Hamed/Marquez

Regardless of who ducked who.

I can say it with ease that JMM would have boxed circles around Naz then and now. With Ingle or without Ingle, with allah or without allah.

JMM today clearly stands head and shoulders above Naz as far as greatness.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

Juan Manuel Márquez - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Marquez turned down Hamed (fact) it was first reported that he wasn't offered enough money but in an interview (later) he said he wasn't given enough time to prepare. So how can he be waiting two years to get this fight and then say its not enough time or money and then turn around and fight Jiminez for less. Would you say that's ducking a fight or not?

"Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory." (cluck.. cluck..)

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics.

"They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

Pacquiao put about $30,000 in his pocket the first time he met MAB.

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Anyone can type in Wikipedia all that stuff is often moved/changed. I contribute to the boxing section and also to the one on BoxRec.

I've often had things that I typed altered and changed so not everything you read on there is the 100% true. Remember these things are put together by everyday people...

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

Remember, Marquez was the odd man out for a long time. Morales and Barrera were the bigger names and bigger draws. I'm not sure about this, but I'm guessing the loss to Freddie Norwood took JMM out of the Naz sweepstakes. There is a better case that Naz should have fought Morales. That would have been a bigger draw and by the time Naz fought Barrera, Morales had wins over Zaragoza, Junior Jones, Chacon, McCullough, Kelly, Chi, and Barrera. He also had the WBC belt at FW and Barrera was just coming up from 122. In 2000-2001, Morales would have been the biggest fight out there for him, but he fought Barrera instead. If Naz ducked anybody, he ducked Morales.

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exaclty!

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

About Hamed, he was screwd no matter who he fought, mab,eric or jmm. They would of all owned him.

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WTF, how does JMM supposedlyy ducking pac come into this ??

It's probably that none ducked the other. Thats what boxers managers do! It's very rare you will find a boxer who is frightened of fighting anyone or wants to duck anyone. Tyson, Liston and prime Foreman to me were the main fighters who other fighters were genuinely frightened of fighting. All boxers will have nerves before a fight but not genuine fear like they all brought to the game.

As for the outcome though I think Marquez kicks Hamed's ass. As would Morales and as Barrera did. Don't think I even need to mention Pac!

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Originally Posted by rene69

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by rene69

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

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Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right? ;)

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Sorry, didn't go back to read THE BOXING ALMANAC. Bottom line is that Hamed ducked Marquez plain and simple. And the only reason he(Hamed) fought Barrera who was a weight division lower...was because Barrera looked to be on the down side after the Morales fight and looked beatable. It's amazing how Hamed was psychologically
destroyed and ruined after just one fight. Marquez would have probably stopped him if they had fought.

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Right. And the OTHER bottom line is that Marquez TURNED DOWN the chance to fight Naz in 2000.

Marquez admits it. Beristain admits it.

So what we have is - Naz ducked a fighter that REFUSED to fight him :beat:

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Originally Posted by Missy

Old ground.

Barrera had a four fight deal with Warren when he was at 122, that's it. Maybe they (Barrera) thought it would move them closer to a fight with Hamed.

I think the Hamed camp thought Barrera would come to brawl like he did with Morales. Manny Steward joked they picked the wrong fighter when Barrera fought Jesus Salud.

Back to the topic :D JMM. At the time - JMM who?

Rain. JMM didn't duck Paq:rolleyes: He and many others thought he had won, why shouldn't he get a better pay deal?

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Originally Posted by Chino

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If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

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If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

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you guys are right, i used the word duck too losely and it is disrespectful to a great fighter like jmm.

the first fight could of gone either way and jmm does deserve to get a better deal. but at the time jmm was not as popular and it was a step backwards to go to asia and fight a unknown fighter worldwide, for a mere 30k. Pac was only making a few thousands fighting ledwaba,sanchez and only 30k to fight marco. JMM didn't duck pac but he made a bad decision taking chris johns offer because whatever pacs camp offer was still better.

Chino - Right now pac isn't fighting a chris john for 30k, his fighting a fighter that is one of the if not the most popular fighter worldwide, hatton for millions of dollars. Hatton is a bigger draw then JMM, Pac will make more fighting Hatton and legacy wise as well. JMM is the Greater fighter then Hatton but a win over Hatton is a lot better then a win over JMM right now. Because Pac has already won over JMM and another win would be great but a win over Hatton at 140 is ever GREATER.

Hamed ducked JMM , plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Hamed ducked JMM , plain and simple.

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Until he offered him the fight and Marquez said NO!!! Plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Hamed ducked JMM , plain and simple.

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Until he offered him the fight and Marquez said NO!!! Plain and simple.

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I have spoken to Hamed on this point , and he clearly told me he ducked JMM and would never fight him.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Hamed ducked JMM , plain and simple.

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Until he offered him the fight and Marquez said NO!!! Plain and simple.

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I have spoken to Hamed on this point , and he clearly told me he ducked JMM and would never fight him.:cool:

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I have spoken to Marquez, he clearly told me he didn't feel ready for the "rocket launchers"

Whoomp there it is!!!

:cool:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Until he offered him the fight and Marquez said NO!!! Plain and simple.

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I have spoken to Hamed on this point , and he clearly told me he ducked JMM and would never fight him.:cool:

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I have spoken to Marquez, he clearly told me he didn't feel ready for the "rocket launchers"

Whoomp there it is!!!

:cool:

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You know thats exactly what Marquez told me . So they inadvertently ducked each other WOW !!!:cool:

Only just seen this thread...

Why should Hamed have fought JMM between 97- 2001?? JMM was fighting stiffs at that stage apart from Norwood who beat him!

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Missy

Old ground.

Barrera had a four fight deal with Warren when he was at 122, that's it. Maybe they (Barrera) thought it would move them closer to a fight with Hamed.

I think the Hamed camp thought Barrera would come to brawl like he did with Morales. Manny Steward joked they picked the wrong fighter when Barrera fought Jesus Salud.

Back to the topic :D JMM. At the time - JMM who?

Rain. JMM didn't duck Paq:rolleyes: He and many others thought he had won, why shouldn't he get a better pay deal?

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Originally Posted by Chino

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If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

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If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

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you guys are right, i used the word duck too losely and it is disrespectful to a great fighter like jmm.

the first fight could of gone either way and jmm does deserve to get a better deal. but at the time jmm was not as popular and it was a step backwards to go to asia and fight a unknown fighter worldwide, for a mere 30k. Pac was only making a few thousands fighting ledwaba,sanchez and only 30k to fight marco. JMM didn't duck pac but he made a bad decision taking chris johns offer because whatever pacs camp offer was still better.

Chino - Right now pac isn't fighting a chris john for 30k, his fighting a fighter that is one of the if not the most popular fighter worldwide, hatton for millions of dollars. Hatton is a bigger draw then JMM, Pac will make more fighting Hatton and legacy wise as well. JMM is the Greater fighter then Hatton but a win over Hatton is a lot better then a win over JMM right now. Because Pac has already won over JMM and another win would be great but a win over Hatton at 140 is ever GREATER.

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That's a nice little question. Who would do more for your legacy? Beating Hatton or Marquez. I think beating Marquez would do more for your legacy than Hatton would.

Hatton would be a great win because he is from a weightclass people didn't see Pacquiao competing in, but in a P4P basis, Marquez is much more than Hatton is...

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by Missy

Old ground.

Barrera had a four fight deal with Warren when he was at 122, that's it. Maybe they (Barrera) thought it would move them closer to a fight with Hamed.

I think the Hamed camp thought Barrera would come to brawl like he did with Morales. Manny Steward joked they picked the wrong fighter when Barrera fought Jesus Salud.

Back to the topic :D JMM. At the time - JMM who?

Rain. JMM didn't duck Paq:rolleyes: He and many others thought he had won, why shouldn't he get a better pay deal?

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Originally Posted by Chino

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

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you guys are right, i used the word duck too losely and it is disrespectful to a great fighter like jmm.

the first fight could of gone either way and jmm does deserve to get a better deal. but at the time jmm was not as popular and it was a step backwards to go to asia and fight a unknown fighter worldwide, for a mere 30k. Pac was only making a few thousands fighting ledwaba,sanchez and only 30k to fight marco. JMM didn't duck pac but he made a bad decision taking chris johns offer because whatever pacs camp offer was still better.

Chino - Right now pac isn't fighting a chris john for 30k, his fighting a fighter that is one of the if not the most popular fighter worldwide, hatton for millions of dollars. Hatton is a bigger draw then JMM, Pac will make more fighting Hatton and legacy wise as well. JMM is the Greater fighter then Hatton but a win over Hatton is a lot better then a win over JMM right now. Because Pac has already won over JMM and another win would be great but a win over Hatton at 140 is ever GREATER.

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That's a nice little question. Who would do more for your legacy? Beating Hatton or Marquez. I think beating Marquez would do more for your legacy than Hatton would.

Hatton would be a great win because he is from a weightclass people didn't see Pacquiao competing in, but in a P4P basis, Marquez is much more than Hatton is...

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P4P is mythical nonsense.

Of course beating Hatton - one of the BIGGEST stars in boxing and the undisputed king at 140 - enhances Pac's legacy over ANOTHER Marquez win.

How can that even be up for debate? :-\

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

you guys are right, i used the word duck too losely and it is disrespectful to a great fighter like jmm.

the first fight could of gone either way and jmm does deserve to get a better deal. but at the time jmm was not as popular and it was a step backwards to go to asia and fight a unknown fighter worldwide, for a mere 30k. Pac was only making a few thousands fighting ledwaba,sanchez and only 30k to fight marco. JMM didn't duck pac but he made a bad decision taking chris johns offer because whatever pacs camp offer was still better.

Chino - Right now pac isn't fighting a chris john for 30k, his fighting a fighter that is one of the if not the most popular fighter worldwide, hatton for millions of dollars. Hatton is a bigger draw then JMM, Pac will make more fighting Hatton and legacy wise as well. JMM is the Greater fighter then Hatton but a win over Hatton is a lot better then a win over JMM right now. Because Pac has already won over JMM and another win would be great but a win over Hatton at 140 is ever GREATER.

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That's a nice little question. Who would do more for your legacy? Beating Hatton or Marquez. I think beating Marquez would do more for your legacy than Hatton would.

Hatton would be a great win because he is from a weightclass people didn't see Pacquiao competing in, but in a P4P basis, Marquez is much more than Hatton is...

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P4P is mythical nonsense.

Of course beating Hatton - one of the BIGGEST stars in boxing and the undisputed king at 140 - enhances Pac's legacy over ANOTHER Marquez win.

How can that even be up for debate? :-\

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I wasn't looking at it over "another" Marquez victory. I was looking at it in a general perspective. If Pacquiao does win against Hatton, years from now looking at his resume and seeing a win over Marquez and a win over Hatton, which one would be better?

But I agree, at this point and time, a win over Hatton would be bigger than having another win against Marquez.

Fenster.
You're being a tool in this thread.

Fact.

;D

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Originally Posted by Missy

Fenster.
You're being a tool in this thread.

Fact.

;D

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Well yeah.. anyone that ends a sentence with the word FACT when it's clearly NOT fact is obviously being a tool. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Missy

Fenster.
You're being a tool in this thread.

Fact.

;D

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Well yeah.. anyone that ends a sentence with the word FACT when it's clearly NOT fact is obviously being a tool. Fact.

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That statement is a FACT , and thats a FACT.;D
Im also being a tool in this thread - FACT!!

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Missy

Fenster.
You're being a tool in this thread.

Fact.

;D

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Well yeah.. anyone that ends a sentence with the word FACT when it's clearly NOT fact is obviously being a tool. Fact.

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That statement is a FACT , and thats a FACT.;D
Im also being a tool in this thread - FACT!!

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Fact That! :)

What I will say about Marquez is that when the stars were in their prime ( Barrera , Morales, Naseem ) He was hardly known and losing to guys like Norwood. But when teh stars have aged, only now has Marquez become noticed.

Its abit like Wvlad is a top heavyweight now but if he was a round a decade ago , I dont think he would be as successful

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

This has come up in a couple of threads I've been a part of and wanted to get an actual one started.

Who ducked whom? Did Marquez duck Hamed or was it the other way around? I want to see what people think.

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Watch this video.

35 sec. mark... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ewo7qzKU80

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C-Lo

This has come up in a couple of threads I've been a part of and wanted to get an actual one started.

Who ducked whom? Did Marquez duck Hamed or was it the other way around? I want to see what people think.

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Watch this video.

35 sec. mark... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ewo7qzKU80

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Not a fan of Kellerman but I agree with him there...