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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
yeah, I could remember the time when you were like promoting him here and I thought you were Joan himself.;D
Remember the time when you were passionately telling the people here that he would dominate Pac and that Pac has no chance against him and that Pac is ducking him ( somewhat to that statement, I can't remember all the things you've said about that man). I must admit he seems to have a potential so i will agree that he's a waste of a talent.
I had it 120-119 Guzman.
Funeka was f:censored:ing Guaman up:foruml10gc5:
The judges should hang their heads in shame:vd:
Thats crap and you know it, i never ever said he would dominate Manny Pacquiao or that Manny Pacquiao was ducking him. And i rarely talked about Joan Guzman, the only time i spoke about him was when he was brought up as possible opponent for Manny Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceleeQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
yeah, I could remember the time when you were like promoting him here and I thought you were Joan himself.;D
Remember the time when you were passionately telling the people here that he would dominate Pac and that Pac has no chance against him and that Pac is ducking him ( somewhat to that statement, I can't remember all the things you've said about that man). I must admit he seems to have a potential so i will agree that he's a waste of a talent.
Just because my boy didn't look great, theres no need to say all of what you said. Because i clearly never talked about him much, nor did i overrate him quite like what your making out.
I remember saying he would be a very good opponent, for Manny Pacquiao which he would of been at the lower weightclasses. And he clearly is a talented fighter, its just he's wasted too much of his career and clearly the opponent he was fighting.
Was a freak of nature being over 6 foot and a Lightweight, i don't think anyone in boxing today would look good against Ali Funeka. And what makes me laugh Bruce is that people call you a troll on here, and you constantly hype up Manny Pacquiao like your on his payroll. Yet you say im the one that was constantly hyping up Joan Guzman which is total nonsense.
Pac-Guaman at 122 would of been the great
Guzman is fighting Funeka well above his best weight
Add in inactivity
Funeka's freakish gifts in height & reach
All spells a bad night for Joan
Who hung tough
At 122 Pac was busting his ass against Sanchez:p
Who knows what might have happen
Between Pac-Guzman at Super-Bantam
What a coincidence I just rewatched the fight last night. People should take a look at that fight. I think fighters should watch that fight if they want to beat Pacquiao. Frustrate him by fouling him non stop. I swear without exaggeration. There's at least 20 Low blows in that fight by the late agapito. at Least 5 intentional heat butt. 5 elbows and 1 leg drop. The leg drop was legit not just WWF type fake leg drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
Pac-Guzman at 122 is 50-50 IMO. Pacquiao has the power but not as diverse in his attack compared to now and Guzman hasnt showed anything worthy againts top level opponents as of that point.
You crack me up brotherQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_langWhat a coincidence I just rewatched the fight last night. People should take a look at that fight. I think fighters should watch that fight if they want to beat Pacquiao. Frustrate him by fouling him non stop. I swear without exaggeration. There's at least 20 Low blows in that fight by the late agapito. at Least 5 intentional heat butt. 5 elbows and 1 leg drop. The leg drop was legit not just WWF type fake leg drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
Pac-Guzman at 122 is 50-50 IMO. Pacquiao has the power but not as diverse in his attack compared to now and Guzman hasnt showed anything worthy againts top level opponents as of that point.
That was a dirty ass fight;D
Remember Guzman stopped Sanchez in 7 at that weight:thumb:
That weas straight after the Pac fight
yeah i was aware of that WBO Belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by CleonYou crack me up brotherQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_langWhat a coincidence I just rewatched the fight last night. People should take a look at that fight. I think fighters should watch that fight if they want to beat Pacquiao. Frustrate him by fouling him non stop. I swear without exaggeration. There's at least 20 Low blows in that fight by the late agapito. at Least 5 intentional heat butt. 5 elbows and 1 leg drop. The leg drop was legit not just WWF type fake leg drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
Pac-Guzman at 122 is 50-50 IMO. Pacquiao has the power but not as diverse in his attack compared to now and Guzman hasnt showed anything worthy againts top level opponents as of that point.
That was a dirty ass fight;D
Remember Guzman stopped Sanchez in 7 at that weight:thumb:
That weas straight after the Pac fight
There was no offer from Guzman camp that im aware of when they're were @122. Unless i miss it but i doubt it. Im online 10 hours a day 5 days a week. I wont miss that big news if they really offer a fight with Pacquiao. the truth is Guzman camp didnt offer a fight with Pacquiao and Pac have a bigger name than Guzman Pac wants Barrera who was a GOD at that time.
among i rewatched last night was an interview with Pac's fomer manager the Late Rod Nazario. In the interview he said Pac wants Barrera so bad. Nazario himself as well as his trainer dont want a Barrera fight. They all think he's not ready. But Pac keeps on bugging him everyday that after the Lucero fight. He started negotiating with the Barrera Camp.
The thing with Guzman is. he thinks everybody is avoiding him :confused: . The only thing close to that is Juan Manuel Marquez fight with Rocky Juarez. Guzman was initially considered for that fight but JMM camp preferred Juarez.
Erik Morales, MAB and Pac are the Big names and they didnt avoid him. His camp didnt offer a fight. but Guzman thinks they avoided him because they didnt offer him a fight :confused:
Pac didn't avoid himQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_langyeah i was aware of that WBO Belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by CleonYou crack me up brotherQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
That was a dirty ass fight;D
Remember Guzman stopped Sanchez in 7 at that weight:thumb:
That weas straight after the Pac fight
There was no offer from Guzman camp that im aware of when they're were @122. Unless i miss it but i doubt it. Im online 10 hours a day 5 days a week. I wont miss that big news if they really offer a fight with Pacquiao. the truth is Guzman camp didnt offer a fight with Pacquiao and Pac have a bigger name than Guzman Pac wants Barrera who was a GOD at that time.
among i rewatched last night was an interview with Pac's fomer manager the Late Rod Nazario. In the interview he said Pac wants Barrera so bad. Nazario himself as well as his trainer dont want a Barrera fight. They all think he's not ready. But Pac keeps on bugging him everyday that after the Lucero fight. He started negotiating with the Barrera Camp.
The thing with Guzman is. he thinks everybody is avoiding him :confused: . The only thing close to that is Juan Manuel Marquez fight with Rocky Juarez. Guzman was initially considered for that fight but JMM camp preferred Juarez.
Erik Morales, MAB and Pac are the Big names and they didnt avoid him. His camp didnt offer a fight. but Guzman thinks they avoided him because they didnt offer him a fight :confused:
But it was a fight I wanted to see
Pac took Barrera-no foul there
Would have liked to have seen him against-
Ayala-Larios-Vasquez or Monshipour around that time tough:thumb:
To be honest with you. I dont want Guzman, Vasquez and larios at that time ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CleonPac didn't avoid himQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_langyeah i was aware of that WBO Belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
There was no offer from Guzman camp that im aware of when they're were @122. Unless i miss it but i doubt it. Im online 10 hours a day 5 days a week. I wont miss that big news if they really offer a fight with Pacquiao. the truth is Guzman camp didnt offer a fight with Pacquiao and Pac have a bigger name than Guzman Pac wants Barrera who was a GOD at that time.
among i rewatched last night was an interview with Pac's fomer manager the Late Rod Nazario. In the interview he said Pac wants Barrera so bad. Nazario himself as well as his trainer dont want a Barrera fight. They all think he's not ready. But Pac keeps on bugging him everyday that after the Lucero fight. He started negotiating with the Barrera Camp.
The thing with Guzman is. he thinks everybody is avoiding him :confused: . The only thing close to that is Juan Manuel Marquez fight with Rocky Juarez. Guzman was initially considered for that fight but JMM camp preferred Juarez.
Erik Morales, MAB and Pac are the Big names and they didnt avoid him. His camp didnt offer a fight. but Guzman thinks they avoided him because they didnt offer him a fight :confused:
But it was a fight I wanted to see
Pac took Barrera-no foul there
Would have liked to have seen him against-
Ayala-Larios-Vasquez or Monshipour around that time tough:thumb:
as i' ve told you Barrera was GOD then and you have Erik Morales who was Barrera's equal.
It was Dream come true when they announce the Barrera fight.
On Guzman : Back to square one for him. If established superstar can fight 2-3 fights a year why cant he? He should fight at least 3 times a year if not more.
I agree the commentary glossed over a lot of the defensive work Guzman did buuuuuut a draw is not out of the question. Look at the punchstats! ;D
No but really, you could see Guzman was waaay effected by the injury to his nose that made him breathe through his mouth. I really don't think he fought that bad of a fight, he just didn't have the legs afterwards to keep moving and instead of limiting to Funeka to single jabs from the outside, he lingered around and got hit with more. It's to bad, he's a good fighter but I scored it (with the commentary) 9 rounds to 3, giving 1,2 and 7 to Guzman, same as HBO. For all I know, 11 and 12 could very well have been his which means if even one of those other rounds is even, that's a draw and a victory baby! Of course in this instance, draw and victory go together. Since there was no champion, the belt was vacant, therefore no fighter had to 'take the belt', it was kind of just lying there for both of them. When Guzman saw that he was losing the actual fight and literally getting beat up, he did the smart thing and won the boxing match instead. Great American tactic he surely picked up in New York. He closed out the last 15 seconds of rounds brilliantly, often times he smiled and winked at others in the crowd, it was quite a performance.
It was a pretty clear that Guzman won more rounds then it actually looked he won. He was also definitely more macho and fought the braver man's fight, which I think was good for a single round at least, which in addition to the 5 he won is a draw.
Clearer heads will prevail and we'll see it for ourselves one day. Good job both guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
You had it 9 rounds to 3. And you said 11 and 12 could be his. If you give that to him (w/c you didnt) that would still be Funeka 115-113.
now you said if another round is even. say 10-10. That would still be 115-114 Funeka
You've given him all the benefits and you still had him losing mate. Maybe Funeka was really robbed. Maybe my interpretaion of your post is wrong?
:)
I said he was the more macho man (or something to that extent) so that should get him at least 1 round extra on some judge's scorecards. So being modest, that would flip it around, giving Guzman a 115-114 (a very possible 116-115) decision. But other then that yeah. I had it 9-3, but 5 rounds to 4 with 3 even for either guy isn't a scorecard I could argue with. If I was watching the fight and then comparing my scorecard simultaneously, I'm not sure I could defend it. But as a scorecard itself, it's a really solid one.
I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
I thought you said you have it 9 rounds to 3 for Funeka. All good mate.
So that's amat, Ouma, Mar and Jimmy (when he watches it) that have it a draw/win for Guzman.
I told ya so.
The more that watch without the sound the more will come to the realisation that a draw was justified.
ICB? Please watch without the sound. A splendid judge like yourself WILL find it a draw (or maybe slight win for Guz). We await your verdict.
More and more it's coming to light that only PACHUGGERS have scored it against the Guzman. Fact.
I hear the judge who scored against Guzman, the New Jersey one, was actually watching a stream of the fight live thus he didn't see Guzman actually avoid almost every punch. That guy is just tired of rooting for the Nets.
Anyway ya want to add it
Guzman was owned
Round 8 could of been 10-8 for Funeka
10-8 for tripping over his own feet giving off the false impression he was momentarily stunned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
You need to watch with the sound turned down for a truly enlightening experience about how you were conned by sound. Trust me.
I still had Funeka winning. But it was a lot closer. One or two round difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster10-8 for tripping over his own feet giving off the false impression he was momentarily stunned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
You need to watch with the sound turned down for a truly enlightening experience about how you were conned by sound. Trust me.
So that's Fenster, VD, amat, Ouma, Mar and Jimmy (when he watches it).
Open your eyes and close your ears people.
Justice for Guzman!!!
It was a typical HBO hype job, another case of the guy who's active just for activity's sake getting the judges benefit of the doubt. BTW I will not be answering any specific questions about this fight like who were the announcers, which eleven rounds I had even, etc., etc. A waste of my precious time.
To be fair Guzman slaughtered Ali in rounds one and two. Your scorecard smells a bit of anti-Guz.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Come now Ouma, be fair, don't be trying to rob the Guz.
i guess only pachuggers also saw guzman staggering across the ring huh? so if you guys are saying that guzman was the aggressor and should at least get a round just for that how did delahoya lose against floyd knowing that delahoya was the aggressor all night?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
We already established the stagger was due to a semi-trip. You are not aware of this because of your ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334i guess only pachuggers also saw guzman staggering across the ring huh? so if you guys are saying that guzman was the aggressor and should at least get a round just for that how did delahoya lose against floyd knowing that delahoya was the aggressor all night?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Guzman wasn't getting hit as much as the commentary or sound effects from your viewing box were fooling you into believing. Trust us.
Please rewatch the fight with the sound off. You will thank us for the sudden illumination.
i do have a television not a radio. i dont listen to commentators especially on this fight because for once they were pro guzman. and i dont need to listen to their play by play to know whos winning the fight. anyway, you are telling me that guzmans cut, the blood on his shorts, the puffing of his eyes are caused by the commentary and sound effects? and when you say "we established the stagger was due to a semi-trip" who are the "we" you are referring to? what i saw was a punch that guzman didnt see coz he showboated a lot and almost sent him to lala land. if he got tripped as you say why did he lay on the ropes after and covered up?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWe already established the stagger was due to a semi-trip. You are not aware of this because of your ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334i guess only pachuggers also saw guzman staggering across the ring huh? so if you guys are saying that guzman was the aggressor and should at least get a round just for that how did delahoya lose against floyd knowing that delahoya was the aggressor all night?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Guzman wasn't getting hit as much as the commentary or sound effects from your viewing box were fooling you into believing. Trust us.
Please rewatch the fight with the sound off. You will thank us for the sudden illumination.
Guz tripped over his own feet, then played possum followed by some rope-a-dope.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334i do have a television not a radio. i dont listen to commentators especially on this fight because for once they were pro guzman. and i dont need to listen to their play by play to know whos winning the fight. anyway, you are telling me that guzmans cut, the blood on his shorts, the puffing of his eyes are caused by the commentary and sound effects? and when you say "we established the stagger was due to a semi-trip" who are the "we" you are referring to? what i saw was a punch that guzman didnt see coz he showboated a lot and almost sent him to lala land. if he got tripped as you say why did he lay on the ropes after and covered up?Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWe already established the stagger was due to a semi-trip. You are not aware of this because of your ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334
Guzman wasn't getting hit as much as the commentary or sound effects from your viewing box were fooling you into believing. Trust us.
Please rewatch the fight with the sound off. You will thank us for the sudden illumination.
That was plain as day man. Fact.
For all you know? Glad you're not judging fights, or maybe you are... Exactly which other round do you think he took?Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
No, a draw is a win for a champion, as he gets to keep his belt. Except a draw was a win for Guzman, because it was a gift for him.Quote:
Of course in this instance, draw and victory go together. Since there was no champion, the belt was vacant, therefore no fighter had to 'take the belt', it was kind of just lying there for both of them.
Really? He out boxed him?Quote:
When Guzman saw that he was losing the actual fight and literally getting beat up, he did the smart thing and won the boxing match instead. Great American tactic he surely picked up in New York. He closed out the last 15 seconds of rounds brilliantly, often times he smiled and winked at others in the crowd, it was quite a performance.
Is this a Yogi Berra quote you dug up? Because that's hilarious!Quote:
It was a pretty clear that Guzman won more rounds then it actually looked he won.
Yes, at the end of the fight the judges can, and really should, choose one round to reverse in favor of the more macho fighter.Quote:
He was also definitely more macho and fought the braver man's fight, which I think was good for a single round at least, which in addition to the 5 he won is a draw.
I agree both guys did do a good job, and I think Guzman fought with a lot of heart and tried to the end. He still lost, though, and there really should be some sort of recourse for decisions like this.Quote:
Clearer heads will prevail and we'll see it for ourselves one day. Good job both guys.
I think I get it now. You and Fenster don't really believe the BS you're spouting. You're just trying to see how riled up you can get people.
Alright,alright.....I went back and hit the mute button.Wanting to be clean about it though...I covered the screen as well so as to not give me an unfair edge.Now all things considered and thinking myself a very fair minded fight fan....I still had Funeka clearly winning,even wider this time :D
I've watched now without soundQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster10-8 for tripping over his own feet giving off the false impression he was momentarily stunned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
You need to watch with the sound turned down for a truly enlightening experience about how you were conned by sound. Trust me.
Funeka hurt Guzman:thumb:
Still had Funeka winning
Tried to be biased towards Guaman & give him everything conceivable
Still wasn't enough:-\
Fine fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I had it 6 rounds a piece for the draw ;D ;D
Fighter A Dominates for 6 rounds. Fighter B clearly wins 2 rounds. Fighter A nick it by an inch but very close in the other 4 rounds but Its possible/justifiable to give those to fighter B.
Draw is justifiable :cool:
Can ahomie clear this up for me-
Why would a Pachugger score it for Guzman???
Pacs great-but has no relevance on this fight
The better man should have won the fight
-That was Funeka:thumb:
Nooooooow you get it ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Myk_Myk
:thumb: :coolclick: ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
Guzman is clearly out of his fighting weight. Granted he coudln't finish other fighters before (or didn't want to). I had never seen him come into a fight with anything less than an 8 pack and ripped up muscles!
What I don't like about this fight is that what caused everything to change, as everyone is so willing to forget/overlook is the damn head butts and elbows!! Funeka stunk of foul play when he couldn't his him for the first couple rounds.
I really liked this fight like a bad horror flick. It made me sick to watch, but very entertaining. Joan will be back, but never a p4p great again. Funeka can take a body shot for sure, but he will never make p4p either.
I didnt know Funeka was that good!!!plus Joan was beaten by the size reach thing !!!! Ive never seen Valera but he has a tiger on his hands
then your day must be cloudy. i saw a short right that hit guzman right on the button. if that right travelled a lil bit more distance it could have been lights out by guzman and you could have called it a phantom punch. give me a break man.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterGuz tripped over his own feet, then played possum followed by some rope-a-dope.Quote:
Originally Posted by josef4334i do have a television not a radio. i dont listen to commentators especially on this fight because for once they were pro guzman. and i dont need to listen to their play by play to know whos winning the fight. anyway, you are telling me that guzmans cut, the blood on his shorts, the puffing of his eyes are caused by the commentary and sound effects? and when you say "we established the stagger was due to a semi-trip" who are the "we" you are referring to? what i saw was a punch that guzman didnt see coz he showboated a lot and almost sent him to lala land. if he got tripped as you say why did he lay on the ropes after and covered up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
That was plain as day man. Fact.
thank you my friend. i dunno why pacs name was even in this. i mean yeah, im one of his fans but that dont mean i cant score another fight without him in it. anybody and their momma who is trying to be fair would call that decision an outrage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleon
Most of the extreme Pac fans have always disliked Guzman from way back. Just saying. That's possibly the reason for some of these wild scorecards, I mean I could see Funeka by a point or two, a draw is ok, but anything more than that, woah.
I thought guzman would get sparked in a few rounds but he lasted all 12, so I actually thought he did great.