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No they arent,many omans have come out against this violenceQuote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Actually most have
Secondly as far as our treatment of prisoners,we are supposed to be better then that,pissing on the furniture doesnt make me any better then the cat,it only drags me down
Lyle is the hard right and apparently he has made it quite clear that killing in the name of any religion is repulsiveQuote:
Funny the hard right has been trying to make those lunatics at Waco martyrs for years now
At the end of the day,Lyle is moderate to far right,he isnt even close to serious hard right,those guys have compounds and scare me way more then Muslims. I dont have a Muslim living anywhere near me,but I bet I can find a methed up Christian who gods been talking to lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
If I judged christianity strictly on being anti gay while traiding meth for homosexual acts (Ted Haggerty) or claiming I redirected a hurricane away from Virginia right in to New England with the power of god(Pat "Actually ran for president"Robertson),youd think all Christians were out of their fucking gord
Trainer my experience in the Arab/Muslim world is that violence wins the day. Their culture doesn't respond to rational thought. It doesn't respond live and let live. They believe in absolutes. There is a reason that most arab/muslim nations are ruled by an iron fisted govt/monarch. I offered the world to tons of Iraqi's and rarely got anything but lipservice but a barrel of a gun got a lot of results. If you think we can play by our rules and win you are mistaken.
You mean where the south fired first?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Be a hell of a surprise to Egypt and Turkey,two of our allies in the region,who are both predominantly MuslimQuote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Trainer like I said I don't care for organized religion so bash away on Christians god knows that they have their own warts, but the reality is its apple and oranges. In today's world it is rare that mainstream christian denominations whole sale sponsor murder. That can't be said about Islam
There we get to my point,it is apples and oranges,when anyone says they speak for god,or god talks to them,something is most likely going to explode. My point being it doesnt matter what religion is setting the fuse,it seems to happen with all Judeo-Christian religions,including Islaam.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
But to take a moral higher ground postion of "We dont do that" oh horseshit,you have more then your share of nutjobs as well
Now who's stereotyping???Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Nobody is trying to say that ALL Christians are good and great but the culture of the west is a lot better than the culture of the middle ages
Funny,Ive been on some of those compounds,its hard to stereotype what youve seen with your own eyesQuote:
Originally Posted by LyleNow who's stereotyping???Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Nobody is trying to say that ALL Christians are good and great but the culture of the west is a lot better than the culture of the middle ages
And those guys are psychopaths for Christ
Ive been on the Christian Posse Comitatis and Aryan Nations compounds Lyle
Those guys are freaking nut jobs for the lord
Its not a matter of who they shoot,its a matter of making sure it isnt you until you get to the gate.
And to save time,Im one of the original SHARP Skinheads,and despite being Polish and Cherokee,the German gave me the blue eyes,the boneheads assumed I was white as the driven snow
But these are two examples though, and all they are examples of are either hypocrisy in the case of Haggerty or weird delused beliefs in the case of Robertson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyAt the end of the day,Lyle is moderate to far right,he isnt even close to serious hard right,those guys have compounds and scare me way more then Muslims. I dont have a Muslim living anywhere near me,but I bet I can find a methed up Christian who gods been talking to lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
If I judged christianity strictly on being anti gay while traiding meth for homosexual acts (Ted Haggerty) or claiming I redirected a hurricane away from Virginia right in to New England with the power of god(Pat "Actually ran for president"Robertson),youd think all Christians were out of their fucking gord
Nobody is arguing that religions don't or shouldn't have some weird beliefs, they all do, the difference is Christian sects don't represent mainstream Christianity and certainly don't represent national governments, and these people arn't beheading or stoning people.
How can you not see the difference here? :confused:
If you live in America you are free to choose to think Pat Robertson is a fucking loon and even to say so publicly.
If he was a Muslim cleric and you lived in Iran, your criticisms of him would get you killed.
THAT's the difference.
Why not move to the middle east if you prefer it and their values to your own country?
Of course you would be imprisoned immediately for training women to fight thus hinting at their equality, and they would be lashed, beaten and stoned to death for being whores for daring to bare their midriffs in public but its a better place right? :rolleyes:
How can you notQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboBut these are two examples though, and all they are examples of are either hypocrisy in the case of Haggerty or weird delused beliefs in the case of Robertson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyAt the end of the day,Lyle is moderate to far right,he isnt even close to serious hard right,those guys have compounds and scare me way more then Muslims. I dont have a Muslim living anywhere near me,but I bet I can find a methed up Christian who gods been talking to lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
If I judged christianity strictly on being anti gay while traiding meth for homosexual acts (Ted Haggerty) or claiming I redirected a hurricane away from Virginia right in to New England with the power of god(Pat "Actually ran for president"Robertson),youd think all Christians were out of their fucking gord
Nobody is arguing that religions don't or shouldn't have some weird beliefs, they all do, the difference is Christian sects don't represent mainstream Christianity and certainly don't represent national governments, and these people arn't beheading or stoning people.
How can you not see the difference here? :confused:
If you live in America you are free to choose to think Pat Robertson is a fucking loon and even to say so publicly.
If he was a Muslim cleric and you lived in Iran, your criticisms of him would get you killed.
THAT's the difference.
Why not move to the middle east if you prefer it and their values to your own country?
Of course you would be imprisoned immediately for training women to fight thus hinting at their equality, and they would be lashed, beaten and stoned to death for being whores for daring to bare their midriffs in public but its a better place right? :rolleyes:
Bush ran this country for 8 years
Remember anti gay marriage amendement attempt,cutting funding to family planning
Almost like he was beholden to the extreme end of some religion
They are silent because the whole Muslum thing is ran on the power of fear to control those under them.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Like the mob used to be; question them and pay or die; so general people let them go on the way put their heads down and shut up; so the mob evolved and now they are hidden and intrenched into higher places so that Mr and Mrs lewis dont have to see them at work in their streets any longer and now think they dont exist as a force.
Same goes for Our boys at the top of world affairs ,we've done our hard yards in the fields of blood already and we now run the global show.
Now its a matter of protect the position we have.The false Christain "we are here doing the job of the rightouss" is the biggest sham in history your bosses bow to politians who bow to the world banking order who bow to no one, not even God.So religion or freedom isnt what they are really protecting.
Religion is just the excuse now given from the politicans so that Mr and Mrs "Dumb as sh!t Lewis" nod there heads and keep voting and keep on paying taxes for your tours so that the top dogs can keep their control of the only system they belive in.
From our 'Political point of view' it isnt so much Muslim verses us ,although that does exist and they are a threat, sort of with that much oil under them and also the odd attack against our financial buildings etc (thats was a message from them hitting world trade like they did).If they were against Christians they would have shot a plane down into Vatican city (and dont rule that out)if we play that false card they will have a go at it.
Its now all a great excuse to justify the use of what we have built our society up on;which is also warfare and control of society as a whole.
Both sides are antiChrist both sides are insane in terms of the true message and the real way outlined in all the scriptures.
So not allowing gays to marry is the same as killing them , interesting :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyHow can you notQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboBut these are two examples though, and all they are examples of are either hypocrisy in the case of Haggerty or weird delused beliefs in the case of Robertson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Nobody is arguing that religions don't or shouldn't have some weird beliefs, they all do, the difference is Christian sects don't represent mainstream Christianity and certainly don't represent national governments, and these people arn't beheading or stoning people.
How can you not see the difference here? :confused:
If you live in America you are free to choose to think Pat Robertson is a fucking loon and even to say so publicly.
If he was a Muslim cleric and you lived in Iran, your criticisms of him would get you killed.
THAT's the difference.
Why not move to the middle east if you prefer it and their values to your own country?
Of course you would be imprisoned immediately for training women to fight thus hinting at their equality, and they would be lashed, beaten and stoned to death for being whores for daring to bare their midriffs in public but its a better place right? :rolleyes:
Bush ran this country for 8 years
Remember anti gay marriage amendement attempt,cutting funding to family planning
Almost like he was beholden to the extreme end of some religion
Gay people are tolerated in America, no attempt is made to stop them from being gay. It's just that the Christian religion and the sacrament of marriage says 'one man for one woman' and Bush wanted to uphold that. It doesn't allow polygmay either or human animal marriages but you didnt seem to mind that.
How does that even remotely compare to the Islamic world KILLING people SUSPECTED of being gay?
Almost like he was attempting to please his backers like somebody who is in office right now
Not funding AIDS research wasQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboSo not allowing gays to marry is the same as killing them , interesting :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyHow can you notQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Bush ran this country for 8 years
Remember anti gay marriage amendement attempt,cutting funding to family planning
Almost like he was beholden to the extreme end of some religion
Gay people are tolerated in America, no attempt is made to stop them from being gay. It's just that the Christian religion and the sacrament of marriage says 'one man for one woman' and Bush wanted to uphold that. He doesn't allow polygmay either or human animal marriages but you didnt seem to mind that.
How does that even remotely compare to the Islamic world KILLING people SUSPECTED of being gay?
Not interesting,but very true,well if you were a family member of someone dying of AIDS in the 80's I guess that would seem pretty interesting. Reagan refused to fund research
Any religion coming from America that spent most of the last century responding to Christs admonition "Whatsoever you do to the least of my children" by letting the victim of the lynching pick their tree branch, is going to sound more then a bit of BS
Heaven forbid the President was beholden to the American people,that might end up looking like representative democracyQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
So far they are your words Bilbo not Tms.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboSo not allowing gays to marry is the same as killing them , interesting :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyHow can you notQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Bush ran this country for 8 years
Remember anti gay marriage amendement attempt,cutting funding to family planning
Almost like he was beholden to the extreme end of some religion
Bilbo I agree ,it is wrong to treat your societies like that true;Ours is the better. There is a vast difference; but even you know that isnt why we are over there fighting them and thats not why you are placing those other facts out here to air either.
From what I read Tm is only drawing comparissions on evils out of both sides.
I think he well knows and admitts the evil undertones of both sides.
Can you see that side of it?
i maybe putting words in his mouth from reading between the lines too but I think he is against us in the West saying we are the warriors of God doing Gods work as Christians ,where as our undertones are also greed and insanity, just on a different level. Thus my posts on the matter.
Maybe we'll get there one day...but it won't be soonQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
This isn't a thread about war though Andre. It was just a thread made by Von Milash to highlight how the Muslims are trying to sentence to death a Muslim cleric who translated the Quran into the language of Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreSo far they are your words Bilbo not Tms.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboSo not allowing gays to marry is the same as killing them , interesting :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Bilbo I agree ,it is wrong to treat your societies like that true;Ours is the better. There is a vast difference; but even you know that isnt why we are over there fighting them and thats not why you are placing those other facts out here to air either.
From what I read Tm is only drawing comparissions on evils out of both sides.
I think he well knows and admitts the evil undertones of both sides.
Can you see that side of it?
i maybe putting words in his mouth from reading between the lines too but I think he is against us in the West saying we are the warriors of God doing Gods work as Christians ,where as our undertones are also greed and insanity, just on a different level. Thus my posts on the matter.
It also talked about a student sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for questioning women's rights under Islam and another man who was declared insane (reduced from death penalty) for converting to Christianity.
It was THOSE reports to which Von and myself were referring to when we said 'FUCKING LOONS!!!' and those only.
Apparently though TM feels our Western world is as equally oppressive and backwards to our own people as they Islamic world is to theirs.
Of course I, Von, Van Childs and Lyle all call bullshit on this :)
That is war, Bilbo;Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
from a bonafide combat killer.
Nope thats pretty close to it,so dont sweat it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreSo far they are your words Bilbo not Tms.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboSo not allowing gays to marry is the same as killing them , interesting :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Bilbo I agree ,it is wrong to treat your societies like that true;Ours is the better. There is a vast difference; but even you know that isnt why we are over there fighting them and thats not why you are placing those other facts out here to air either.
From what I read Tm is only drawing comparissions on evils out of both sides.
I think he well knows and admitts the evil undertones of both sides.
Can you see that side of it?
i maybe putting words in his mouth from reading between the lines too but I think he is against us in the West saying we are the warriors of God doing Gods work as Christians ,where as our undertones are also greed and insanity, just on a different level. Thus my posts on the matter.
All religous wars are stupid
Im going to prove my invisible man or dead martyr who preached non-violence was so holy,Im going to kill you for it.
Its dumb
But its dumb all around,there is alot of dumb to go around.
And when you dont have a high horse to get up on,but you act like you do,you encourage even more dumb.
I know I said I wasn't going to post again in this thread, but that might be the worst thing I have ever seen posted on this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
You and the "terrorists" deserve each other. I hope you eradicate yourselves.
"Bonafide combat killer" :rolleyes:
Fuk me this is sort of linked . last night watched 'secret flights' on the BBc knowledge channel.
Cia been flying planes and landing at bases in Moorocco,spain,kabul,poland,afanistan,germany.
They have been filmed by plane spotters who are these people who flim odd planes for some hobbie reason.
The prisoners on detention in Guatanimo, a fair few of them claim to have been kidnapped off the streets some in Europe some in Pakistan etc beaten ,drugged and taken to different countires where there is no law, tortured over many months ,small hundreds of razor cuts to the whole body, penis,balls the whole nine yards, electic shocks,insertions up the claccer the whole nightmare washed down in salt.Females accompaning the torure squads for humilty reasons, all trying to get them to sign papers for theor own guilt and association and to set up other musliums also as being in with Bin Laden etc. Men they didnt even know.
Some signed after months of abuse ,of course.Other had to learn a confession off by heart and say it on their own in front of a closed military court.
The cameras and the team interview many cia some who speak up to a large degree including the ex chief in charge of the operation who says " Iknow about it but I cannot comment on it",.. Bush gets quizzed,he knows too and shuns the question as do all his team.
Two of these men they have under arrest still; seem in all accounts to be innocnet and one in paticular a british student who travelled to Pakistan for a family wedding was kidnapped flown out put through the ringer and now is still under arrest and noone is allowed near him including his lawyer.
No contact with anyone,and no one is allowed into the court with him when they decide to try him !!! What the fuck!!!:o
Anyway when some of the prisoners have been able to get word out about dates they were flown in and out of countries,kidnapped etc ,they match up with records from these out of the way landing strips,numbers of planes all match etc to the day and to the country that the toruture was carried out in. All photographed as well .
When the plane landed in Spain mallorca the torture team actually spent a week relaxing in a hotel and used their real names (which were shown in a list and also their matchig army numbers alongside etc.
These 6 cia men have now got warrents out for them in Europe for kidnapping.
USA is silent about it all.wont even bite when quizzed.
This will test Barraka on if he is a man of conscience as he makes out or another devil in disguise.
Team Demon dressed up as Christians all off to work again.;)
Because alot of the overseas press are looking into it so it may get aired generally.
Canada handed over some poor Islamic bloke to the states and they got him and did the same things to him. let him go eventually cuase he was a canadian citizenl (whoops another wrong innocent man) He sued the Canadian goverment and cost their tax payers some 13 million with a full pardon and appolagies etc.
He filed against the USa too: so they have banned him from entering their boarders under the suspected terrorist laws.
It works in reverse as well...Maybe you'd prefer I'd have said "I/You/People will continue to find myself/themself etc in the crosshairs of muslims" I have a job to do CFH and I happen to be good at it. I apologize if this offends you but men like me do it so people like you don't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI know I said I wasn't going to post again in this thread, but that might be the worst thing I have ever seen posted on this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
You and the "terrorists" deserve each other. I hope you eradicate yourselves.
"Bonafide combat killer" :rolleyes:
That is a complete and utter lie. It's nothing more than propaganda wrapped in a bullshit slogan. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that way. What you are doing is more dangerous to me than the people you are "protecting" me from. You do not protect or represent me in any way and you're lying to yourself if you believe that is the case. I would gladly take up arms if someone or a people was directly threatening my life or that of my family etc., I'm far from a pacifist.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChildsIt works in reverse as well...Maybe you'd prefer I'd have said "I/You/People will continue to find myself/themself etc in the crosshairs of muslims" I have a job to do CFH and I happen to be good at it. I apologize if this offends you but men like me do it so people like you don't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHI know I said I wasn't going to post again in this thread, but that might be the worst thing I have ever seen posted on this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
You and the "terrorists" deserve each other. I hope you eradicate yourselves.
"Bonafide combat killer" :rolleyes:
The Iraqi's and Afghan's, aside from an incredibly small minority (which is growing because of your actions), and 99.9% of the world pose no threat to me. They pose no threat to me, and there are deep seeded reasons why they pose a threat to you. Killing people is only going to further exasperate and perpetuate those reasons and prolong the bloodshed; killing and dying for an imperialist cause in no way improves the situation.
Going by your words and the George Orwell slogan in your sig, you do it because of a manipulated and misguided sense of patriotism and because you want to play the role of the "protector". I disagree with it, and I'm not sure I have any more respect for you than I do for the so called "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
In his defense he did serve a 14 month tour of duty in Baghdad. I don't much like Islamic fundamentalist loons myself and can imagine if I spent more than a year in their country being shot at by them I would like them even less.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat is a complete and utter lie. It's nothing more than propaganda wrapped in a bullshit slogan. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that way. What you are doing is more dangerous to me than the people you are "protecting" me from. You do not protect or represent me in any way and you're lying to yourself if you believe that is the case. I would gladly take up arms if someone or a people was directly threatening my life or that of my family etc., I'm far from a pacifist.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChildsIt works in reverse as well...Maybe you'd prefer I'd have said "I/You/People will continue to find myself/themself etc in the crosshairs of muslims" I have a job to do CFH and I happen to be good at it. I apologize if this offends you but men like me do it so people like you don't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
The Iraqi's and Afghan's, aside from an incredibly small minority (which is growing because of your actions), and 99.9% of the world pose no threat to me. They pose no threat to me, and there are deep seeded reasons why they pose a threat to you. Killing people is only going to further exasperate and perpetuate those reasons and prolong the bloodshed; killing and dying for an imperialist cause in no way improves the situation.
Going by your words and the George Orwell slogan in your sig, you do it because of a manipulated and misguided sense of patriotism and because you want to play the role of the "protector". I disagree with it, and I'm not sure I have any more respect for you than I do for the so called "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I understand that, and it's not him personally that I have a problem with. I just despise everything he represents and has been indoctrinated to believe in. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboIn his defense he did serve a 14 month tour of duty in Baghdad. I don't much like Islamic fundamentalist loons myself and can imagine if I spent more than a year in their country being shot at by them I would like them even less.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat is a complete and utter lie. It's nothing more than propaganda wrapped in a bullshit slogan. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that way. What you are doing is more dangerous to me than the people you are "protecting" me from. You do not protect or represent me in any way and you're lying to yourself if you believe that is the case. I would gladly take up arms if someone or a people was directly threatening my life or that of my family etc., I'm far from a pacifist.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
The Iraqi's and Afghan's, aside from an incredibly small minority (which is growing because of your actions), and 99.9% of the world pose no threat to me. They pose no threat to me, and there are deep seeded reasons why they pose a threat to you. Killing people is only going to further exasperate and perpetuate those reasons and prolong the bloodshed; killing and dying for an imperialist cause in no way improves the situation.
Going by your words and the George Orwell slogan in your sig, you do it because of a manipulated and misguided sense of patriotism and because you want to play the role of the "protector". I disagree with it, and I'm not sure I have any more respect for you than I do for the so called "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I do feel sorry for anybody who has to go over there and fight, much as I feel sorry for the Iraqi's who have to fight, but what's going on has no justification in my eyes.
haha that's exactly like me and everyone who doesn't believe in creationsim and a 10,000 year old earth ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI understand that, and it's not him personally that I have a problem with. I just despise everything he represents and has been indoctrinated to believe in. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboIn his defense he did serve a 14 month tour of duty in Baghdad. I don't much like Islamic fundamentalist loons myself and can imagine if I spent more than a year in their country being shot at by them I would like them even less.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I do feel sorry for anybody who has to go over there and fight, much as I feel sorry for the Iraqi's who have to fight, but what's going on has no justification in my eyes.
Exactly. I'm sure you loathe my anti-religious agnosticism, but we still get along fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbohaha that's exactly like me and everyone who doesn't believe in creationsim and a 10,000 year old earth ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI understand that, and it's not him personally that I have a problem with. I just despise everything he represents and has been indoctrinated to believe in. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I do feel sorry for anybody who has to go over there and fight, much as I feel sorry for the Iraqi's who have to fight, but what's going on has no justification in my eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHExactly. I'm sure you loathe my anti-religious agnosticism, but we still get along fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbohaha that's exactly like me and everyone who doesn't believe in creationsim and a 10,000 year old earth ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
You two both squat for a piss, stop agreeing to disagree, kill each other like real men, its the only way I will be safe to sleep at night.
Out of 500+ (14 months in Eastern Baghdad) combat patrols more than 100 were Humanitarian Aid missions, 25 school openings, 15 hospital openings, 30 small business grants a working water purification and distribution plant and 500+ trained Iraqi National Police. I also spent more time than I ever want to recal picking up pieces of 35 Iraqi national police he were killed by VBIED. I've done more for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan than you could imagine. My soldiers and I treated the people with respect and only used deadly force when attacked. I serve my country out of a sense of duty and chose Infantry to challenge myself. I didn't ask to invade Iraq and didn't agree with it at the time, but we are there and we owe the Iraqi's to leave them with a democratic stable nation. I don't believe we can achieve victory in Afghanistan but in 12-18 months I will return there b/c the elected officials of this country tell me to. I don't pretend to know you or why you live your life as you do so please don't pretend to know me. I'm neither misguided or manipulated. I'm a soldier who follows lawful orders and leads men into combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat is a complete and utter lie. It's nothing more than propaganda wrapped in a bullshit slogan. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that way. What you are doing is more dangerous to me than the people you are "protecting" me from. You do not protect or represent me in any way and you're lying to yourself if you believe that is the case. I would gladly take up arms if someone or a people was directly threatening my life or that of my family etc., I'm far from a pacifist.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChildsIt works in reverse as well...Maybe you'd prefer I'd have said "I/You/People will continue to find myself/themself etc in the crosshairs of muslims" I have a job to do CFH and I happen to be good at it. I apologize if this offends you but men like me do it so people like you don't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFH
The Iraqi's and Afghan's, aside from an incredibly small minority (which is growing because of your actions), and 99.9% of the world pose no threat to me. They pose no threat to me, and there are deep seeded reasons why they pose a threat to you. Killing people is only going to further exasperate and perpetuate those reasons and prolong the bloodshed; killing and dying for an imperialist cause in no way improves the situation.
Going by your words and the George Orwell slogan in your sig, you do it because of a manipulated and misguided sense of patriotism and because you want to play the role of the "protector". I disagree with it, and I'm not sure I have any more respect for you than I do for the so called "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Your country illegally invaded Iraq, directly leading to the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people, and you expect them to be grateful because you're trying to clean up a tiny percentage of the mess you've made? That's laughable. If you did that in my country I'd be trying to kill you too.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChildsOut of 500+ (14 months in Eastern Baghdad) combat patrols more than 100 were Humanitarian Aid missions, 25 school openings, 15 hospital openings, 30 small business grants a working water purification and distribution plant and 500+ trained Iraqi National Police. I also spent more time than I ever want to recal picking up pieces of 35 Iraqi national police he were killed by VBIED. I've done more for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan than you could imagine. My soldiers and I treated the people with respect and only used deadly force when attacked. I serve my country out of a sense of duty and chose Infantry to challenge myself. I didn't ask to invade Iraq and didn't agree with it at the time, but we are there and we owe the Iraqi's to leave them with a democratic stable nation. I don't believe we can achieve victory in Afghanistan but in 12-18 months I will return there b/c the elected officials of this country tell me to. I don't pretend to know you or why you live your life as you do so please don't pretend to know me. I'm neither misguided or manipulated. I'm a soldier who follows lawful orders and leads men into combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThat is a complete and utter lie. It's nothing more than propaganda wrapped in a bullshit slogan. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that way. What you are doing is more dangerous to me than the people you are "protecting" me from. You do not protect or represent me in any way and you're lying to yourself if you believe that is the case. I would gladly take up arms if someone or a people was directly threatening my life or that of my family etc., I'm far from a pacifist.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
The Iraqi's and Afghan's, aside from an incredibly small minority (which is growing because of your actions), and 99.9% of the world pose no threat to me. They pose no threat to me, and there are deep seeded reasons why they pose a threat to you. Killing people is only going to further exasperate and perpetuate those reasons and prolong the bloodshed; killing and dying for an imperialist cause in no way improves the situation.
Going by your words and the George Orwell slogan in your sig, you do it because of a manipulated and misguided sense of patriotism and because you want to play the role of the "protector". I disagree with it, and I'm not sure I have any more respect for you than I do for the so called "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I'm not sure I know of a legal invasion in the history of war. Almost an oxymoron. Like I said I didn't agree with invading Iraq nor do I think the invasion or rebuilding phases early on were very well thought out but we are there so why not finish it. CFH I'm afraid you don't have your finger on the pulse of the Iraqi people. Most if not every average joe Iraqi I ever spoke to was better than they were in 2003 and most don't want us to leave. The younger generation is very excited about moving forward in a western government. If it makes you feel better to be disrespectful to me b/c you some how feel I am the embodiment of the American Government then go right ahead but I'm still one soldier doing what I'm told. I hope you treat your Canadian soldier's with more respect. I worked with several in the Aruzagon valley. Brave men.
Fair enough about a legal invasion, perhaps unjustified is a better word. To me it is criminal. I'm honestly not trying to disrespect you on a personal level, you're earlier comment pissed me off and that's why I responded in the way I did, but I have nothing against you personally. We just have completely different views about what you're doing. My views on these sorts of things are far from mainstream, I understand that, I just I don't feel that it is any different from any other kind of armed killing, IMO it was not necessary and that angers me.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Regarding Canadian soldiers, I don't have a ton of respect for what they represent. Individually, I have no problems with the few I know. A friend of mine from school is an infantryman (a reservist obviously). I don't feel much different about them than I do about any other soldiers. I hope none of them get killed and I hope they don't have to kill anybody, but obviously that is unrealistic. I don't have a lot of respect for the policies/goals of the governments they represent. I wish them no personal ill, but I in no way support what they represent.
Anyways, I don't want to get embroiled in a long, drawn out argument about politics or anything like that. I try to avoid that these days. I apologize for offending you, like I said, I was just pissed off about your comment and reacted harshly. I hope you come back from Iraq safely if you go again, but I also hope you don't have to kill anyone else. I just don't agree with why your are there etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
Good luck come home safe.
The only way to "finish it" is to break it in to 3 states Shia Sunni and Kurd,and leave. All we're doing now is putting people like you in a position where all 3 put aside their differences long enough to shoot at you in unison.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
CFH I think maybe you misunderstood my original statement. I'm not a very PC person so you will have to forgive me if I come off a little rough around the edges. I meant that as long radical islamists are volunteering and funding international terrorist orginizations my government will send me to defeat them. So I will continue to find myself on the other side of a firefight against muslims.
I have mixed feelings on whether the current type of government in Iraq can work. I was impressed with the Sunnis I worked with. They were typically well educated, hardworking, more open to western culture and government and well organized. The Shia due to 70+ years of having a boot on their neck are quite often poor and uneducated. But more importantly they are not organized. They spend just as much time with infighting as anything else. With the Sunnis now having a bigger role politcally we will just have to wait and see if the two can get along. The Kurds are really the biggest obstacle to a united Iraq. If they cannot be appeased and afforded some semblance of autonomy they will declare independence. With large swaths of both Turkey and Iran having Kurdish majorities this would instantly bring about tension and possibily military action. A resurgence of sectarian violence between Sunnia and Shia would pit a Iranian supported Shia majority against a Gulf State funded Sunni minority. We can blaim the cultural differences in Iraq and Afghanistan on the Brits though they drew the lines ;D Anyhow I digress...regardless of why or how we ended up in Iraq, the potential for disaster with a too speedy withdrawal compared with the possibilty of a democratic non fundamentalist nation smack dab in the middle of an area that is still coming to grips with the western world seems a no brainer to me
Of course US soldiers are still dying at an avg of 4 a week but over my last 120 days in country both Al Qaeda and Shia Militias started concentrating their attacks on Iraqi Security Forces and not us. Iraqis know we are on the way out and they have a better chance at success and making it out alive attacking Iraqis than us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyThe only way to "finish it" is to break it in to 3 states Shia Sunni and Kurd,and leave. All we're doing now is putting people like you in a position where all 3 put aside their differences long enough to shoot at you in unison.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds