Yeah sorry dude,i explained above, :p selective reading on my behalf.
Going to have to up my fish oil intake by the looks of it :rolleyes:.
Anyway im going to have to rewatch the fight again, hope I got the after fight interviews too.
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Yeah sorry dude,i explained above, :p selective reading on my behalf.
Going to have to up my fish oil intake by the looks of it :rolleyes:.
Anyway im going to have to rewatch the fight again, hope I got the after fight interviews too.
Good point KingFrnk. A big name that is not in his prime. If Margarito hurts Mosley or even Kos/TKOs him then that can be intimidating. Like saying "I did what you couldn't do" kind of thing. Nobody is loosing/gaining weight drastically or anything. Can't wait to see this fight.Quote:
well Margarito is fighting the same guy that cotto beat
Yes, the second time he didn't wait as long as the first time he asked. He even got close to Taylor's face to maybe try to find a reaction that showed he could still do it but no, no answer, nothing. I am guessing it all has to do with the fact that there were a few seconds left not for the round but for the entire fight that may be controversial. If this was, say, round 6 when the fight got stopped then I can imagine nobody would argue the stoppage.Quote:
Actually it was a bit longer than a second, more like a second and a half. Two seconds tops. During this time yeah Steele asked him twice, and the after the 2nd time, he didn't even give Taylor time to respond.
It happened too fast. But Steele did things like that.
Lou Duva who also trained Pernel Whitaker, Evander Holyfield, among others.Quote:
On top of that his dumb ass trainer or promoter (cant remember which) jumped up on the canvas and totally ddisctracted Taylor I think it made enough of a difference
Didn't wait as long? When you consider the lag between making up your mind and your arm musles reacting to wave it off, I'd say he didn't wait at all. And if you are not going to wait, then why ask in the first place? Sure the fact that there was two seconds left has a has a lot to do with the notoriety of the call. Taylor was so close. Was Taylor finished beyond doubt? Hard to say. I still say Steele blew the call, but such is controversy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
SO staying on the Taylor V Chavez topic and going back to my original Margo V Cotto topic, I wanted to bring this clip in I found on youtube, documenting the Chavez V Taylor fight, but I also wanty to point out the first two minutes of that documentary where they are talking about how that fight extinguished Taylor's prime, that's what I'm thining when I ask the question regarding Cotto was his fight with Margo that fight for him, the prmie extinguishing fight?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFQ2oJ3asaM
You know what I like about you Chino? How original all your posts are. You don't limit yourself to one topic or say the same things over and over again like a some posters; you've got a lot to say, and you present it in as unbiased a way a possible, backing up all your assertions with solid facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Good job :thumb:
Agreed. If you said to me who's the worst poster on this board you know who I'm sure I wouldn't pick, Chino.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHYou know what I like about you Chino? How original all your posts are. You don't limit yourself to one topic or say the same things over and over again like a some posters; you've got a lot to say, and you present it in as unbiased a way a possible, backing up all your assertions with solid facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Good job :thumb:
Nor would I. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but it is an absolute travesty that you are a MOD while Chino's posting achievements go unrecognized. I think it's only proper that you give up your modship and bestow it upon Chino. It will be to the benefit of all mankind.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanAgreed. If you said to me who's the worst poster on this board you know who I'm sure I wouldn't pick, Chino.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHYou know what I like about you Chino? How original all your posts are. You don't limit yourself to one topic or say the same things over and over again like a some posters; you've got a lot to say, and you present it in as unbiased a way a possible, backing up all your assertions with solid facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Good job :thumb:
You guys are making me blush :rolleyes:
Thank you CHF. Some things have to be repeated as much as the same topics keep coming back over and over. All it takes is a look at Cotto's resume and see how many big names in their primes did he fight. Many Cotto fans got totally excited about his victory against Gomez, go figure. I wouldn't be surprised if many Cotto fans think beating Jennings would be a great accomplishment. He is comparable to other guys he have faced really.
I'm confused. How does this post relate to Cotto's level of opposition or Oscar Dela Hoya?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Edit: Oh, I see you've edited your post. It's all clear now.
You are as anti-Cotto as I am anti-Oscar... maybe more. "Many Cotto fans got totally excited about his victory against Gomez"?!? Seriously, where do you GET this sh*t? Do you just make it up as you go along? And your next statement about Jennings is just as ludicrous. Where do you get off making these broad statements as if they were facts? I for one have never claimed Cotto walks on water, as you do with Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Oh, and claiming Cotto never fought any worthy opponents is not knowing very much about boxing. I'm sorry, but your act wears very thin with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanYou are as anti-Cotto as I am anti-Oscar... maybe more. "Many Cotto fans got totally excited about his victory against Gomez"?!? Seriously, where do you GET this sh*t? Do you just make it up as you go along? And your next statement about Jennings is just as ludicrous. Where do you get off making these broad statements as if they were facts? I for one have never claimed Cotto walks on water, as you do with Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Oh, and claiming Cotto never fought any worthy opponents is not knowing very much about boxing. I'm sorry, but your act wears very thin with me.
That last part would have been a good place for you to insert names of boxers that you think would be noteworthy to back up your claim
Dude, do your own research. I don't feel the need to defend Cotto's opponents coming up, because you and Chino will only find faults with all of them. But the bottom line is: Cotto has never ducked anyone, has always fought whomever they put in front of him, has always shown a way to adapt his style to suit his opponent (until Margarito, that is), and has proven to be a worthy champion and elite fighter. He talks with his fists, not his mouth. AND... he took on probably the most ducked fighter in the game today. There's a reason why a fighter that was virtually ignored or underestimated during the first part of his career is now one of boxing's more popular fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanYou are as anti-Cotto as I am anti-Oscar... maybe more. "Many Cotto fans got totally excited about his victory against Gomez"?!? Seriously, where do you GET this sh*t? Do you just make it up as you go along? And your next statement about Jennings is just as ludicrous. Where do you get off making these broad statements as if they were facts? I for one have never claimed Cotto walks on water, as you do with Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Oh, and claiming Cotto never fought any worthy opponents is not knowing very much about boxing. I'm sorry, but your act wears very thin with me.
That last part would have been a good place for you to insert names of boxers that you think would be noteworthy to back up your claim
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanYou are as anti-Cotto as I am anti-Oscar... maybe more. "Many Cotto fans got totally excited about his victory against Gomez"?!? Seriously, where do you GET this sh*t? Do you just make it up as you go along? And your next statement about Jennings is just as ludicrous. Where do you get off making these broad statements as if they were facts? I for one have never claimed Cotto walks on water, as you do with Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Oh, and claiming Cotto never fought any worthy opponents is not knowing very much about boxing. I'm sorry, but your act wears very thin with me.
I wasnt taking sides I was just trying to help you get your point across with some back up. I can think oif a few but it was your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanDude, do your own research. I don't feel the need to defend Cotto's opponents coming up, because you and Chino will only find faults with all of them. But the bottom line is: Cotto has never ducked anyone, has always fought whomever they put in front of him, has always shown a way to adapt his style to suit his opponent (until Margarito, that is), and has proven to be a worthy champion and elite fighter. He talks with his fists, not his mouth. AND... he took on probably the most ducked fighter in the game today. There's a reason why a fighter that was virtually ignored or underestimated during the first part of his career is now one of boxing's more popular fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
That last part would have been a good place for you to insert names of boxers that you think would be noteworthy to back up your claim
ok...Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanYou are as anti-Cotto as I am anti-Oscar... maybe more. "Many Cotto fans got totally excited about his victory against Gomez"?!? Seriously, where do you GET this sh*t? Do you just make it up as you go along? And your next statement about Jennings is just as ludicrous. Where do you get off making these broad statements as if they were facts? I for one have never claimed Cotto walks on water, as you do with Oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Oh, and claiming Cotto never fought any worthy opponents is not knowing very much about boxing. I'm sorry, but your act wears very thin with me.
I wasnt taking sides I was just trying to help you get your point across with some back up. I can think oif a few but it was your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanDude, do your own research. I don't feel the need to defend Cotto's opponents coming up, because you and Chino will only find faults with all of them. But the bottom line is: Cotto has never ducked anyone, has always fought whomever they put in front of him, has always shown a way to adapt his style to suit his opponent (until Margarito, that is), and has proven to be a worthy champion and elite fighter. He talks with his fists, not his mouth. AND... he took on probably the most ducked fighter in the game today. There's a reason why a fighter that was virtually ignored or underestimated during the first part of his career is now one of boxing's more popular fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
But listen, this is where I tend to get on my soap box. It's always been the popular argument among anti-Cotto fans that he's never fought anybody of merit. I find that totally baseless and ludicrous. I know names like John Brown, Cesar Bazan, Abdullaev, and Rocky Martinez don't hold much water with the average fan... but all have been tough and worthy opponents. Brown, as was Abdullaev, was considered a troublesome opponent that other fighters tended to avoid. I watched a lot of these early fights. There were no gimmies.
Matter of fact, Cotto was fighting boxers with good, winning records as early as his 6th pro fight. Compare this to a legend like Julio Cesar Chavez, and you'll see the disparity right there. Look down the list of Cotto's opponents after his first 8 or so fights. You won't find a soft touch among them, with the exception of Alfonzo Gomez (who Chino ridiculously says us Cotto fans got excited over), and maybe Carlos Maussa, who has never impressed me much.
I'm willing to go opponent-by-opponent with the Cotto haters and discuss their merits or lack thereof. But what would that resolve? Not a damn thing. The haters will continue being haters... right, Chino?
;)
On a different note: You know if youre not doing anything with your cash you can triple your money if you buy one of those old timber encased bridges from down south and resell the antique timber into the furniture trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Here we go again TitoFan. Nope, its not like that. See, I root for Oscar but I don't blind myself from the things he should improve or whatever. Lots of Cotto and Pac fans make a tear drama when someone dares themselves to mention something negative.Quote:
You are as anti-Cotto as I am anti-Oscar... maybe more.
Go back to the threads that praise Cotto's "outstanding, great, awesome, etc." victory over Gomez.Quote:
"Many Cotto fans got totally excited about his victory against Gomez"?!? Seriously, where do you GET this sh*t? Do you just make it up as you go along?
Then you have not read everything I have said about Oscar. I have even acknowledged how his plan totally backfired, how he didn't look good against Forbes and how getting hurt by Forbes ment he would get hurt easily vs Pac, etc. I am yet to see you dare yourself say something negative about Cotto. But if you can't think of something, I'll help you out .Quote:
I for one have never claimed Cotto walks on water, as you do with Oscar
Tell me something, is Michael Jennings a REAL THREAT to Cotto? Come ooooon. Look at Jenning's resume and tell me if he has an admirable resume. The last couple of guys he fought have no KO power and come from KO losses to face him, still, they took Jennings to a decision. Now he's stepping up to face Cotto, good luck Jennings! I wouldn't be surprised if you and other Cotto fans got as excited as when Cotto beat Gomez but I wouldn't be surprised as well if Jennings cut, rocked, and hurt Cotto just like other journeymen have already. Have you seen all or at least MOST of Cotto's fights? If not, I recommend you to see them so you can understand why I say he has been rocked, cut, exposed, hurt, almost had a fight stopped, etc. By bunch of journeymen or has-beens. Now answer this, was Mosley and Judah on their primes when they faced Cotto? Besides two fighters passed their primes tell me who has Cotto faced that we can go "Oh wow!" and we'll talk about their resumes.Quote:
Oh, and claiming Cotto never fought any worthy opponents is not knowing very much about boxing. I'm sorry, but your act wears very thin with me
Cotto's resume can't really be compared to Mayweather, Oscar De La Hoya, etc. Do you agree?
Quote:
On a different note: You know if youre not doing anything with your cash you can triple your money if you buy one of those old timber encased bridges from down south and resell the antique timber into the furniture trade
As long as these topics keep coming back over and over you'll probably find me in there repeating the same thing. Go tell that to the people that start these threads. I am going to save it somewhere and just paste it whenever the same topics come back .
As for the thread, what is your opinion?
Ok you asked.
Originally i took the thread at face value and thought it is worthy of discussion as to if it has had lasting effects on Miguel that he may mentally have trouble getting over in a rematch.
Now I think the thread has turned into a platform for people who tie their ego to their choosen fighter to launch it into the forum at others who just hold a different point of view or like a different fighter.
I also knew exactly what CFH was impling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
ya the thread did go into a different direction didnt it, bu its all boxing so Im entertained. Im actually amazed at the in-depth knowledge that some of the posters have even if its just on one fighter.
No reflection on you bro, Your thread has been great and all in fair play;I'm being harsh here I know sorry.Its a run over from another thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre
ya the thread did go into a different direction didnt it, bu its all boxing so Im entertained. Im actually amazed at the in-depth knowledge that some of the posters have even if its just on one fighter.
But some other threads lately have been destroyed by posters just trying to tear down other posters for the sake of looking correct themselves.We all got different points of view,we should; as you say enjoy them, even argue over them and thats great.
There is really no need for the "you know nothing" style of comments and latley worse gets posted.
It just puts off new guys who are sitting back reading for the first time, from ever posting in here because they think whatever their opinion they will will be shot down by someone who just wants only their own opinion to rule at everyone elses expense.
You see it in here all the time and its great when people stake their flag into the hill and if it stands up to the tests that are thrown at it,cause they have a different point of view thats great too, then they are respected by most in here anyway right or wrong because they went about it correctly.
Some of late in other threads have come in and and tried to nail their flag directly into the top of someone elses head instead :D, (they come in aiming) with personal attacks with degrading comments etc which is not the way to make friends. Anyway theres another forum that breeds that style of posting.
Truthfully, I'm getting tired of debating the same sh*t with you over and over again. So from now on, let's just agree to disagree. Capiche?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
Time will tell how the Margorito loss has affected his mental state. We will know a bit more in a few month's. I personally would like to see the kid comeback strong. I would reccomend he come down to 140 and stay there. There is a ton of money south of 147
I think there is no chance he would ever try and get back to 140, he moved up because he struggled making the weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Steemer
I dont think Cotto has a stamina problem at all. He was swinginging the whole fight landing flush shots. Its just that he doesnt have the best chin in the world, you cant change that. He also should have changed up his game plan once he realized he wasnt hurting Margarito. Other than that he fought an awsome fight! FOY!
You're 100% correct. Cotto will never go back down to 140. He was killing himself making the weight. Welterweight is his weight. And as much money as there may be south of 147, there's probably even more at 147.Quote:
Originally Posted by KelI think there is no chance he would ever try and get back to 140, he moved up because he struggled making the weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Steemer
Here we go again. Cotto is NO welterweight. Never was. Half the guys in the division are small and should practice their trade at the lower weights. Cotto is nothing more than a Big Light Weight that should be able to dominate most of the guys at 140 and make a fortune doing so. Let the little guys come up to him i.e. Marvin Hagler and Bernard Hopkins. However, we still need to see if the Margarito beating left him "damaged"
The problem is Cotto is not a very big welter but he couldn't really make 140, seeing him at some of the weighins, especially later on like the Malignaggi one he was as gaunt and sickly looking as anybody I've ever seen.
I wouldn't say he's a small welter though, but he's not a big one by any means.
Ok this is one of those topics where you just have to shake your head at what you're reading. Ok so you know better than Cotto himself what weight he feels more comfortable in? Small or not, if Cotto can't make the weight comfortably at 140 and feels drained (according to none other than Cotto himself)... who are we to say he belongs at 140? Help me out here, for I do not understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Steemer
:dontknow:
i think if theres anything that can be said about miguel cotto, its that hes obviously got a very strong character. the loss he suffered against margarito would have finished alot of fighters am sure, but i doubt it will cotto. i see him dusting himself off and getting straight back to business in 2009. the guys a warrior.
I think people are getting a little carried away in saying Cotto will never be the same...he didnt take a Lacy/Cal, Pavlik/Hop, or Citron/Marg style beating (or even Hatton/Mayweather)...he was competitive in the first part of the fight.......Margarito just wore him down....
I think he is going to be fine....In the rematch I think he will be more competitive down the stretch with Tony but will still lose a decision....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavlikfan
How do we know that he has a strong "character"?
I dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by pavlikfan
How do we know that he has a strong "character"?
Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.
Does any of this help?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
well if you are referring to the actual thread, my statement/question was Cotto may never be the same. Secondly, it's hard for us as fans to know what kind of losses are tougher on fighters. Are the blowouts worse? the close ones? or the ones that got away? There's an argument for all of them really. A blowout may not be as bad, because all you tell yourself is he or his style is better, ill stay away from him or his style. The close ones may not be as bad because you think to yourself I can get him next time. I just have to work on stamina or maybe a better jab, etc.
A lose like Cotto's to Margo is kinda the one that got away, cuz he had it and it got away and while you can also make an excuse or give yourself a reason why you lost and why its ok, it can be just as devasting to your mental make up as any other loss. Like i've said before that "death jog" of Tony's can really be an intimidating thing.
I wont take a thing from the opposition that Cotto has faced, he has faced very competitive opposition, but I would say the higher caliber of his opponents were at 140, now he moves to 147 and they have all been alittle past their prime or not as top notch. This loss to Margo may make him doubt his ability to compete against the top notch fighters at 147. So yes Cotto may never be the same.
LOL... "death jog"... that's a pretty good way of putting it. And when you add Margo's evil smile while he's doing his "death jog", it must be even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
well if you are referring to the actual thread, my statement/question was Cotto may never be the same. Secondly, it's hard for us as fans to know what kind of losses are tougher on fighters. Are the blowouts worse? the close ones? or the ones that got away? There's an argument for all of them really. A blowout may not be as bad, because all you tell yourself is he or his style is better, ill stay away from him or his style. The close ones may not be as bad because you think to yourself I can get him next time. I just have to work on stamina or maybe a better jab, etc.
A lose like Cotto's to Margo is kinda the one that got away, cuz he had it and it got away and while you can also make an excuse or give yourself a reason why you lost and why its ok, it can be just as devasting to your mental make up as any other loss. Like i've said before that "death jog" of Tony's can really be an intimidating thing.
I wont take a thing from the opposition that Cotto has faced, he has faced very competitive opposition, but I would say the higher caliber of his opponents were at 140, now he moves to 147 and they have all been alittle past their prime or not as top notch. This loss to Margo may make him doubt his ability to compete against the top notch fighters at 147. So yes Cotto may never be the same.
Regarding the main point, I think it's always tough for a previously unbeaten fighter, who has begun to think of himself as invincible, to suffer his first loss. And in this case, Cotto boxed a beautiful first half of the fight, only to see Tony shrug off his best shots and stalk him down. It HAS to be tough mentally. But if any fighter has the mental makeup to deal with that and go on, it's Cotto. That's what I'm betting on, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanI dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by pavlikfan
How do we know that he has a strong "character"?
Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.
Does any of this help?
Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.
What are you talking about ? Miguel Cotto was weight drained at Jr Welterweight, he was weaker and was getting rocked by fighters who aren't known as big punchers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Steemer
As soon as he moved up he looked physically stronger, and his punch resistance was much better. He lost to Antonio Margarito because Antonio Margarito put too much pressure on, and never allowed Miguel Cotto to get a break.
It's nothing to do with Miguel Cotto being a small Welterweight, i can safely say for 100 percent had any other Welterweight in the world today, took the punches Antonio Margarito did. They wouldn't of been standing.
Its just Antonio Margarito has an unbelievable chin, unbelievable stamina, and unbelievable determination. All the 3 things above were too much for Miguel Cotto. And in the end it was nothing to do with Miguel Cotto's chin.
It was due to Antonio Margarito slowly but surely giving him a throughout beating, hitting him on the arms, shoulders, chest, everywhere. Making him always feeling uncomfortable and making Miguel Cotto.
Waste alot of energy constantly moving, normally when Miguel Cotto is boxing he can stop and get a rest. But Antonio Margarito jumped right on Miguel Cotto when he looked to get a break, plus Miguel Cotto had a broken nose which effected his breathing.
All the things above yet again Miguel Cotto had not dealt with before, hopefully he can comeback and learn from his mistakes. Like other great champions have done before.
(patient sigh of exasperation)...No Onix, I DIDN'T describe every fighter who is competitive in the sport. Geeez, you and Chino can wear a guy out with your non-sensical anti-Cotto rantings. Lots of competitive fighters out there: 1) blatantly duck opponents, for whatever reason (ie: Oscar and Margarito), and 2) make all kinds of excuses when they're beaten. So you see... you're wrong right off the bat.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanI dunno... depends how you define "character" in boxing. If you define it as someone who is dedicated to the ring and sport and always gives his all in the ring... if you define it as someone who does not need to trash-talk anyone, but rather let's his fists do the talking... if you define it as someone who takes on all opponents they put in front of him... if you define it as someone who refuses to make excuses when he is beaten... if you define it as someone who comports himself with class in and out of the ring...Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
Then yes... IMO, Cotto would qualify as having a strong character.
Does any of this help?
Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.
As for Cotto getting "found out"... found out about what?!?!? That he's been a bum all along?!? Get a grip, for chrissakes.
You know, for not wanting to be a "dick"... you're walking a very fine line.
;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan(patient sigh of exasperation)...No Onix, I DIDN'T describe every fighter who is competitive in the sport. Geeez, you and Chino can wear a guy out with your non-sensical anti-Cotto rantings. Lots of competitive fighters out there: 1) blatantly duck opponents, for whatever reason (ie: Oscar and Margarito), and 2) make all kinds of excuses when they're beaten. So you see... you're wrong right off the bat.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Ok you just described every fighter that is competitive in the sport, except for the trash talk part, so if they all have character what makes Cotto so special? and why can he bounce back from this one and Jeff Lacy not bounce back from from his loss to JC? Maybe its not that Lacy couldnt bounce back maybe it was like some other posters have said in the past about him, maybe he got "found out"...maybe Cotto got "found out" I'm not saying that specifically but the argument could be made for it.
As for Cotto getting "found out"... found out about what?!?!? That he's been a bum all along?!? Get a grip, for chrissakes.
You know, for not wanting to be a "dick"... you're walking a very fine line.
;)
Haha, walking a fine line? why cuz I am not agreeing with you? I never said I didnt like Cotto I am very much pro Cotto, I'm simply making a point as are you and I'm not calling you a dick for it.
Maybe I jumped the gun in saying that every fighter has character, ok maybe not, but alot of fighters have the traits that you described about Cotto so why is Cotto so special?
What I said in regards to him being found out is more of a statement as to why people say Lacy's loss to JC was so devasting, maybe it was just that he cant compete at that level not that he had such a terrible loss, so why cant the same be said about Cotto?
I think my replies regarding this topic have been very "sensical" if you dont want to be tested and questioned about your replies then maybe you should not post them up.
You call them "anti-cotto" rantings, then what are yours pro-cotto rantings? The differance here is one major point, lets just say im pro-Margo and you are pro-cotto, I can see Margo's weaknesses and acknowledge his losses without excuse. You dont argue the loss but you will not accept that maybe he is not fighter everyone thought he could/should be. The Margo fight was supposed to be Cotto's huge coming out party, I think even Arum was like shit I just fucked my boy up on this one. I dont doubt his pedigree, Cotto is a great fighter, but leave your mind open to the fact that maybe he's not at the level of you want him to be, as Im open to the fact that he may come back and beat Margo on the rematch.
[quote=OnixAA;661791]Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan(patient sigh of exasperation)...No Onix, I DIDN'T describe every fighter who is competitive in the sport. Geeez, you and Chino can wear a guy out with your non-sensical anti-Cotto rantings. Lots of competitive fighters out there: 1) blatantly duck opponents, for whatever reason (ie: Oscar and Margarito), and 2) make all kinds of excuses when they're beaten. So you see... you're wrong right off the bat.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAA
As for Cotto getting "found out"... found out about what?!?!? That he's been a bum all along?!? Get a grip, for chrissakes.
You know, for not wanting to be a "dick"... you're walking a very fine line.
;)
Haha, walking a fine line? why cuz I am not agreeing with you? I never said I didnt like Cotto I am very much pro Cotto, I'm simply making a point as are you and I'm not calling you a dick for it. (Ok, you're right). :)
Maybe I jumped the gun in saying that every fighter has character, ok maybe not, but alot of fighters have the traits that you described about Cotto so why is Cotto so special? (A poster said Cotto had a strong character. You refuted that. I came back to tell you why I think Cotto has character. Nothing in there says I said Cotto is "special". Don't put words in my mouth).
What I said in regards to him being found out is more of a statement as to why people say Lacy's loss to JC was so devasting, maybe it was just that he cant compete at that level not that he had such a terrible loss, so why cant the same be said about Cotto? (That he can't compete at that level? Because of the one loss? I think we're jumping the gun on this one, don't you?)
I think my replies regarding this topic have been very "sensical" if you dont want to be tested and questioned about your replies then maybe you should not post them up. (What makes you the "tester and questioner" and me the "questionee"? You state your views, I state mine. I'm not here to convince you about anything).
You call them "anti-cotto" rantings, then what are yours pro-cotto rantings? The differance here is one major point, lets just say im pro-Margo and you are pro-cotto, I can see Margo's weaknesses and acknowledge his losses without excuse. You dont argue the loss(I'm glad you at least see that much). but you will not accept that maybe he is not fighter everyone thought he could/should be. The Margo fight was supposed to be Cotto's huge coming out party, I think even Arum was like shit I just fucked my boy up on this one. I dont doubt his pedigree, Cotto is a great fighter, but leave your mind open to the fact that maybe he's not at the level of you want him to be, as Im open to the fact that he may come back and beat Margo on the rematch.(Ironically, I'm not even that sure that Cotto could beat Margarito in a rematch. Sometimes it's a matter of style, and Cotto did everything humanly possible to try to beat Margarito but came up short. He'd need a major strategy change to pull off a victory in a rematch).[/quote]
See my comments above.
After the Fight Cottos walk back to the dressing room spoke volumes as did his posture.
[quote=TitoFan;661796]First of all I'll say this, you're a great poster and I've enjoyed the debate this far.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnixAAQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Haha, walking a fine line? why cuz I am not agreeing with you? I never said I didnt like Cotto I am very much pro Cotto, I'm simply making a point as are you and I'm not calling you a dick for it. (Ok, you're right). :)
Maybe I jumped the gun in saying that every fighter has character, ok maybe not, but alot of fighters have the traits that you described about Cotto so why is Cotto so special? (A poster said Cotto had a strong character. You refuted that. I came back to tell you why I think Cotto has character. Nothing in there says I said Cotto is "special". Don't put words in my mouth).
What I said in regards to him being found out is more of a statement as to why people say Lacy's loss to JC was so devasting, maybe it was just that he cant compete at that level not that he had such a terrible loss, so why cant the same be said about Cotto? (That he can't compete at that level? Because of the one loss? I think we're jumping the gun on this one, don't you?)
I think my replies regarding this topic have been very "sensical" if you dont want to be tested and questioned about your replies then maybe you should not post them up. (What makes you the "tester and questioner" and me the "questionee"? You state your views, I state mine. I'm not here to convince you about anything).
You call them "anti-cotto" rantings, then what are yours pro-cotto rantings? The differance here is one major point, lets just say im pro-Margo and you are pro-cotto, I can see Margo's weaknesses and acknowledge his losses without excuse. You dont argue the loss(I'm glad you at least see that much). but you will not accept that maybe he is not fighter everyone thought he could/should be. The Margo fight was supposed to be Cotto's huge coming out party, I think even Arum was like shit I just fucked my boy up on this one. I dont doubt his pedigree, Cotto is a great fighter, but leave your mind open to the fact that maybe he's not at the level of you want him to be, as Im open to the fact that he may come back and beat Margo on the rematch.(Ironically, I'm not even that sure that Cotto could beat Margarito in a rematch. Sometimes it's a matter of style, and Cotto did everything humanly possible to try to beat Margarito but came up short. He'd need a major strategy change to pull off a victory in a rematch).[/quote]
See my comments above.
Not too much else to say about the other points except for one, to me If I am proving a point or making a statement, it's because I want to convince you of my point of view, I test and question your points of view because I want to convince you of mine, you can and have tested and questioned mine as well as you should, to prove your points.