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The haye klit fights will happen eventually. They have too. No one is ducking no one. Haye just went the smart way about everything. And in a sport where where u can be killed legally, I see nothing wrong with that.it's made the potential clash even bigger anyway
Forgive me if people have actually said it, but I am yet to see anybody seriously say that Haye would 'easily and definitely beats the Klitschkos easy'Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Wait a minute. The people on this board are saying that Haye is the savior of the HW division and that he easily and definitely beats the Klitschkos easy. So he doesn't need to prove himself by taking on the Klitschkos?Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3It makes no sense to say that Haye needs to prove himself at HW, if everytime he has a HW fight someone going to come along and say that the win doesnt mean anything, and he is a manufactured champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
And the issue about pulling out of the fights with the Klitschkos is debatable. Other people have already debated this and I dont want to touch it, because it will not get us anywhere. But to say that Haye "punked out" is to stating your opinion, not necessarily fact.
The only real proof will come when the fight with a Klitschko happens. So why cant people just be patient and let it happen? Just because it didnt happen does not mean that it will not happen. (ie Mayweather Pacqiauo)
Most people here are saying he's the HW champ? So shouldn't the HW champ prove it in the ring against the Klitschko who have dominated the division for a while now?
@Fenster
Pac may be the last man at 140 and we all know he's not fighting there again, but it is generally recognized that Bradley is the defacto "man" at 140 right now, the guy to beat. Surely you're not suggesting that Con boy is more legitimate than Bradley at 140?
And Haye at the HW division just like Khan at 140 is a manufactured champ. People should Stop bringing up his cruiserweight reign, it means didley squat at HW. By that logic we might as well used Pac's reign at 130 to say that he's accomplished a lot at Welterweight.
Mark my words, Haye will be fighting a Eddie Chambers, Adamek, guys that are iffy at HW. He's going to avoid the Klits for the next 2 years and hopes that they either lose, become shot, or in serious decline to take them on. He for sure ain't taking on a Arreola either or even a Povetkin.
BTW, it's kind of funny that many on this board has been calling either Pac or Mayweather as cherry picking fighters that don't take real challenges, but for Haye everything's a-okay with the Klitschko debacle and his little foray into the HW division fighting guys like Barret, Ruiz, etc.
To be honest I dont think Haye is particulaly great but attacking him for saying his achievements at cruiser mean dick and then saying he hasnt fought anybody worth mentioning in his new division by your logic should surely go hand in hand? If what he did at cruiser doesn't mean anything he should have to build up his heavyweight status... Is that not what he's doing?
Ignore the shit he and his fans say, do you not agree that he's going about things as he should if what he's done outside of Heavyweight doesn't mean anything?
Well basically the only options he could get from either Klitschko was a fight, in Germany, where Haye only takes home the UK TV money (Setanta), and where there was an immediate re-match clause + a fight against the other Klit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
That's why he went after the Heavyweight title. Especially when Setanta went bust. Not sure how that equates to him taking the easy road. He wants to fight a Klit but he also wants decent terms and decent money for it. The Klits seem to want everything on there terms because Haye apparently has no bargaining power. Now he has a title, and he has massive popularity (in the UK), he brings much more to the table.
So just because the WBA title holder is "extremely popular in England" the Klitschko's should get the shit end of the stick? Last time I checked Wlad was THE MAN in the division ergo he is entitled to his fair share and if anyone wants to take his place they can earn good money fighting Wlad and better money if they beat him. Why is that not clicking with you guys? When in the history of boxing has the challenger made more than the champion? But I guess the guy is obviously not ducking Wlad...fucking SHAMELESS fanboyism from you Brits, you have 0 idea about business!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Pac v Hatton
Gatti v Mayweather
Khan v Kotelnik
Tyson v Bruno
etc
etc
etc
We could be hear all day...
As big as "your boy" is in England, Wlad is bigger in Germany.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Not to sure about that to be honest big in what way?? Haye made 7.6 million dollers v Valuev and 800k PPV buys, has Wlad ever been on PPV??
I agree. Your analysis is pretty good, but to point this out after the most impressive win of his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3Your timing with this topic just come off as sour grapes for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Haye wins a fight and now you feel the need to start a little Haye hating eh?
Champs, manufactured or not are still champs. If it was so easy then everyone would do it now wouldn't they? Ah right, but they can't.
So beating up a 38 year old John Ruiz who hadn't been performing at HIS top level for quite some time qualifies as this dudes biggest win?
LAME!
And you think since this dude beat Valuev and Ruiz he's a true champ and not protected at all? And that he has any chance at beating Wladimir? That's funny, considering who in the recent past and in Ruiz's prime gave him very difficult fights. Andrew Golota anyone?
Haye had a very good amateur pedigree, as a pro he is actually quite a big guy now and grown into the heavyweights nicely, In any other era, he would be regarded as a big heavy.
I think he has slick boxing skills, bags of self confidence and he can punch.
On the negative, I think he is fragile ...... so he makes for an interesting fight every time.
Not sure about him being manufactured ...... some people seem to forget how Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson rose to the top so quickly - huge hype, connected handlers, carefully picked early opponents.
I would say that haye has a chance against Wlad. Wlad is a bit chinny himself and whover lands first wins, though I think Wlad's height, reach and technique would make him the favourite to win.
Assuming that Vitali doesnt get old overnight, I think he's just too big and durable for Haye.
Man that is a little unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I havn't read the rest of the thread so I do apologise if people have already mentioned this but Haye is better than Con in so many ways.
Firstly, to be manufactured, surely you have to have things your way all the time. Haye has been in to other peoples back yards and taken the Cruiser and now the World heavyweight title. Con boy has done nothing of the sort.
Haye's opposition has been so much better too. Fragomeni, Mormeck, Macarenelli (yeah I know he sucks balls but he was the other guy at cruiser at the time), Valuev and no doubt in my mind he wants the Klitschko's at some point.
He's fought quality opponents for being a British fighter...how many other Brits at 23 fights can say they've had some of those quality names and fights on their CV?
Hardly any - Haye has not been manufactured. Hatton/Calzaghe/Con/Eubank/Benn were manufactured...Haye has taken a riskier and faster route than all of them.
Now he's "a" world heavyweight champion after only a few fights when a lot of people said he wouldn't be able to handle it in there (myself included) yet he has given jelly legs to a guy who has barely been wobbled and stopped a guy who has only been put away once in his career. Not bad.
I was definitely a Haye-ter a few fights ago...I thought he had a big mouth without backing it up but you have to give credit where it's due. I'll give him full respect if the fights with the Klits end up happening..win or lose.
But comparing him to Con?? No way...2 different kettles of fish
I don't know why people say that haye doesn't want to be in the ring with either klitscho, IMO it's a very daft thing to say. He challanged Wlad face to face, he would have already faced wlad if it hadn't been for a a back injury and now he's trying to get a fight on at wembley stadium. If you didn't want to fight someone why would you open negotiations with them to fight in the biggest football stadium in england?
Did amir khan move up a weight class and then fight the best in the division? No. Does he look like he's going to fight the best in the division anytime soon? no.
Haye moved up and imediately challenged the klits and when that did come off he then fought another champ that was 7 stone heavier than him, and then his first defence was against the number one contender for that title.
Haye and Khan are worlds apart. That much is obvious.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlthugzMan that is a little unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I havn't read the rest of the thread so I do apologise if people have already mentioned this but Haye is better than Con in so many ways.
Firstly, to be manufactured, surely you have to have things your way all the time. Haye has been in to other peoples back yards and taken the Cruiser and now the World heavyweight title. Con boy has done nothing of the sort.
Haye's opposition has been so much better too. Fragomeni, Mormeck, Macarenelli (yeah I know he sucks balls but he was the other guy at cruiser at the time), Valuev and no doubt in my mind he wants the Klitschko's at some point.
He's fought quality opponents for being a British fighter...how many other Brits at 23 fights can say they've had some of those quality names and fights on their CV?
Hardly any - Haye has not been manufactured. Hatton/Calzaghe/Con/Eubank/Benn were manufactured...Haye has taken a riskier and faster route than all of them.
Now he's "a" world heavyweight champion after only a few fights when a lot of people said he wouldn't be able to handle it in there (myself included) yet he has given jelly legs to a guy who has barely been wobbled and stopped a guy who has only been put away once in his career. Not bad.
I was definitely a Haye-ter a few fights ago...I thought he had a big mouth without backing it up but you have to give credit where it's due. I'll give him full respect if the fights with the Klits end up happening..win or lose.
But comparing him to Con?? No way...2 different kettles of fish
This is a silly thread.... Manufactured = protected... General Bulldog do you even know who Carl Thompson is? ;D
Anyways. As much as I agree that Haye is vulnerable to a few good men. For me, it's a case of 'what's new?'
Haye is and has always been a VERY exciting but chinny banger. As 95% of his fights have proven.
So again, I ask. Whats new? Not alot. Just that your a bunch of Haye hating mugs. Fact. ;D
I just hope that Haye will prove all these doubters wrong. I'd love to see him unify the titles.
I hear that Golden Boy want him to fight Hopkins next.:smilie_ahole:
not had time to real all this thread but calling Haye another Khan is a fucking insult.
I would pick Haye to beat any other fighter in top ten heavies at moment - just not the Klitschkos - though he has a chance particularly against Wlad.
Hold on silly buggers.
What was the injury khan had halfway through his training camp for maidana? Oh hang on he never called out Maidana to his face and never signed to fight him. And will he call out maidana after malignaggi? Nope
Can we stop the bullshit nonsence please?
Haye is an manufactured champ at HW. When you beat guys like Barret, Valuev, and 38 year old Ruiz, that's considered to be an awesome HW resume?
People are now acting like Ruiz was an elite guy. Haye big mouth, can't back it up. When you make t shirts with decapitated heads and talk about another man's family and back out of 2 fights against them, what do you expect people to say?
And I thought it was funny that half of this forum blamed the Klit bros for David Haye backing out of the fight twice, you know the so called bad contract or whatever.
So by your logic then I suppose anyone of the WBA champs (incl former champs) is manufactured:Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Ruiz, Valuev, Chagaev
But there is no manufactured thread on these guys? Why not?
Those 3 guys you mentioned are just as bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3So by your logic then I suppose anyone of the WBA champs (incl former champs) is manufactured:Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Ruiz, Valuev, Chagaev
But there is no manufactured thread on these guys? Why not?
But here's the difference between Haye and those 3. No one said they would beat the Klit bros easily and definitely. No one called those 3 guys the next Evander Holyfield. And no one called those 3 guys the next great HW champion that will clean out the division easily. And 1 last thing, they were not called the savior of the HW division.
Big enough difference for you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
He's british get over it.
There should be a ban on posters attempting to do these VD-esque threads like these. He gets the balance right, so at least if you don't agree you at least get something funny out of it. Now whenever I read these kind of threads, I just feel disappointed.
This is like turning up to see a Manny Pacquiao fight & getting to watch Mark Melligen instead.
Anyway, no Haye isn't manufactured. You could accuse almost any of the hyped Brits of recent years (Hatton, Calzaghe, Khan) of being manufactured and taking weak opposition, but you just can't say that about Haye. He's always taken tough challenges and chances, and with confidence I can say he will have fought a Klitschko by the end of the year.
I disagree. I beat up Valuev last week. Had him crying and everything. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by ninjaspy3Your timing with this topic just come off as sour grapes for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Haye wins a fight and now you feel the need to start a little Haye hating eh?
Champs, manufactured or not are still champs. If it was so easy then everyone would do it now wouldn't they? Ah right, but they can't.
To be honest i'm not sure of either guy really...haye had even me going for a bit. But now that i look back i don't think he ever intended on fighting either klitch. I think the talk and t shirts were more meant to help him sell lesser fights against valuev, ruiz, arreolla, chambers people like that. I actually feel kinda bad for doubting the brothers for not fighting haye when he was just using thier names the same way people use floyd. But hey it worked so can't knock him for it. I know everyone hates khan but he's another i'm not sure about. He does have some potential there and one loss can be better for some guys than bad.
Him being British has nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
He's british get over it.
Half of this forum said he was the next Evander Holyfield. He is the savior of the HW division, he beats the Klit Bros easily because Wlad is chinny, and Vitali is 38 and old and doesn't look good in his past fights. Was these not the arguments? And some even think he has just as good a resume or better than the Klit bros. Oh yeah, the Klit bros are afraid of Haye because they supposedly priced themselves out by offering Haye an unfair contract.
The truth is David Haye has not taken on great opposition at HW by fighting Valuev, 38 year old Ruiz, Monte Barret. The guy avoided the Klit bros, not once but twice.
I Really Don't Get This Manufactured Crap Very Boxer Has To Learn His Trade & David Has & Is Doing This Better Than Most Self Promotion Is Not A Sin It Is All Part Of The Same Plan To Maximise Earning Power.
He Has Not Ducked Anyone He Has Stormed The Heavyweight Division After Cleaning Up The Crusiers Just What More Does The Guy Have To Do To Stop Your Whinging BULLDOG
Become a yank probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by telboy66
Haye has done better than I thought He would. Now I wouldnt Bet against Him.
Haye has done more than Khan. Haye was undisputed cw kingpin. At HW he is still a question mark but he is more proven than Khan.
So if it's not about his nationality whats your problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogHim being British has nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HornfingerQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
He's british get over it.
Half of this forum said he was the next Evander Holyfield. He is the savior of the HW division, he beats the Klit Bros easily because Wlad is chinny, and Vitali is 38 and old and doesn't look good in his past fights. Was these not the arguments? And some even think he has just as good a resume or better than the Klit bros. Oh yeah, the Klit bros are afraid of Haye because they supposedly priced themselves out by offering Haye an unfair contract.
The truth is David Haye has not taken on great opposition at HW by fighting Valuev, 38 year old Ruiz, Monte Barret. The guy avoided the Klit bros, not once but twice.
He dominated his previous weightclass and now he's moved up and beaten everyone put in front of him, called out wlad to his face and would have fought him already if he hadn't got injured. And now he's looking to fight Wlad at wembley or in america or whereever.
Now please. Stop talking crap.
Personally after recently watching vids of both wlad and vit I think Vit would be the easier fight for him.
Um he talks shit non-stop but then when those fights are offered to him he balks at taking them because he's a punk b*tch. Sure we all understand the Setanta deal, but after that was resolved the dude made the logical decision to go for the least respected/most easily accessable belt. Good for him BUT if that was the goal all along then why make all the fuss with the trash talk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornfinger
I don't care if the guy was from the fucking moon, you don't talk shit like that and then run away....but far be it from me to try and explain to you fans why it's wrong to talk shit and then get the hell out of dodge.