If Calzaghe was that good he wouldn't be the most argued about fighter on here no body causes an heated debate like a Calzaghe and his career FACT.;)
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If Calzaghe was that good he wouldn't be the most argued about fighter on here no body causes an heated debate like a Calzaghe and his career FACT.;)
Thats most peoples point! Yes, he did beat everyone put in front of him because he picked and chose his opponents. He pulled out of god knows how many fights that ive lost count. He never pulled out of fights against bums i noticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw85
F**k me, he beat everyone put in front of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
You keep saying he waited till Jones and hopkins were too old, Joe was only 3-4 years younger, all thats doing is making excuces for Roy and the like. Much like people do with muhummad ali late in his career, getting beaten by allcomers. If Roy jones and the other boys were too old, then they shouldn't of gotten in the ring.
NO EXCUSES!!!!!
big Joe is the man, undefeated man that is
I agree. As far as British champs go, I'd pick Calzaghe as one of the better ones. I would've loved to see Calzaghe test himself in facing a young Jones or even a younger BHop. The narrow victory over a 43 year old Hopkins just wasn't enough to prove to me that hes a "living legend". Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and I think he may have even had the potential to be named among the ATGs, but he just never proved it. Yes he beat everyone that he faced, but it's the quality of opposition and the performances that you put on, not just the win on your record. If Julio Caesar Chavez Jr retired today with his undefeated record, would you call him a "living legend"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Interesting how Joe gets accused of ''Pulling out'' all the time.
So Hopkins is a bum.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36Thats most peoples point! Yes, he did beat everyone put in front of him because he picked and chose his opponents. He pulled out of god knows how many fights that ive lost count. He never pulled out of fights against bums i noticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw85F**k me, he beat everyone put in front of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
You keep saying he waited till Jones and hopkins were too old, Joe was only 3-4 years younger, all thats doing is making excuces for Roy and the like. Much like people do with muhummad ali late in his career, getting beaten by allcomers. If Roy jones and the other boys were too old, then they shouldn't of gotten in the ring.
NO EXCUSES!!!!!
big Joe is the man, undefeated man that is
Glen Johnson is what?
Name the fights he pulled out of? (That weren't due to damaged hands and subsequently rescheduled)Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36Thats most peoples point! Yes, he did beat everyone put in front of him because he picked and chose his opponents. He pulled out of god knows how many fights that ive lost count. He never pulled out of fights against bums i noticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw85F**k me, he beat everyone put in front of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
You keep saying he waited till Jones and hopkins were too old, Joe was only 3-4 years younger, all thats doing is making excuces for Roy and the like. Much like people do with muhummad ali late in his career, getting beaten by allcomers. If Roy jones and the other boys were too old, then they shouldn't of gotten in the ring.
NO EXCUSES!!!!!
big Joe is the man, undefeated man that is
Name the fighters he ducked that were fighting at SMW during his reign!
His resume may not be great, but nor was the division ;)
Antwun Echols Syd Vanderpool and Glenn Johnson and more Frank Warren said about 10Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HName the fights he pulled out of? (That weren't due to damaged hands and subsequently rescheduled)Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36Thats most peoples point! Yes, he did beat everyone put in front of him because he picked and chose his opponents. He pulled out of god knows how many fights that ive lost count. He never pulled out of fights against bums i noticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw85
Name the fighters he ducked that were fighting at SMW during his reign!
His resume may not be great, but nor was the division ;)
:vd:
Is that it :confused:
I could say the same thing in relation to the "living legend's" resume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Thing is these were risky fights at the time he didn't reshedule he fought someone else he pulled out on Johnson twice to the point Johnson thought he was just wasting his time and went on and fought someone else. He wanted Woods vs Johnson winner they had a war Woods won and Calzaghe didn't pursue it and Hobson and Warren both said they were happy for the fight to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
It's laughable to think that Calzaghe would duck Tarver, Vanderpool, Woods or Johnson, yet fight Lacy (who at the time all the hindsight experts thought was the 2nd coming) Kessler & Hopkins (Yeh he was 43 bla bla bla, tell that to Pavlik)Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoThing is these were risky fights at the time he didn't reshedule he fought someone else he pulled out on Johnson twice to the point Johnson thought he was just wasting his time and went on and fought someone else. He wanted Woods vs Johnson winner they had a war Woods won and Calzaghe didn't pursue it and Hobson and Warren both said they were happy for the fight to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
Are we seriously supposed top think that fighting Vanderpool or Jonshon (who had already lost about 9 fights) or Tarver would make any of you haters say Calzaghe had a better resume :confused:
BIG H stop banging the Lacy drum he had trouble with Omar Sheika and Vitali Tyspko he was never the 2nd coming in reality both Tarver and Johnson would have beaten him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
So what does that make Roy Jones and Hopkins who refuse to fight outside of the states .( yes I know jones's last fight was in Oz)
So you tipped Calzaghe to win then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysonbruno
'Had trouble' is a broad term. He was never in danger of losing prior to JC and the Tyspko fight was after JC and I think everybody surely agrees that Lacy (as crap as you think he was) is nowhere the same fighter post Calzaghe.
That someone else was Roy Jones. Calzaghe getting injured was the GREATEST thing that ever happened to Johnson. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoThing is these were risky fights at the time he didn't reshedule he fought someone else he pulled out on Johnson twice to the point Johnson thought he was just wasting his time and went on and fought someone else. He wanted Woods vs Johnson winner they had a war Woods won and Calzaghe didn't pursue it and Hobson and Warren both said they were happy for the fight to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
I don't think Calzaghe's resume is the greatest ever by any means, but i certainly don't think he ducked anybody. The division was just poor. Check out B-Hop's 10 years at Middleweight if you want to see a sh1t resume
I think he should of fought Antwun Echols though, considering he did fight the fighter Antwun Echols just beat in a wild slugfest aka Charles Brewer. But thats the thing i will agree with, he didn't really avoid anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
But then again who was there really worth avoiding ? he should of moved up years ago because he did say he did have a hard time making weight.
But as for the fighters he could of fought ?
Markus Beyer = Defeated Richie Woodhall flooring him 3 times, he had the WBC version of the title, Joe Calzaghe fights the loser Richie Woodhall, instead of Markus Beyer.
Glen Johnson = After he beat Eric Harding and Clinton Woods, would of been a good time to face him. Or when he beat Roy Jones Jr and Antonio Tarver.
Sven Ottke = I know people say well Sven Ottke wouldn't fight outside of Germany, but if Joe Calzaghe really was that worried about not getting fights, he should of just gone to Germany and beat Sven Ottke. And he would of beaten him whether it was in Germany or on the moon.
Dariusz Michalczweski = A great fight at Light Heavyweight, this could of happened at any time.
Anthony Mundine = I think this fight could of happened at some point, not really sure when though but surely it could of been made ?
Roy Jones Jr = At Light Heavyweight.
Antonio Tarver = At Light Heavyweight.
Eric Harding = After he had a good showing against Roy Jones Jr.
Fabrice Tiozzo = After he beat Silvio Branco or Dariusz Michalczweski.
Bruno Girard = After he beat Byron Mitchell or Lou Del Valle.
Im not saying he avoided any of these fighters, but he did miss out on some good fights which he could of made happen. If he would of took more risks.
Tysonbruno has written off Lacy as bascially useless yet is now claiming Calzaghe was scared to fight Vanderpool - a Lacy KO victim
:vd:
Yes years later im sure When calzaghe was going to fight Vanderpool it was before Hopkins fought him;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Yes and everyone mentions what an outstanding win Vanderpool is on Hopkins resume. Just like you would have given Calzaghe huge respect for beating him :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoYes years later im sure When calzaghe was going to fight Vanderpool it was before Hopkins fought him;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Your argument is toilet. ;D
Good posts, ICE, but only Jones or Michalczweski would've enhanced his resume and they were not in his weight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think he should of fought Antwun Echols though, considering he did fight the fighter Antwun Echols just beat in a wild slugfest aka Charles Brewer. But thats the thing i will agree with, he didn't really avoid anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
But then again who was there really worth avoiding ? he should of moved up years ago because he did say he did have a hard time making weight.
But as for the fighters he could of fought ?
Markus Beyer = Defeated Richie Woodhall flooring him 3 times, he had the WBC version of the title, Joe Calzaghe fights the loser Richie Woodhall, instead of Markus Beyer.
Glen Johnson = After he beat Eric Harding and Clinton Woods, would of been a good time to face him. Or when he beat Roy Jones Jr and Antonio Tarver.
Sven Ottke = I know people say well Sven Ottke wouldn't fight outside of Germany, but if Joe Calzaghe really was that worried about not getting fights, he should of just gone to Germany and beat Sven Ottke. And he would of beaten him whether it was in Germany or on the moon.
Dariusz Michalczweski = A great fight at Light Heavyweight, this could of happened at any time.
Anthony Mundine = I think this fight could of happened at some point, not really sure when though but surely it could of been made ?
Roy Jones Jr = At Light Heavyweight.
Antonio Tarver = At Light Heavyweight.
Eric Harding = After he had a good showing against Roy Jones Jr.
Fabrice Tiozzo = After he beat Silvio Branco or Dariusz Michalczweski.
Bruno Girard = After he beat Byron Mitchell or Lou Del Valle.
Im not saying he avoided any of these fighters, but he did miss out on some good fights which he could of made happen. If he would of took more risks.
See Fenster your getting the wrong end of the stick vanderpool was mentioned by me when asked who Calzaghe had pulled out against so think on;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYes and everyone mentions what an outstanding win Vanderpool is on Hopkins resume. Just like you would have given Calzaghe huge respect for beating him :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoYes years later im sure When calzaghe was going to fight Vanderpool it was before Hopkins fought him;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Your argument is toilet. ;D
OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoSee Fenster your getting the wrong end of the stick vanderpool was mentioned by me when asked who Calzaghe had pulled out against so think on;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYes and everyone mentions what an outstanding win Vanderpool is on Hopkins resume. Just like you would have given Calzaghe huge respect for beating him :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysonbruno
Your argument is toilet. ;D
Calzaghe pulled out against Brian Magee too. The WBO wouldn't sanction it.
So there's another great fighter Calzaghe ducked.
I think a win over Tarver and Johnson, would of been good for his record aswell. Especially as i said after Johnson beat Jones, Tarver, or after Tarver beat Jones or revenged his loss to Johnson. I just think personally he should of moved up, i remember for quite a few years he said he struggled making weight. And he was going to move up but it never happened until it was too late, he might of lost but i think he would of still got more respect, but thats just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HGood posts, ICE, but only Jones or Michalczweski would've enhanced his resume and they were not in his weight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think he should of fought Antwun Echols though, considering he did fight the fighter Antwun Echols just beat in a wild slugfest aka Charles Brewer. But thats the thing i will agree with, he didn't really avoid anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimboogie
But then again who was there really worth avoiding ? he should of moved up years ago because he did say he did have a hard time making weight.
But as for the fighters he could of fought ?
Markus Beyer = Defeated Richie Woodhall flooring him 3 times, he had the WBC version of the title, Joe Calzaghe fights the loser Richie Woodhall, instead of Markus Beyer.
Glen Johnson = After he beat Eric Harding and Clinton Woods, would of been a good time to face him. Or when he beat Roy Jones Jr and Antonio Tarver.
Sven Ottke = I know people say well Sven Ottke wouldn't fight outside of Germany, but if Joe Calzaghe really was that worried about not getting fights, he should of just gone to Germany and beat Sven Ottke. And he would of beaten him whether it was in Germany or on the moon.
Dariusz Michalczweski = A great fight at Light Heavyweight, this could of happened at any time.
Anthony Mundine = I think this fight could of happened at some point, not really sure when though but surely it could of been made ?
Roy Jones Jr = At Light Heavyweight.
Antonio Tarver = At Light Heavyweight.
Eric Harding = After he had a good showing against Roy Jones Jr.
Fabrice Tiozzo = After he beat Silvio Branco or Dariusz Michalczweski.
Bruno Girard = After he beat Byron Mitchell or Lou Del Valle.
Im not saying he avoided any of these fighters, but he did miss out on some good fights which he could of made happen. If he would of took more risks.
See so your admitting that Brian Magee is basically rubbish yet Calzaghe was going to fight him and would have done had not been for Mario Veit kicking up a fuss Calzaghe what a legend lol;D Calzaghe one of the most protected and guided fighters ever thats all he is and all he ever was FACT.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterOK.Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoSee Fenster your getting the wrong end of the stick vanderpool was mentioned by me when asked who Calzaghe had pulled out against so think on;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Calzaghe pulled out against Brian Magee too. The WBO wouldn't sanction it.
So there's another great fighter Calzaghe ducked.
OK you've convinced me Calzaghe is crap.
He is the first man to stop Peter Manfredo though. Fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoSee so your admitting that Brian Magee is basically rubbish yet Calzaghe was going to fight him and would have done had not been for Mario Veit kicking up a fuss Calzaghe what a legend lol;D Calzaghe one of the most protected and guided fighters ever thats all he is and all he ever was FACT.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterOK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysonbruno
Calzaghe pulled out against Brian Magee too. The WBO wouldn't sanction it.
So there's another great fighter Calzaghe ducked.
you dont care much for british fighters do you?
You should PM elterrible, you 2 would get on great!!
The bigger fights were at Light Heavy I agree. By the same Token B-Hop should've moved up from Middle for the same reason, he could clearly been comfortable at 175Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think a win over Tarver and Johnson, would of been good for his record aswell. Especially as i said after Johnson beat Jones, Tarver, or after Tarver beat Jones or revenged his loss to Johnson. I just think personally he should of moved up, i remember for quite a few years he said he struggled making weight. And he was going to move up but it never happened until it was too late, he might of lost but i think he would of still got more respect, but thats just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG HGood posts, ICE, but only Jones or Michalczweski would've enhanced his resume and they were not in his weight division.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I think if you read the name of the thread it says it all.
IRRATIONAL
Can this stupid thread be moved to the spam board because its a wast of time and lowers the tone of Saddoboxing in general.
I do but only good ones;)Quote:
Originally Posted by hattonthehammerQuote:
Originally Posted by TysonbrunoSee so your admitting that Brian Magee is basically rubbish yet Calzaghe was going to fight him and would have done had not been for Mario Veit kicking up a fuss Calzaghe what a legend lol;D Calzaghe one of the most protected and guided fighters ever thats all he is and all he ever was FACT.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
you dont care much for british fighters do you?
You should PM elterrible, you 2 would get on great!!
I totally agree. And although this thread has nothing to do with Hopkins, we really don't need an irrational hate thread for Hopkins as well now do we? ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by BIG HThe bigger fights were at Light Heavy I agree. By the same Token B-Hop should've moved up from Middle for the same reason, he could clearly been comfortable at 175Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think a win over Tarver and Johnson, would of been good for his record aswell. Especially as i said after Johnson beat Jones, Tarver, or after Tarver beat Jones or revenged his loss to Johnson. I just think personally he should of moved up, i remember for quite a few years he said he struggled making weight. And he was going to move up but it never happened until it was too late, he might of lost but i think he would of still got more respect, but thats just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Great points of both sides though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tysonbruno
Though I don't hate Calzaghe, In truth I find him to be a better fighter then given credit for so many years by everyone myself included....
I did get a kick out of the threads title