRIGHT !!
Bute did not know where he was, he was gone and in my book Andrade won clearly. He god robbed big time, but I rank Andrade over Bute now :) untill a rematch has taken place.
And in all fairness it is irrelevent that Bute was ahead on points since you cant win on point if you are knocked out :sheep:
Blimey!
Bute has had a right touch there. I would bet the MAJORITY of the worlds refs would have stopped that fight BEFORE the knockdown. Bute couldn't defend himself.
Unlucky Andrade.
No they wouldn't, he had only seconds to go in the fight. He beat the count, he got he to his feet and was saved by the bell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I don't believe many ref's would have stopped it given the circumstances and the fact that the fight was so clearly in the bag for Bute.
You cannot seriously tell me that Bute deserved to be stopped any more than Pavlik did against Taylor.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ARs8axyaDz0
Look at this video above Fenster. There were 3 SECONDS to go when Bute fell to the floor, so all he had to do was get up. Where in the preceeding seconds would you have stopped it if you were reffing. Watch the vid above and tell me where on the seconds you would have stopped it. Because I can't see anywhere to stop it at all.
Now watch the Pavlik knockdown by Jermain Taylor and tell me how he was in any less trouble than Bute, given the fact that it was only the second round and he had 10 rounds to survive rather than Bute who had about 5 seconds.
It would have been a complete travesty to have stopped the Bute fight imo.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=G0YCdjomoqQ
OK, maybe not the majority, but many refs would have stopped it inside the last 20 seconds. Bute barely has the strength to lift his arms, he can't even hold and his legs are totally gone.
The ref is supposed to be impartial. He isn't allowed to take the time of the round or the fact that one fighter has dominated into account. That would be showing favouritism and also be a danger to hurt fighters.
I guess Andrade is mainly unlucky with the time. Bute could clearly not continue (although he rightfully won according to the rules). He may well have fallen if asked to walk forward.
But being serious for a minute Fenster. Imagine if Bute had made the count, (which he did) and then the ref waved the fight off becuase he felt he couldn't continue even though there was no time left in the fight. It would be a travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I cannot understand how people can argue that under their strict interperations of the rules the ref should have stopped the fight at 0 seconds remaining becuase Bute looked done, but that the ref was wrong to strictly imply the rules of making Andrade stand in the neutral corner before he made that count.
Let's have some consistency here, people want an ultra strict no personal judgement application of one rule, whilst arguing for a more liberal, less harsh and more common sense application of another, makes no damn sense to be :)
Plus I disagree that Bute was in no condition to continue. Had there been another minute in the fight, as he made the 10 count I would have let him fight on, albiet he would almost certainly get ko'd seconds later unless he could tie up and wrestle Andrade to the floor but I've seen fighters more unsteady on their feet get up and be offered another chance by the ref that that.
Given the fact that he only had to stand up and beat the count to win, it would be completely farcical to have counted him out when he clearly beat the count imo.
I agree Bute won fairly (according to the rules). He beat the count, he got to his feet, which going by the rules means he finished the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboBut being serious for a minute Fenster. Imagine if Bute had made the count, (which he did) and then the ref waved the fight off becuase he felt he couldn't continue even though there was no time left in the fight. It would be a travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I cannot understand how people can argue that under their strict interperations of the rules the ref should have stopped the fight at 0 seconds remaining becuase Bute looked done, but that the ref was wrong to strictly imply the rules of making Andrade stand in the neutral corner before he made that count.
Let's have some consistency here, people want an ultra strict no personal judgement application of one rule, whilst arguing for a more liberal, less harsh and more common sense application of another, makes no damn sense to be :)
Plus I disagree that Bute was in no condition to continue. Had there been another minute in the fight, as he made the 10 count I would have let him fight on, albiet he would almost certainly get ko'd seconds later unless he could tie up and wrestle Andrade to the floor but I've seen fighters more unsteady on their feet get up and be offered another chance by the ref that that.
Given the fact that he only had to stand up and beat the count to win, it would be completely farcical to have counted him out when he clearly beat the count imo.
But I believe Bute was lucky because there's a case for the fight being stopped before the knockdown. I'm not saying that would have been the correct decision, just a possibility (and would have caused even bigger disagreements ;)).
There's NO WAY he was in a state to continue. He could barely get to his corner. ;)
Lucian Bute would win a rematch no doubt in my mind, he just made a mistake exchanging punches in the last round.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI agree Bute won fairly (according to the rules). He beat the count, he got to his feet, which going by the rules means he finished the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboBut being serious for a minute Fenster. Imagine if Bute had made the count, (which he did) and then the ref waved the fight off becuase he felt he couldn't continue even though there was no time left in the fight. It would be a travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I cannot understand how people can argue that under their strict interperations of the rules the ref should have stopped the fight at 0 seconds remaining becuase Bute looked done, but that the ref was wrong to strictly imply the rules of making Andrade stand in the neutral corner before he made that count.
Let's have some consistency here, people want an ultra strict no personal judgement application of one rule, whilst arguing for a more liberal, less harsh and more common sense application of another, makes no damn sense to be :)
Plus I disagree that Bute was in no condition to continue. Had there been another minute in the fight, as he made the 10 count I would have let him fight on, albiet he would almost certainly get ko'd seconds later unless he could tie up and wrestle Andrade to the floor but I've seen fighters more unsteady on their feet get up and be offered another chance by the ref that that.
Given the fact that he only had to stand up and beat the count to win, it would be completely farcical to have counted him out when he clearly beat the count imo.
But I believe Bute was lucky because there's a case for the fight being stopped before the knockdown. I'm not saying that would have been the correct decision, just a possibility (and would have caused even bigger disagreements ;)).
There's NO WAY he was in a state to continue. He could barely get to his corner. ;)
Two things...
You will NEVER see Bute fight in a location where they can't make everything perfect for his victory (i.e ref, crowd and everything in his favor).
If he DARES to challenge any other champion or top 10 boxer, he will lose by KO.
That's all I have to say, because it is now obvious why this guy fought 75% of his fights in one place.
What an embarrassment. As Farhood said on the broadcast, "This was an amateurish move during a professional championship fight."
Oh yeah, and Bute held more than John Ruiz
You sure got the right name... BOOOTAY.
Well just saw it for the first time. I don't think it should have been stopped before the knockdown at the very end but obviously the count looked BS.
I actually was expecting worse to be honest because of all the talk about it but it obviously was some home cooking.
If anything Wright was too late to stop the Berrio fight. Bute was "out on his feet" but Berrio was pretty much unconscious.
That's what I was thinking too. I didn't see the fight so I don't know how bad Wright was besides that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
Sone of you guys are fucken ridiculous...
If you can't see that the ref. clearly "helped" Bute throughout the whole fight then you fucken blind and or just don't cope things.
I'll counter the arguements with something simple.
Would it have been Andrade who was on queer street, falling allover the place and being held up by the ropes and taking that HUGE shot like that from Bute the fight would have been waived off and if you can't agree with that then. FUCK YOU TOO.