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Agreed, Fenster.
And while he never beat any elite guys during his prime some of those wins are better than people give Mike credit for. Larry Holmes was old, etc., etc., but yet he was able to beat Mercer four years later. And went the distance with Holyfield. And I'm not sure what that whole "glove caught in the ropes" excuse was all about, if anything Larry probably saw the writing on the wall and was looking for a way out.
Yes but you cannot judge what one fighter does against anothers common opponent in the way you have above. Evander would have always beaten Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
You saying look what Tyson did to Holmes and then point out that Holmes wen tthe distance with Evander means nothing. Look what Frazier did to Ali in the first fight and then look what Foreman did to Frazier. Doesn't mean Foreman is going to destroy Ali does it??
You mean he purposely got his glove caught in the ropes? Hmm.. it does sort of make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Quality of opposition is totally overrated. I agree. Fact.
I think its the most likely explanation. Sometimes its easy to over think things and miss what's right in front of you, Occam's Razor and such.
As far as Tyson-Holyfield, it just wasn't a prime Tyson, maybe Holyfield was a bad style matchup but we'll never know
Ali would outbox Tyson's head off, Mike would maybe have scored a knockdown but Ali would get right up and continue busting him up making Tyson frustrated and quit by the 8thQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
Foreman would use his size and weight and force Mike back, Tyson is one of the hardest punchers in the division, but IMO big George IS the hardest punching HW ever, he'd throw that heavy jab and keep Tyson at bay, blocking off any of Mike's shot's upstairs with his cross armed defense, and eventually would land enough big right hands to keep Tyson down
Tyson/Frazier would be the closest of the 3, and still Frazier was so relentless i don't think Tyson would be able to impose himself on Joe, he'd rock him, but he'd pull himself together and give as good as he could get
Mike barely could go 12 no way in hell he'd make it 15 especially against the likes of Ali, Foreman, or Frazier
What are you on about now?
Mike had excellent stamina when he was young, he sparred 15 rounds a day against 3 or 4 different partners, he was extremly fit and always put alot of effort in his fights which is why he was such a massive hit in the Eighties and still now, people loved that he tried his hardest to hurt someone and had the physical capabilities to make massive 18 stone men quiver like little girls.
Mike had the possibilities of beating every fighter that ever lived, he was that good, you wouldnt bet your house that any fighter could deffinitly beat Mike, he had such speed and power he could have dropped em at any point, even against Douglas when he was getting beat and was knackered he pulled out a knockdown that had it happened earlier in the round he could well have stopped Buster.
could have, should have, would have doesn't mean shit, he was also rocked by lesser opponents like Pinklon Thomas and Tony TuckerQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
and are you kidding me, if Tyson wasn't having his way with a guy or if the guy didn't fear his ass Tyson was done by round 6, Holyfield I case and point, and i can guarantee you that neither Ali, Foreman, and much less Frazier would have feared or been intimidated by Tyson
Larry Holmes went through a bad patch during the mid 80's, he didn't look good vs Carl Williams or Michael Spinks. Plus he was ring rusty, and didn't have alot of time to train for Mike Tyson, i think the early 40's version of Larry Holmes was better than the late 30's Larry Holmes.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Let's be honest here. Mike way underestimated Holyfield (his own fault) because everyone thought Holyfield was washed up, including Evander. He didn't train and thought he could clear Holy out with one punch. And in the rematch Evander was using his head until Mike did the unspeakable. Had they fought pre-prison Mike wouldn't have thought of him as washed up and it would have been a completely different story, even if he did wind up losing still. And if a faded Tyson could win a round against Lewis, he could win several more in his prime if not take the fight. Tyson in his prime kills Lewis in that time, but that's simply because he'd been a pro longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuWell he'd have run into Evander whether he stayed with Rooney or not and the result would have been the same. Demolition of Tyson. Evander and Lewis are the only true world class guys he fought who were genuine HW's and he was destroyed by both.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I see this as a very close fight because #1 Liston demolished Floyd Patterson who had the very same style as Tyson albeit he was smaller and maybe had quicker but less powerful hands #2 Tyson worked over guys like Bruno and Bonecrusher Smith both of whom were lackluster versions of Liston BUT Tyson also got hurt in both those fights.
On one hand I see Liston smacking the crap out of Tyson like he did vs Patterson and on the other hand I see Tyson (having a far better chin than Floyd) getting rocked but coming back to stop Liston after Sonny had tired maybe round 5-7.
Both were big punchers, I highly doubt it would go the distance
Stop bringing up the same tired old shiit about Mike being a bully and when Leiws and Holyfield stood up to him he crumbled, oh and Douglas.
The version of Tyson they fought had a bunch of cleless waankers training him, he wasnt sparring or running or doing anything that made him great.
To judge Mike on what happened after he came out of prison is like judging Ali on what happened in the last few years of his career, it was a totally different Ali.
Ill judge Mike on the best version, on the best versions capabilities.
The washed up untrained version wan a round against Lewis and ate all his big punches till he tired and Lewis pushed him down, only his chin got him that far, against Holyfield pretty much the same.
I did like the aggressive spurt just before he bit Holyfield, he threw a few combinations and was landing well and Holyfieldstood back and looked bemused, as if to say "fuck me, I havent experienced nothin like this before" that and the Golota fight are the only times I remember seeing tyson putting some care and agression in his work, like he wanted just hurt them.
At Mikes best he can beat anyone.
...so you're choosing to focus on the MYTH of Tyson rather than the reality of the fighter?
https://youtu.be/LgThInYcqnw?si=vbzwJ6E1z0_kluiT
Son and his whole era looks very basic and flawed as the video shows, which clearly guys never have seen other era's in full apparently, or don't compare as I have here, what was the basis for ever picking Son when he never even fought guys as advanced as the even the no names who were way more advanced in the 80s? see how it doesn't make any sense picking him people online aren't very sane ,
I just never have understood picking obviously very outdated people as if the people they fought were as advanced when they clearly weren't, as if video doesn't exist showing they weren't as advanced,very odd
It's fact liston best win was a lhw floyd, I could've put a video of basically a lhw mercer faced who was way more advanced than Floyd was and how Mercer destroyed him way easier than Liston did Floyd, see how this doesn't make any sense as I said at all, people clearly pick son from legend status alone, he never fought guys as advanced as even the average guy in 80s-90s, let alone mid carders
Is English your first language?
Why are you digging up these old threads?
It is Sonny not Son.
Are you sane?
Is English your first language?You don't correct me on anything, son, like I said.and I'm exposing the truth. Don't ask me any more odd questions when you can't even see good and aren't sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
So no, English is not your first language and you are not sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe smithIs English your first language?You don't correct me on anything, son, like I said.and I'm exposing the truth. Don't ask me any more odd questions when you can't even see good and aren't sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The only thing you are exposing is your own stupidity.
Keep trolling messed up in the head person you won't stop me from doing my mission, you can't alter footage to make fighters more advancedQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterSo no, English is not your first language and you are not sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe smithIs English your first language?You don't correct me on anything, son, like I said. and I'm exposing the truth. Don't ask me any more odd questions when you can't even see good and aren't sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The only thing you are exposing is your own stupidity.
you are making an assumption here on how people approach their mythical matchupsQuote:
Originally Posted by joe smith
you are making an assumption here on how people approach their mythical matchupsQuote:
Originally Posted by joe smithpeople clearly pick son from legend status aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by TICyou are making an assumption here on how people approach their mythical matchupsQuote:
Originally Posted by joe smith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgThInYcqnw&t=51sQuote:
Originally Posted by TICyou are making an assumption here on how people approach their mythical matchupsQuote:
Originally Posted by joe smithpeople clearly pick son from legend status aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by TICyou are making an assumption here on how people approach their mythical matchupsQuote:
Originally Posted by joe smith
Son and his whole era looks very basic and flawed as the video shows, which clearly guys never have seen other era's in full apparently, or don't compare as I have here, what was the basis for ever picking Son when he never even fought guys as advanced as the even the no names who were way more advanced in the 80s? see how it doesn't make any sense picking him people online aren't very sane ,
I just never have understood picking obviously very outdated people as if the people they fought were as advanced when they clearly weren't, as if video doesn't exist showing they weren't as advanced,very odd
It's fact liston best win was a lhw floyd, I could've put a video of basically a lhw mercer faced who was way more advanced than Floyd was and how Mercer destroyed him way easier than Liston did Floyd, see how this doesn't make any sense as I said at all, people clearly pick son from legend status alone, he never fought guys as advanced as even the average guy in 80s-90s, let alone mid carders
you are making an assumption here on how people approach their mythical matchups