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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CFH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CFH View Post

    I know I said I wasn't going to post again in this thread, but that might be the worst thing I have ever seen posted on this site.

    You and the "terrorists" deserve each other. I hope you eradicate yourselves.

    "Bonafide combat killer"
    It works in reverse as well...Maybe you'd prefer I'd have said "I/You/People will continue to find myself/themself etc in the crosshairs of muslims" I have a job to do CFH and I happen to be good at it. I apologize if this offends you but men like me do it so people like you don't have to.
    That is a complete and utter lie. It's nothing more than propaganda wrapped in a bullshit slogan. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that way. What you are doing is more dangerous to me than the people you are "protecting" me from. You do not protect or represent me in any way and you're lying to yourself if you believe that is the case. I would gladly take up arms if someone or a people was directly threatening my life or that of my family etc., I'm far from a pacifist.

    The Iraqi's and Afghan's, aside from an incredibly small minority (which is growing because of your actions), and 99.9% of the world pose no threat to me. They pose no threat to me, and there are deep seeded reasons why they pose a threat to you. Killing people is only going to further exasperate and perpetuate those reasons and prolong the bloodshed; killing and dying for an imperialist cause in no way improves the situation.

    Going by your words and the George Orwell slogan in your sig, you do it because of a manipulated and misguided sense of patriotism and because you want to play the role of the "protector". I disagree with it, and I'm not sure I have any more respect for you than I do for the so called "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Out of 500+ (14 months in Eastern Baghdad) combat patrols more than 100 were Humanitarian Aid missions, 25 school openings, 15 hospital openings, 30 small business grants a working water purification and distribution plant and 500+ trained Iraqi National Police. I also spent more time than I ever want to recal picking up pieces of 35 Iraqi national police he were killed by VBIED. I've done more for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan than you could imagine. My soldiers and I treated the people with respect and only used deadly force when attacked. I serve my country out of a sense of duty and chose Infantry to challenge myself. I didn't ask to invade Iraq and didn't agree with it at the time, but we are there and we owe the Iraqi's to leave them with a democratic stable nation. I don't believe we can achieve victory in Afghanistan but in 12-18 months I will return there b/c the elected officials of this country tell me to. I don't pretend to know you or why you live your life as you do so please don't pretend to know me. I'm neither misguided or manipulated. I'm a soldier who follows lawful orders and leads men into combat.
    Most bad government has grown out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CFH View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post

    It works in reverse as well...Maybe you'd prefer I'd have said "I/You/People will continue to find myself/themself etc in the crosshairs of muslims" I have a job to do CFH and I happen to be good at it. I apologize if this offends you but men like me do it so people like you don't have to.
    That is a complete and utter lie. It's nothing more than propaganda wrapped in a bullshit slogan. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that way. What you are doing is more dangerous to me than the people you are "protecting" me from. You do not protect or represent me in any way and you're lying to yourself if you believe that is the case. I would gladly take up arms if someone or a people was directly threatening my life or that of my family etc., I'm far from a pacifist.

    The Iraqi's and Afghan's, aside from an incredibly small minority (which is growing because of your actions), and 99.9% of the world pose no threat to me. They pose no threat to me, and there are deep seeded reasons why they pose a threat to you. Killing people is only going to further exasperate and perpetuate those reasons and prolong the bloodshed; killing and dying for an imperialist cause in no way improves the situation.

    Going by your words and the George Orwell slogan in your sig, you do it because of a manipulated and misguided sense of patriotism and because you want to play the role of the "protector". I disagree with it, and I'm not sure I have any more respect for you than I do for the so called "terrorists" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Out of 500+ (14 months in Eastern Baghdad) combat patrols more than 100 were Humanitarian Aid missions, 25 school openings, 15 hospital openings, 30 small business grants a working water purification and distribution plant and 500+ trained Iraqi National Police. I also spent more time than I ever want to recal picking up pieces of 35 Iraqi national police he were killed by VBIED. I've done more for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan than you could imagine. My soldiers and I treated the people with respect and only used deadly force when attacked. I serve my country out of a sense of duty and chose Infantry to challenge myself. I didn't ask to invade Iraq and didn't agree with it at the time, but we are there and we owe the Iraqi's to leave them with a democratic stable nation. I don't believe we can achieve victory in Afghanistan but in 12-18 months I will return there b/c the elected officials of this country tell me to. I don't pretend to know you or why you live your life as you do so please don't pretend to know me. I'm neither misguided or manipulated. I'm a soldier who follows lawful orders and leads men into combat.
    Your country illegally invaded Iraq, directly leading to the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people, and you expect them to be grateful because you're trying to clean up a tiny percentage of the mess you've made? That's laughable. If you did that in my country I'd be trying to kill you too.
    Last edited by CFH; 02-09-2009 at 02:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    I'm not sure I know of a legal invasion in the history of war. Almost an oxymoron. Like I said I didn't agree with invading Iraq nor do I think the invasion or rebuilding phases early on were very well thought out but we are there so why not finish it. CFH I'm afraid you don't have your finger on the pulse of the Iraqi people. Most if not every average joe Iraqi I ever spoke to was better than they were in 2003 and most don't want us to leave. The younger generation is very excited about moving forward in a western government. If it makes you feel better to be disrespectful to me b/c you some how feel I am the embodiment of the American Government then go right ahead but I'm still one soldier doing what I'm told. I hope you treat your Canadian soldier's with more respect. I worked with several in the Aruzagon valley. Brave men.
    Most bad government has grown out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post
    I'm not sure I know of a legal invasion in the history of war. Almost an oxymoron. Like I said I didn't agree with invading Iraq nor do I think the invasion or rebuilding phases early on were very well thought out but we are there so why not finish it. CFH I'm afraid you don't have your finger on the pulse of the Iraqi people. Most if not every average joe Iraqi I ever spoke to was better than they were in 2003 and most don't want us to leave. The younger generation is very excited about moving forward in a western government. If it makes you feel better to be disrespectful to me b/c you some how feel I am the embodiment of the American Government then go right ahead but I'm still one soldier doing what I'm told. I hope you treat your Canadian soldier's with more respect. I worked with several in the Aruzagon valley. Brave men.
    Fair enough about a legal invasion, perhaps unjustified is a better word. To me it is criminal. I'm honestly not trying to disrespect you on a personal level, you're earlier comment pissed me off and that's why I responded in the way I did, but I have nothing against you personally. We just have completely different views about what you're doing. My views on these sorts of things are far from mainstream, I understand that, I just I don't feel that it is any different from any other kind of armed killing, IMO it was not necessary and that angers me.

    Regarding Canadian soldiers, I don't have a ton of respect for what they represent. Individually, I have no problems with the few I know. A friend of mine from school is an infantryman (a reservist obviously). I don't feel much different about them than I do about any other soldiers. I hope none of them get killed and I hope they don't have to kill anybody, but obviously that is unrealistic. I don't have a lot of respect for the policies/goals of the governments they represent. I wish them no personal ill, but I in no way support what they represent.

    Anyways, I don't want to get embroiled in a long, drawn out argument about politics or anything like that. I try to avoid that these days. I apologize for offending you, like I said, I was just pissed off about your comment and reacted harshly. I hope you come back from Iraq safely if you go again, but I also hope you don't have to kill anyone else. I just don't agree with why your are there etc.

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    I didn't read this whole thread but someone in the beginning claimed when has christianity ever done as much evil as islam, well islam is a fairly young religion compared to judaism and christianity, and guess what those two in their early years were just as shit fuckin crazy. The crusades were basically sanctioned killings by the pope, along the way they didn't really care whom they killed often times killing the christians as well and sacking christian cities. No religion is crazier than another one, its just that at the moment loonies are more dominant in islam than in christianity, but it wasn't always like that. For fucks sake adolf hitler considered himself to be doing gods work.There are highs and lows for every civilization, islamic civilization if you want to call it that, just happens to be perhaps at a low at the moment, just like western culture/ christian civilization was at a low for several hundred years during the dark ages, during this time the middle east was rather advanced when compared to europe. I can't believe people don't see this...

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Well that's because you're entirely wrong.

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Good debate tactic just tell someone they're wrong, and keep at it. Why am I entirely wrong? Crusades weren't really military campaigns by christian europe waged against muslims, jews, eastern orthodox christians and numerous other peoples? They weren't sanctioned by the pope? Crusaders were not granted forgiveness for all kinds of sins by the church if they went on a crusade? Talking of church approved torture and prosecution anyone remember the inquistions? Expeling/killing of jews from almost every european country during the medival ages, not once but several times. Christianity has just as much blood on its hands as islam, the religions themselves are not crazy they're just books/systems of belief and people do with it as they choose to do with it.

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post
    I'm not sure I know of a legal invasion in the history of war. Almost an oxymoron. Like I said I didn't agree with invading Iraq nor do I think the invasion or rebuilding phases early on were very well thought out but we are there so why not finish it. CFH I'm afraid you don't have your finger on the pulse of the Iraqi people. Most if not every average joe Iraqi I ever spoke to was better than they were in 2003 and most don't want us to leave. The younger generation is very excited about moving forward in a western government. If it makes you feel better to be disrespectful to me b/c you some how feel I am the embodiment of the American Government then go right ahead but I'm still one soldier doing what I'm told. I hope you treat your Canadian soldier's with more respect. I worked with several in the Aruzagon valley. Brave men.

    Good luck come home safe.
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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post
    I'm not sure I know of a legal invasion in the history of war. Almost an oxymoron. Like I said I didn't agree with invading Iraq nor do I think the invasion or rebuilding phases early on were very well thought out but we are there so why not finish it. CFH I'm afraid you don't have your finger on the pulse of the Iraqi people. Most if not every average joe Iraqi I ever spoke to was better than they were in 2003 and most don't want us to leave. The younger generation is very excited about moving forward in a western government. If it makes you feel better to be disrespectful to me b/c you some how feel I am the embodiment of the American Government then go right ahead but I'm still one soldier doing what I'm told. I hope you treat your Canadian soldier's with more respect. I worked with several in the Aruzagon valley. Brave men.
    The only way to "finish it" is to break it in to 3 states Shia Sunni and Kurd,and leave. All we're doing now is putting people like you in a position where all 3 put aside their differences long enough to shoot at you in unison.

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    CFH I think maybe you misunderstood my original statement. I'm not a very PC person so you will have to forgive me if I come off a little rough around the edges. I meant that as long radical islamists are volunteering and funding international terrorist orginizations my government will send me to defeat them. So I will continue to find myself on the other side of a firefight against muslims.

    I have mixed feelings on whether the current type of government in Iraq can work. I was impressed with the Sunnis I worked with. They were typically well educated, hardworking, more open to western culture and government and well organized. The Shia due to 70+ years of having a boot on their neck are quite often poor and uneducated. But more importantly they are not organized. They spend just as much time with infighting as anything else. With the Sunnis now having a bigger role politcally we will just have to wait and see if the two can get along. The Kurds are really the biggest obstacle to a united Iraq. If they cannot be appeased and afforded some semblance of autonomy they will declare independence. With large swaths of both Turkey and Iran having Kurdish majorities this would instantly bring about tension and possibily military action. A resurgence of sectarian violence between Sunnia and Shia would pit a Iranian supported Shia majority against a Gulf State funded Sunni minority. We can blaim the cultural differences in Iraq and Afghanistan on the Brits though they drew the lines Anyhow I digress...regardless of why or how we ended up in Iraq, the potential for disaster with a too speedy withdrawal compared with the possibilty of a democratic non fundamentalist nation smack dab in the middle of an area that is still coming to grips with the western world seems a no brainer to me
    Most bad government has grown out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post
    CFH I think maybe you misunderstood my original statement. I'm not a very PC person so you will have to forgive me if I come off a little rough around the edges. I meant that as long radical islamists are volunteering and funding international terrorist orginizations my government will send me to defeat them. So I will continue to find myself on the other side of a firefight against muslims.

    I have mixed feelings on whether the current type of government in Iraq can work. I was impressed with the Sunnis I worked with. They were typically well educated, hardworking, more open to western culture and government and well organized. The Shia due to 70+ years of having a boot on their neck are quite often poor and uneducated. But more importantly they are not organized. They spend just as much time with infighting as anything else. With the Sunnis now having a bigger role politcally we will just have to wait and see if the two can get along. The Kurds are really the biggest obstacle to a united Iraq. If they cannot be appeased and afforded some semblance of autonomy they will declare independence. With large swaths of both Turkey and Iran having Kurdish majorities this would instantly bring about tension and possibily military action. A resurgence of sectarian violence between Sunnia and Shia would pit a Iranian supported Shia majority against a Gulf State funded Sunni minority. We can blaim the cultural differences in Iraq and Afghanistan on the Brits though they drew the lines Anyhow I digress...regardless of why or how we ended up in Iraq, the potential for disaster with a too speedy withdrawal compared with the possibilty of a democratic non fundamentalist nation smack dab in the middle of an area that is still coming to grips with the western world seems a no brainer to me
    Hey Van,

    I just want to take the opportunity to apologize again. My beef is not with you on any personal level, and it really has nothing to do with you. I am very critical of the governments of both our countries, and our "western/northern" way of life in general, and I guess for whatever reason I transferred my feelings about them to you after I read your comment. That is both juvenile and unfair for me to do. After reading your clarification, I did misunderstand what you were saying as well, but that is really no excuse for my behavior. I know my views are not mainstream, and sometimes I can be quite provocative and belligerent about them when I get heated, which is why I normally avoid these types of threads. You have as much right to your views as I do to mine, and for me to act otherwise is absurd.

    I'm going to try and avoid discussing the politics etc. of the situation because we have quite different views and arguing about them over the internet serves little to no purpose. I do believe we both wish to see the same thing at the end of the day.

    Anyways, all the best to you and I hope you come back to your family safely at the end of the day. Good luck.

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    No worries brother
    Most bad government has grown out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

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    Default Re: Geez these f'ers are crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VanChilds View Post
    I'm not sure I know of a legal invasion in the history of war. Almost an oxymoron. Like I said I didn't agree with invading Iraq nor do I think the invasion or rebuilding phases early on were very well thought out but we are there so why not finish it. CFH I'm afraid you don't have your finger on the pulse of the Iraqi people. Most if not every average joe Iraqi I ever spoke to was better than they were in 2003 and most don't want us to leave. The younger generation is very excited about moving forward in a western government. If it makes you feel better to be disrespectful to me b/c you some how feel I am the embodiment of the American Government then go right ahead but I'm still one soldier doing what I'm told. I hope you treat your Canadian soldier's with more respect. I worked with several in the Aruzagon valley. Brave men.
    The only way to "finish it" is to break it in to 3 states Shia Sunni and Kurd,and leave. All we're doing now is putting people like you in a position where all 3 put aside their differences long enough to shoot at you in unison.
    Of course US soldiers are still dying at an avg of 4 a week but over my last 120 days in country both Al Qaeda and Shia Militias started concentrating their attacks on Iraqi Security Forces and not us. Iraqis know we are on the way out and they have a better chance at success and making it out alive attacking Iraqis than us.
    Most bad government has grown out of too much government. Thomas Jefferson

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