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Probably some form of inbreeding in his ancestry that means he is genetically programmed to behave like a dickQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
the thing is, in no way am i slamming Manny Pacquiao by saying that Tszyu would beat him, don't get what the dudes prob isQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Balboax2, agreed with everything you've said ElTerribleMoralesQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Manny's chin is good, not great, he's been rocked plenty of times, and against small fighters, Larios, Morales, and JMM all rocked him, and his 2 KO losses were at 106, he's got a good chin, but he's in no way got a set of granite chops to walk through people in the higher weight classes punchesQuote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
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Originally Posted by KananKrus
That's why I don't involved much in fantasy match-up discussions coz we will never know the real outcome... It's nice to discuss but not much of real use...;)
I prefer to discuss upcoming actual fights...
.
Vazquez improved dramatically under Roach, Hopkins beat Calzaghe, and Penalosa never stood a chacne against Lopez.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyour trainer can only take you so far, and if having Roach in your corner is a reason for winning a fight WTF happened when he trained...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
De La Hoya for Mayweather
B-Hop for Calzaghe
Penalosa for Lopez
Vazquez for R. Marquez (first fight, seeing how i believe Vazquez changed trainers after that fight)
etc.
in a nutshell, Mickey Rourke is still making movies for a reason...
don't kid yourself Tszyu is a top 5 junior welter ATG, and IMO one of the best counter punchers ever, it would be a tough fight but i see him tagging Manny with the right all night, and yea Kostya was no spring chicken when he fought Hatton, and gettin his balls bashed didn't help much eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
Pac has just too much talent and technique and tsysu couldnt keep up with him.
He leads with a strong jab and i think that would make the diff
I think PAC dominates Tsysu but the sad truth is. We will never know for sure. :(
point is, none of them, including Manny win, only cause they have Roach in their cornerQuote:
Originally Posted by TaethVazquez improved dramatically under Roach, Hopkins beat Calzaghe, and Penalosa never stood a chacne against Lopez.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyour trainer can only take you so far, and if having Roach in your corner is a reason for winning a fight WTF happened when he trained...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
De La Hoya for Mayweather
B-Hop for Calzaghe
Penalosa for Lopez
Vazquez for R. Marquez (first fight, seeing how i believe Vazquez changed trainers after that fight)
etc.
in a nutshell, Mickey Rourke is still making movies for a reason...
don't kid yourself Tszyu is a top 5 junior welter ATG, and IMO one of the best counter punchers ever, it would be a tough fight but i see him tagging Manny with the right all night, and yea Kostya was no spring chicken when he fought Hatton, and gettin his balls bashed didn't help much eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
You can add the Barrera fight as well. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
At that late stage yes but we are talking about in their prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. SteelhammerYou are pin pointing Roach's bad moments which is not fair and erelevant to the discussion. Those guys that you mentioned are no Manny Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyour trainer can only take you so far, and if having Roach in your corner is a reason for winning a fight WTF happened when he trained...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
De La Hoya for Mayweather
B-Hop for Calzaghe
Penalosa for Lopez
Vazquez for R. Marquez (first fight, seeing how i believe Vazquez changed trainers after that fight)
etc.
in a nutshell, Mickey Rourke is still making movies for a reason...
don't kid yourself Tszyu is a top 5 junior welter ATG, and IMO one of the best counter punchers ever, it would be a tough fight but i see him tagging Manny with the right all night, and yea Kostya was no spring chicken when he fought Hatton, and gettin his balls bashed didn't help much eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steelhammer
Tyszu never fought someone like Pacquiao, who moves a lot, with blinding speed and undeniable power. Kostya wasn't a flashy quick counterpuncher. Pac would make him quit on his stool faster than Hatton did.
That is a 'no he wouldnt'.
Wow Jaz, you got me there haha, I mean I have no comeback to 11 year old cutdowns from a boy who watches all the HBO fights on youtube cause mommy won't order for you, gee wilikers there must be inbreeding somewhere but as far as I know me and your mom are in no way related! Not sure who it was but anyone saying Kostya would dominate Pac in four rounds is indeed a cutdown to Pacs ability, and besides thats total BS! I know I sound like a broken record and maybe its just me but I don't see how anyone can have a legit argument that Kostya's opponets pound for pound are as high a caliber as Pacquiao's?
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
That's why I don't involved much in fantasy match-up discussions coz we will never know the real outcome... It's nice to discuss but not much of real use...;)
I prefer to discuss upcoming actual fights...
.
In their prime ;
I cant see Manny overwhelming him early so if he was going to win, it would be by belting him stupid late.
Tszyu could time stuff comming at him, Manny would get hit with big shots over that time which would equal the fight out in Manny some what, later in the game.
Manny on points if he lasts or a Tszyu stoppage 45/55.
yeah, and it's funny how some would get annoyed when people disagree with them. it's just opinions folks as much as opposing opinions in this case are just that. this is actually useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinitoGood point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
That's why I don't involved much in fantasy match-up discussions coz we will never know the real outcome... It's nice to discuss but not much of real use...;)
I prefer to discuss upcoming actual fights...
.
Oh levi, you're just too damn quick for me :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
You're undoubtedly a bigger boxing fan than me, because its says you're the #1 boxing fan in your name. I'm curious as to how you watched the Pacquiao-Hatton fight? Me? I was in the Grand watching it live, so no I don't need 'mommy' to pay for me to watch it on HBO.
You go for the obvious 'I did your mum' comment, which again shows a truly staggering level of maturity. I mean that's not even clever. I'm going at your mental capacity & your inability to adequately interact on a social level with other posters (stop me when you get confused) as you demonstrate by not being able to read other what other people are actually saying & taking it as an assault on your beloved Pac. You then throw your toys out the pram when anyone says Tszyu might win. I don't care if you think Pacquiao beats Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler & Muhammad Ali at the same time, its your opinion.
Now overall, I think Pacquiao is a greater boxer than Tszyu by quite some way, but at 140 Tszyu was the man, and I think he would have had the better of Pacquiao at the weight. You appear to know nothing about Tszyu and you completely dismiss anything he has done, and the fact you think that paying for fights makes you a fan says a lot.
In discussing upcoming fights, you may sound a total moron and delusional before a fight and then hailed like a genius or a Nostradamus after the fight...;DQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisseryeah, and it's funny how some would get annoyed when people disagree with them. it's just opinions folks as much as opposing opinions in this case are just that. this is actually useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinitoGood point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
.
Go away!! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerIn discussing upcoming fights, you may sound a total moron and delusional before a fight and then hailed like a genius or a Nostradamus after the fight...;DQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisseryeah, and it's funny how some would get annoyed when people disagree with them. it's just opinions folks as much as opposing opinions in this case are just that. this is actually useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinito
.
:p;D
THREAD : Who wins in their primes TSYU or Pacquiao
PAC HATER : Tsyu kayoes him in 4
PAC NUTS : NO. Pac kayoes him
PAC HATER: WTF?! why do you think PAC cant be beaten? you know nothing about boxing.
OUTCOME : NOTHING Fight is not happening :(
THREAD : DLH v Pac
PAC HATER : DLH is too big, one left hook ends it
PAC NUTS : pac beats him and proly stops him late
PAC HATER : WTF??!! you're DELUSIONAL you know nothing about boxing.
OUTCOME : ;)
THREAD : Hatton v Pac
PAC HATER : Hatton is too big and strong, Hatton wins by KO
PAC NUTS : Hatton wont touch pac. Pac by KO
PAC HATER : !!??!! Hatton fights at 140 forever manny hasnt faced anything like him. hatton is just too big. You know shit about boxing
OUTCOME : ;)
In fantasy even Levinston Brumble can beat Pacquiao.
I can beat Manny Pac and I'm not even in my Prime!! :D
:pQuote:
Originally Posted by milesGo away!! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxerIn discussing upcoming fights, you may sound a total moron and delusional before a fight and then hailed like a genius or a Nostradamus after the fight...;DQuote:
Originally Posted by KKisser
.
:p;D
There's only oneeeeeeeee Ricky Hatton (my **** ) .... :p (joke)
;D I'm going ..... away ...
.
You know I'm just kidding with you. Still feeling a bit sheepish about getting so excited about the Hatton fight and it all being over so early, that's all! ;);DQuote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer:pQuote:
Originally Posted by milesGo away!! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by SaddoBoxer
:p;D
There's only oneeeeeeeee Ricky Hatton (my **** ) .... :p (joke)
;D I'm going ..... away ...
.
Kosta Tszyu was a master at adapting during a fight to counter his opponents style, so this would be very interesting imo. I am one of those that thinks Tszyu was awesome, but slightly overrated, I don't think his opposition was great.
I actually see Pac winning this one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
Mate im not even a pac hater,im a fan. I have picked against him twice (delahoya,hatton) but that was only coz i thought they were too big not coz i didnt want him to win. I thought it was awesome how he beat hatton and dela hoya. But styles make fights and tszyu was great at fighting fast southpaws and pacman would be no different. Tszyu would time him and land his right hand down the middle nearly at will after figuring him out. That is what kostyas game was, hed find away to land on you and the thing with him landing...he landed hard and i think pac would crumble eventually.
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Originally Posted by snakey
Tsyu knocking Pac out is a possibility of course. But do you really think that tsyu timing pac with the BIG BIG right hand is a better possibility than pac's movement and speed befuddling tsyu on the the way to a TKO for pac?
pac's movement and speed troubles everbody and he's got great stamina for long haul. again the problem here is we wont find out how it plays out.
This fight i dont want to see. Both are my favorites.
I do want to mention the time when Koysta came back from a long lay off and ko'ed sharmba mitchell :D Sharmba thought he was king of lightwelterweight at the time, uh no King Koysta is :)
Almost 50% of Tszyu's fights were against World Champions, i think he fought 16 of them! And You think his opposition is not great? Puzzling? His first World Champion win was against Juan La Porte in only his 4th pro fight!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I don't think we ever saw the best of Tszyu but i urge you to have another look at his wins over Miguel Angel Gonzalez and Zab Judah, both fighters beaten at their peaks!
It was not Tszyu's fault he was sidestepped by DLH and Mosley!!
Mate i think Kostya at his best is as good as or even better than JMM so do i think kostya would figure his movement out..hell yes! Thats what he did mate, i dont think you get that. If you were good at moving and had quick hands, he made you move the way he wanted you (zab judah, sharmba) and made sure he countered the speed by effective hard counters.No zab and sharmba werent as good a pac but zab back then had awesome speed, a sharp left hand and good movement and he got knocked the fuck out. So dont think its not a possibility for kostya to hurt pac and beat him early coz he could of.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_langQuote:
Originally Posted by snakey
Tsyu knocking Pac out is a possibility of course. But do you really think that tsyu timing pac with the BIG BIG right hand is a better possibility than pac's movement and speed befuddling tsyu on the the way to a TKO for pac?
pac's movement and speed troubles everbody and he's got great stamina for long haul. again the problem here is we wont find out how it plays out.
Credit for beating Zab, but I think it's fair to say Zab aint going down as an ATG. Gonzales was another good win but he had already been soundly beaten by DLH and just drawn with an ancient JCC.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANAlmost 50% of Tszyu's fights were against World Champions, i think he fought 16 of them! And You think his opposition is not great? Puzzling? His first World Champion win was against Juan La Porte in only his 4th pro fight!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I don't think we ever saw the best of Tszyu but i urge you to have another look at his wins over Miguel Angel Gonzalez and Zab Judah, both fighters beaten at their peaks!
It was not Tszyu's fault he was sidestepped by DLH and Mosley!!
Losses to Hatton and Philips also don't help his resume. His opposition was sound and good, but if we are talking about being an all time great, his best win is against Zab Judah! Tszyu probably is an all time great and he can only beat who is put in front of him, but you can't say that his opposition was phenomenal by any stretch of the imagination
Quote:
Originally Posted by snakeyMate i think Kostya at his best is as good as or even better than JMM so do i think kostya would figure his movement out..hell yes! Thats what he did mate, i dont think you get that. If you were good at moving and had quick hands, he made you move the way he wanted you (zab judah, sharmba) and made sure he countered the speed by effective hard counters.No zab and sharmba werent as good a pac but zab back then had awesome speed, a sharp left hand and good movement and he got knocked the fuck out. So dont think its not a possibility for kostya to hurt pac and beat him early coz he could of.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_langQuote:
Originally Posted by snakey
Tsyu knocking Pac out is a possibility of course. But do you really think that tsyu timing pac with the BIG BIG right hand is a better possibility than pac's movement and speed befuddling tsyu on the the way to a TKO for pac?
pac's movement and speed troubles everbody and he's got great stamina for long haul. again the problem here is we wont find out how it plays out.
I agree mate. im not disputing that.
Lets just agree that you believe that Kostya will land the big righ hand in the early round for the KO ala Zab.
What i believe on the other hand is Pacquiao at this level wont be caught by that kind of a shot. Roach would definately prepare for tsyu and Pac is a great student.
If the left that land on hatton's chin doesnt find kostya's. Pac will overwhelm him betweem rounds 8 to 11.
----
Even Before the Barrera fight i believed that pac can beat most of the greats of his time BUT at this moment i almost cant believe HOW massive the improvements are and he's still learning.
I think its kinda ridiculous how theres like a feudal system on this forum. Some people (not all) with a few thousand posts beleive they have infinite knowledge.....uhcoughJaz.....like thats makes a difference or something? Jaz I don't need to hear your new vocabulary words you learned in class today, try making a point with them next please. The longer Manny's career goes on the more people will agree with me oon how much better Manny is than Kostya, I told JT Rock the same thing when Manny was fighting Hatton and I havnt seen him on here since. Have a great Day!
:lolhaha:.....clearly he fears your infinite wisdom,spotted him earlier>>>:peeker:Quote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
Judah at the time was undefeated, and went on to be undisputed welterweight champion, honestly i think Judah is the way he is now due to lack of dedication, a weak mindset, and the fact that Tszyu pretty much ruined him IMO, he put a real dent in his confidence and it's been evident since, but that doesn't take away the natural talent that Judah had, at 140 he was just as fast as Manny and he had loads of power in his shots, not saying he's as good as Pacquiao, but it gives a good impression that Tszyu would have been able to deal with PAC's speed and movement, on that note, don't know why people are thrashing Hatton for getting stopped in the 2nd, at least it was against the p4p #1 best fighter in the world, can't say the same happened for Jones Jr.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCredit for beating Zab, but I think it's fair to say Zab aint going down as an ATG. Gonzales was another good win but he had already been soundly beaten by DLH and just drawn with an ancient JCC.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANAlmost 50% of Tszyu's fights were against World Champions, i think he fought 16 of them! And You think his opposition is not great? Puzzling? His first World Champion win was against Juan La Porte in only his 4th pro fight!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I don't think we ever saw the best of Tszyu but i urge you to have another look at his wins over Miguel Angel Gonzalez and Zab Judah, both fighters beaten at their peaks!
It was not Tszyu's fault he was sidestepped by DLH and Mosley!!
Losses to Hatton and Philips also don't help his resume. His opposition was sound and good, but if we are talking about being an all time great, his best win is against Zab Judah! Tszyu probably is an all time great and he can only beat who is put in front of him, but you can't say that his opposition was phenomenal by any stretch of the imagination
Lol spic, I havnt seen him! Cant say that I want to either, our arguments where me out. Judah May have been close to same speed and power as Manny but what I think sets Manny apart is his foot work. He bounces in and out like bruce lee. Ive never seen another fighter with Pacquiao's type of movement, and I think that gives him a big edge! Does anyone know if I where to find that picture of that dude posing as Pacman with that hot chick on his arm? That was the funniest thing i've ever seen!
:-X:-X:-X yea cause it's a well known fact that Jeet Kune Do is where Manny's boxing style came from...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales:-X:-X:-X yea cause it's a well known fact that Jeet Kune Do is where Manny's boxing style came from...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
;D
Well, i guess we will have to agree to disagree on the Tszyu opposition argument, fighting 16 World Champions in your career is a mighty fine effort IMO. A lot of fighters have losses on their resumes that puts them under a cloud, Pacquiao is no exception, DLH and Mosley have losses that should not be there too, it happens to most fighters. Should Mosley have lost to Forrest twice? He was losing to Raul Marquez until it was declared NC! Chavez was 35 when he drew with Gonzalez, hardly ancient and had only lost twice in his career before that fight. Pacquiao is fresh in everyones mind right now and Tszyu was at his best 9- 10 years ago, judgements are bound to be in favour of the most recent fighter. I just think Manny's style would be tailor made for Tszyu and would not have caused him to many problems, i base that on Pacman's two fights with Marquez, both fights i think he lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HCredit for beating Zab, but I think it's fair to say Zab aint going down as an ATG. Gonzales was another good win but he had already been soundly beaten by DLH and just drawn with an ancient JCC.Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANAlmost 50% of Tszyu's fights were against World Champions, i think he fought 16 of them! And You think his opposition is not great? Puzzling? His first World Champion win was against Juan La Porte in only his 4th pro fight!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I don't think we ever saw the best of Tszyu but i urge you to have another look at his wins over Miguel Angel Gonzalez and Zab Judah, both fighters beaten at their peaks!
It was not Tszyu's fault he was sidestepped by DLH and Mosley!!
Losses to Hatton and Philips also don't help his resume. His opposition was sound and good, but if we are talking about being an all time great, his best win is against Zab Judah! Tszyu probably is an all time great and he can only beat who is put in front of him, but you can't say that his opposition was phenomenal by any stretch of the imagination
Do you always have to be so sarcastic? I've read Lee's Jeet Kune Do book and his style is very similar to what Bruce described in his techniques, so role your eyes all you want, but do a little research before your next post please:rolleyes:. By the way if you knew anything about Jeet Kune Do you would know that it orriginates from no where. Lee studied western boxing, fencing as well with all the various asian forms of martial arts. Jeet Kune Do is not a certain standard of moves, those become predictable, its ever changing, adapting to the moment.
Jeet Kune Do is not a fighting style, said so by Bruce Lee himself, it's a mentality, self growth, breaking all boundaries to any "laws" or "rules" in specific fighting styles, basically do whatever is needed to get the job done, i don't have to research what i already know budQuote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
Yes JT Rock must be terrified. As a matter of fact you weren't on here for months were you on a Pacquiao pilgrimmage or somethin? There's no feudal system, posters who make good points get props regardless of how many posts they've got, posters who come on here and behave like they've recently had a personality bypass such as yourself don't. Why do you think people are neg-repping you? I have made points it just seems you're unable to comprehend a paragraph that doesn't have words 'Manny' or 'Pacquiao' in at least 3 times :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan
Oh yeah, and the Bruce Lee comparisom DEFINITELY shows your infinite boxing knowledge, I bow in awe :rolleyes:
Ahh I see you have studied it, I take back my comments. As for my negative rep points I could really care less, I've learned to embrace those when people like Jaz spew out their verbal diarea about my posts. Jaz if you think the only person I have commented on is Pacquiao threads than thats the only threads you've been on. It seems the Pacquiao threads are the most debatable and interesting and I have commented on them more than the others but I comment on just about everything but lame heavyweights. And about me not being on here for a few months? Well Jaz I do a little thing called "Work" and I get busy sometimes. I'm sure you might have a hard time realizing what that is being that you sit in front of your cp with your bag of hot fries and Diet coke putting fake pictures of yourself on e-harmony!:-\
Im leaning even more so to Tzsyu knocking Pacquiao out in a somewhat sloppy but physical battle.Just dont see Manny has ever been faced with the inside strength and sturdiness,accurate power punching of a Tzsyu.Manny has in all fairness faced exactly two fighters at the 140 range.In one he had total domination and in the later half a shadow of a DLH sitting on the outside soaking up damage,very little if any resistance.Hatton brought the apperance of a inside strength factor and body attack going in but was prone to collecting left hooks and while I like the guy,respect his moxie...the cat was out of the bag as far as him being there to be countered,especially with left hooks.Sensational win for Manny,but 2 rounds at 140 does not make you a sure thing to defeat one of the best jr.Welt has seen.He never got going,and that credit has to be given to Manny.Barrera,2nd Morales and heated flip of a coin mutual battles with JMM were great feats & superb talents but at lighterweight and just could not match the power of body and hands of a natural 140 in Tzsyu,who had faced much diversity in styles from the outset of career,from rugged types,to fast handed-mover types.Manny would attack and his increased footwork and fast hands would suite him well early,but Kostya was a very smart calculator and I think he slows Manny down with short shots and rights & after some bristling early rounds,gets him standing in front of him for a TKO late.