Hamed/Marquez

[C-Lo]

This has come up in a couple of threads I've been a part of and wanted to get an actual one started.

Who ducked whom? Did Marquez duck Hamed or was it the other way around? I want to see what people think.

[RozzySean]

Remember, Marquez was the odd man out for a long time. Morales and Barrera were the bigger names and bigger draws. I'm not sure about this, but I'm guessing the loss to Freddie Norwood took JMM out of the Naz sweepstakes. There is a better case that Naz should have fought Morales. That would have been a bigger draw and by the time Naz fought Barrera, Morales had wins over Zaragoza, Junior Jones, Chacon, McCullough, Kelly, Chi, and Barrera. He also had the WBC belt at FW and Barrera was just coming up from 122. In 2000-2001, Morales would have been the biggest fight out there for him, but he fought Barrera instead. If Naz ducked anybody, he ducked Morales.

[Fenster]

Naz ducked Morales too?

If he had fought Morales instead of Barrera, i guess i would be reading people saying Naz ducked Barrera?

This boxing lark is great

[Julius Rain]

Remember, Marquez was the odd man out for a long time. Morales and Barrera were the bigger names and bigger draws. I'm not sure about this, but I'm guessing the loss to Freddie Norwood took JMM out of the Naz sweepstakes. There is a better case that Naz should have fought Morales. That would have been a bigger draw and by the time Naz fought Barrera, Morales had wins over Zaragoza, Junior Jones, Chacon, McCullough, Kelly, Chi, and Barrera. He also had the WBC belt at FW and Barrera was just coming up from 122. In 2000-2001, Morales would have been the biggest fight out there for him, but he fought Barrera instead. If Naz ducked anybody, he ducked Morales.

exaclty!

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

About Hamed, he was screwd no matter who he fought, mab,eric or jmm. They would of all owned him.

[The Fightfan]

Remember, Marquez was the odd man out for a long time. Morales and Barrera were the bigger names and bigger draws. I'm not sure about this, but I'm guessing the loss to Freddie Norwood took JMM out of the Naz sweepstakes. There is a better case that Naz should have fought Morales. That would have been a bigger draw and by the time Naz fought Barrera, Morales had wins over Zaragoza, Junior Jones, Chacon, McCullough, Kelly, Chi, and Barrera. He also had the WBC belt at FW and Barrera was just coming up from 122. In 2000-2001, Morales would have been the biggest fight out there for him, but he fought Barrera instead. If Naz ducked anybody, he ducked Morales.

To be honest I didn't know much about Marquez until his fight with derrick "Smoke" Gainer. From what I've heard this is pretty much how it happenend.

[RozzySean]

Naz ducked Morales too?

If he had fought Morales instead of Barrera, i guess i would be reading people saying Naz ducked Barrera?

This boxing lark is great

I don't know if he ducked Morales. Maybe they tried to make a deal and couldn't do it. Maybe they had something in place if Naz beat Barrera to raise his profile in Mexico. I'm saying that he didn't duck Marquez, because Marquez didn't have the cache and recognition he has now. BUT.....IF (again, I don't know the details and would love to know ) he ducked anybody, he ducked Morales. Morales was at his peak and Barrera's stock was down, because of losses to Jones and El Terrible.

If you compare where Morales was at that point in his career and where Barrera was, Morales was top dog. Morales was undefeated. Barrera had lost twice to Junior Jones and Morales. Morales had far more marquis names on his resume. He was a beltholder at 125.

The Naz fight resurrected MAB's career and put him on the map. Barrera's run of greatness started with Naz and continued with is wins over Morales. Barrera's great claim to fame is that he beat Naz and took 2 of 3 from El Terrible. His peak years came from 2001-2005. Morales peak years were from 1997 - 2002. He jumped into the rejuvenation machine to beat Pac in 2005 and that only adds to his legacy, but Morales true peak ran more parallel to Naz's than MAB or JMM.

[Fenster]

Naz ducked Morales too?

If he had fought Morales instead of Barrera, i guess i would be reading people saying Naz ducked Barrera?

This boxing lark is great

I don't know if he ducked Morales. Maybe they tried to make a deal and couldn't do it. Maybe they had something in place if Naz beat Barrera to raise his profile in Mexico. I'm saying that he didn't duck Marquez, because Marquez didn't have the cache and recognition he has now. BUT.....IF (again, I don't know the details and would love to know ) he ducked anybody, he ducked Morales. Morales was at his peak and Barrera's stock was down, because of losses to Jones and El Terrible.

If you compare where Morales was at that point in his career and where Barrera was, Morales was top dog. Morales was undefeated. Barrera had lost twice to Junior Jones and Morales. Morales had far more marquis names on his resume. He was a beltholder at 125.

The Naz fight resurrected MAB's career and put him on the map. Barrera's run of greatness started with Naz and continued with is wins over Morales. Barrera's great claim to fame is that he beat Naz and took 2 of 3 from El Terrible. His peak years came from 2001-2005. Morales peak years were from 1997 - 2002. He jumped into the rejuvenation machine to beat Pac in 2005 and that only adds to his legacy, but Morales true peak ran more parallel to Naz's than MAB or JMM.

The MAJORITY thought Barrera won the first Morales fight.

Barrera was in the wilderness after the Jones defeat (he spent a period being promoted by Frank Warren and was originally offered, but refused, the Naz fight around this time) but fully redeemed himself against Morales - even though he didn't get the decision.

I don't think it matters who Naz chose to fight - Barrera or Morales. They thought Barrera's style would suit Naz more, so probably viewed him as the "easier" option, and he had been sparked before of course.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Old ground.

Barrera had a four fight deal with Warren when he was at 122, that's it. Maybe they (Barrera) thought it would move them closer to a fight with Hamed.

I think the Hamed camp thought Barrera would come to brawl like he did with Morales. Manny Steward joked they picked the wrong fighter when Barrera fought Jesus Salud.

Back to the topic JMM. At the time - JMM who?

Rain. JMM didn't duck Paq He and many others thought he had won, why shouldn't he get a better pay deal?

[Chino]

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

[fan johnny]

Juan Manuel Márquez - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia

Marquez turned down Hamed (fact) it was first reported that he wasn't offered enough money but in an interview (later) he said he wasn't given enough time to prepare. So how can he be waiting two years to get this fight and then say its not enough time or money and then turn around and fight Jiminez for less. Would you say that's ducking a fight or not?

"Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory." (cluck.. cluck..)

Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics.

"They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it."

Pacquiao put about $30,000 in his pocket the first time he met MAB.

[Andre]

If Jmm or Jmms camp ever ducked anybody then it had to be pac, they offer jmm a rematch right away but jmm felt/excuse that he wasnt getting a fair share. Then he went to Chris John for a lot less.

If that is so, does it mean Pac is ducking JMM now? JMM wants the rematch and Pac ain't giving it to him.
Remember when Pac first said "No" to ODLH? Does it mean Pac was ducking ODLH? Nope, he just wanted a bigger buck. See what I mean?
Asking for a bigger buck and ducking someone are very different.

Agreed men at that level of the game dont duck as the name impiles fear.

Its timing the whole thing is timing in and out of the ring.
Managers are about timing/ Money .Trainers are timing/timing .
Fighters timing / glory /then the money.

Taking time out from a loss ,putting a match or two in between a loss is the safest way to redevelop your style to go back at one person with the correct sparring partners for any rematch. Its acceptable although not mentioned out front.
It would of been fantastic to have had a three way Mexican fight for the Grand Championship between Jmm Barrera and Moralles at the correct time though.
The Fans wanted it.
Throw Naz and that Koko guy from Hungary into that mix at the correct time and we would had an epic year.

[rene69]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

[ross]

Barrera's stock was down, because of losses to Jones and El Terrible.

The Naz fight resurrected MAB's career and put him on the map. Barrera's run of greatness started with Naz and continued with is wins over Morales

I dissagree, Marcos stock was very high after losing a decision in his first epic fight with Eric, alot of people thought Marco wan which made him the bigger draw outta the 2.

It was the biggest match to be made for Hamed at that point.

In fact JMM has never been a draw, a good fighter yes but if Hamed were to comeback and JMM was fighting the same night then more people would watch Hamed.

[Onix]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

I didnt know this exact scenario, but I was going to make a comment regarding this. Just cuz you are waiting for two years and suddenly decline a fight doesnt mean you ducked, it could exactly the situation that you described, given two weeks to prepare for a fight?! Joke. With an offer like that you can see who was ducking who.

[Fenster]

I remember this as if it was yesterday. MArquez was givin a two week notice to fight Hamed after being the #1 contender for well over a year, but had to pass due to the fact he had not been in training for any upcoming fight at the time. Hamed wanted no part of Marquez, and Marquez had the worst luck at the time because he couldn't get anyone to fight him, except for F Norwood...and you know what happened there. Ugliest fight I ever saw and it clearly removed Marquez from any big fights for yrs to come. I remember seeing Marquez on the way up and thing..."Damn! This guy's going to be great" and he was, but later in his career.

Marquez was offered the fight Augie Sanchez took on the 19-08-2000

Marquez then fought Daniel Jimenez eight days later on the 27-08-2000

You sure you remember right?