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Believe me, if I was interested in abusing what little power I have you would have been banned a long time ago :).Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
...I caught on since PacStraightLeft did it tooQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I just don't trust mods is all......bunch of power hungry jerks IMO
;)
Yeah who are we fighting? Al Qaeda and the taliban. Ohh but my guess is you think we shouldn't be fighting the Taliban, correct? Yet the Taliban are a breed of pure evil (this isn't right wing media talking, this is the truth) that people like me and you can't even begin to comprehend. Heinous, heinous people who do awful things and live life completely backwards, yet since they weren't the ones who ran the planes into the building, I guess we have no business interfering with their way of business.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesShould never have gone there in the first place. There were other ways to go after Al Qaeda and those ways should have been exhausted before any invasion of another country. That's why we are are there 9 years later fighting who exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...well I guess we can leave Afghanistan ooooh some 9 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
miles....I don't hate you or anything I just think you are looking at this in a flawed manner and that's below you, and the fact that you don't recognize it is just sad.
Likewise, I don't hate you. We usually oppose each other on issues such as this, but I see no harm in pointing out the similarities in how supposedly superior cultures are allowed to steal the land of indigenous populations. Or even bomb others without due cause.
But let me guess, we played a huge hand into putting them into power, that was going to be your next argument right? Why does that matter though? We have put evil people into power before and had to remove them, the Taliban need to be eradicated. This is a simple fact. I believe this with all of my heart, there is no other way to go about dealing with them.
Iraq is a cluster fuck, I know this. Our military planning going into Afghanistan kind of sucked. That's a bureaucracy problem, we are not the bad guys in Afghanistan. Iraq is more murky, we were WRONG to go in there and because of that we have the blood of a country's civil war on our hands. Still, we aren't the only bad guys their either and if you truly believe we are then you are simply detached from reality. I guess you aren't fully to blame as what you are reading is from anti-Imperialists who are actually just anti-Americans and people who have likely never stepped foot in Iraq or Afghanistan in their lives. It's made clear by your posts too.
The only people in Britain that regard themselves as European are those playing in the Ryder Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Well I don't really have much to say, but a chance to wind Miles up cannot be ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
First off, you say the Jews took the land from its owners. They didn't. The people who lived there did not own the land. It was originally a territory of the Ottaman Empire and was then taken over by the British, who set up a mandate to legally give the land to the Jews. They have MORE of a legitimate claim to their land then virtually any other nation as it was ratified in a court of law :)
Second there were no indigenous people. There never was an indigenous Palestine. They comprise many races, Greek, Egyptain, Syrian, Bosnian ,Druzes etc. In fact in 1920 over 50 different languages were being spoken in Palestine.
Thirdly, the Jews didn't expel the Palestinians the Arabs did! They wanted them out of the way so they wouldn't interfere with their Jew slaughterings.
Unfortunately that war didn't go so well for the Arabs and they lost horribly. The Jews understandably were rather distrusting of their neighbours from that point on.
#1 NO, we should have just stayed there in the 1980's and all this Al Queda, Taliban bullshit would have been avoided had we just given the Afghani people a hand in building their country after they got rid of the Soviets.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
#2 Once again my issue with the way you are viewing this is that you judge the PAST by the morals and values we have TODAY. That is a flawed logic because the way we look at things today is incredibly different than the reality of life in the past. Now if we're talking recent past then there may be a little room for you to look at those events the way you're already looking at things.
1 - That might have been a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong#1 NO, we should have just stayed there in the 1980's and all this Al Queda, Taliban bullshit would have been avoided had we just given the Afghani people a hand in building their country after they got rid of the Soviets.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
#2 Once again my issue with the way you are viewing this is that you judge the PAST by the morals and values we have TODAY. That is a flawed logic because the way we look at things today is incredibly different than the reality of life in the past. Now if we're talking recent past then there may be a little room for you to look at those events the way you're already looking at things.
2 - I still have to disagree with you. I think that no matter what period you are living in, killing people and stealing their land is always going to be regarded as wrong. Just because it is me stealing the land that in no way justifies that kind of action. It was wrong period. And the fact that we are allowing Israel to do the very same thing today (with less bloodshed) fills me with complete revulsion.
:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
OK so then why the pinpoint hatred on the United States? Why not hate on Spain, England, Portugal, The Netherlands, Germany, etc? Why no hate for China? If you were truly following what you say you're following then you'd hate on everybody and not just the US and Israel.
Why not hate on ancient Empires too? Stupid Egyptians, why the fuck would you use manual labor to build the pyramids? I mean HELLOOOOO machines can do those things better than people you rubes!....do you now see the flaw in your logic?
Of the two wars I do happen to think that Afghanistan has some kind of jusification. However, diving in there as soon as the twin towers hit the floor was rash and foolish. Whence why we are still there. We didn't know the region and miscalculated what we were dealing with. I'm with you in arguing that the Taliban is a nasty piece of work and their mindsets are postively medieval. But those that caused 9-11 were primarily from allies such as Saudi Arabia. The neo-cons were itching to go to war any way they could because war for them means money. And off to war they went. Why not invade a nasty country like Saudi Arabia instead and hold them responsible for 9-11? Hell, why not invade Germany too?Quote:
Originally Posted by amatYeah who are we fighting? Al Qaeda and the taliban. Ohh but my guess is you think we shouldn't be fighting the Taliban, correct? Yet the Taliban are a breed of pure evil (this isn't right wing media talking, this is the truth) that people like me and you can't even begin to comprehend. Heinous, heinous people who do awful things and live life completely backwards, yet since they weren't the ones who ran the planes into the building, I guess we have no business interfering with their way of business.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesShould never have gone there in the first place. There were other ways to go after Al Qaeda and those ways should have been exhausted before any invasion of another country. That's why we are are there 9 years later fighting who exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong...well I guess we can leave Afghanistan ooooh some 9 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
miles....I don't hate you or anything I just think you are looking at this in a flawed manner and that's below you, and the fact that you don't recognize it is just sad.
Likewise, I don't hate you. We usually oppose each other on issues such as this, but I see no harm in pointing out the similarities in how supposedly superior cultures are allowed to steal the land of indigenous populations. Or even bomb others without due cause.
But let me guess, we played a huge hand into putting them into power, that was going to be your next argument right? Why does that matter though? We have put evil people into power before and had to remove them, the Taliban need to be eradicated. This is a simple fact. I believe this with all of my heart, there is no other way to go about dealing with them.
Iraq is a cluster fuck, I know this. Our military planning going into Afghanistan kind of sucked. That's a bureaucracy problem, we are not the bad guys in Afghanistan. Iraq is more murky, we were WRONG to go in there and because of that we have the blood of a country's civil war on our hands. Still, we aren't the only bad guys their either and if you truly believe we are then you are simply detached from reality. I guess you aren't fully to blame as what you are reading is from anti-Imperialists who are actually just anti-Americans and people who have likely never stepped foot in Iraq or Afghanistan in their lives. It's made clear by your posts too.
Yes, America has put evil leaders into power and they have removed many more. However, this doesn't escape the fact that the US has no right to be backing military coups against sovereign governments or to be forcing their economic agenda the world over. How many times has the US government tried to assasinate Castro over the years? The American elite is absolutely bat shit crazy in its rigid determination to impose its will on the world. They will resort to any means possible to make sure resistance is futile. We have seen it time and time again. 9-11 was terrible, but let's look at the reasons why someone would want to do that. It is nothing to do with being jealous of the freedoms granted to US citizens and everything to do with years of resentment at measures imposed on individuals the world over. Evil breeds yet more evil. And in fighting the so called 'war on terror' evil is indeed breeding ever more evil. It's a futile quest and the elite know full well that it has no meaning.
Iraq was/is a clusterfuck. The reasons for war were a blatant lie. The way the media approached it was retarded and irresponsible. The whole war was about expanding the interests of private corporations in the military industrial complex and maintaining a grip on Iraqi oil. The war was not only morally wrong, but illegal. Going by the rules applied at Nuremburg, Bush and Blair should be tried as war criminals. Once again evil breeds evil and I'm sure that as a consequence a lot more people will be wishing for nasty things to happen to America and the UK. You make your own bed as they say. For sure it isn't only America, Britain likes to tag along on these little adventures too.
I don't know what you mean about the people I read being anti American. Klein is certainly very critical of the US, but I don't neccessarily regard that as anti-American. What's she supposed to say? That US foreign policy has spread happiness and joy around the world? Obviously it hasn't. And if you would take the time to read her book 'The shock doctrine' you will see that she has spent time in most of the places where America has spread its ugly tentacles and interviewed a lot of people who suffered during oppressive regimes or witnessed coups and so on. It's a great book and well worth a read. I certainly learned quite a bit. Chomsky is the other one that I read and listen to a lot. Again he is critical of America, but I don't regard him as anti-American. He is usually bang on the money with his observations and backs it all up with evidence.
Just face it, the American elite are a bunch of corrupt shits who are now even turning on their own population. I'm definitely against that kind of behaviour. Otherwise, I regard fellow Americans here as decent chaps, but I see no great problem with pointing out the evil and despotic nature of the corporate and political elites or that the country was built on genocide.
Lyle, my issues are with corporate and political elites. It has nothing to do with the American citizens of today. I have no issues with you Americans, but will for sure point out corruption in those elites and just yesterday added the fact that commiting genocide against native Indians wasn't a very nice thing to do. You and Amat didn't do that, so don't take it like I am condemning you personally. I am not.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong:vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
OK so then why the pinpoint hatred on the United States? Why not hate on Spain, England, Portugal, The Netherlands, Germany, etc? Why no hate for China? If you were truly following what you say you're following then you'd hate on everybody and not just the US and Israel.
Why not hate on ancient Empires too? Stupid Egyptians, why the fuck would you use manual labor to build the pyramids? I mean HELLOOOOO machines can do those things better than people you rubes!....do you now see the flaw in your logic?
For sure each of those countries has their own twisted and bitter history and I'm against all that too. But the influence of those countries is long gone and not really in the news for current discussion. America is the global power in the world today and wields that power in a very twisted way. I am very much against that. If America was doing good things for the world and its own citizenry then there wouldn't really be much to rail against. And actually I did start a thread about a year ago railing against China. And for sure I have said many negative things about Korea and the UK over the years. Israel is another one of my annoyances too. In fact if you were to have a chat with me, you would realise I talk quite a lot about the things I read in books and the media. I have an interest in current affairs and America tends to be part of that.
So again I don't think my logic is particularly flawed.
That's the thing with colonialists. Who were the British to say that the land wasn't actually owned by those Palestinians? To anybody who thinks America is the one that I am always picking on, believe me, Britain with it's colonialist past, is a close number 2!Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWell I don't really have much to say, but a chance to wind Miles up cannot be ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
First off, you say the Jews took the land from its owners. They didn't. The people who lived there did not own the land. It was originally a territory of the Ottaman Empire and was then taken over by the British, who set up a mandate to legally give the land to the Jews. They have MORE of a legitimate claim to their land then virtually any other nation as it was ratified in a court of law :)
Second there were no indigenous people. There never was an indigenous Palestine. They comprise many races, Greek, Egyptain, Syrian, Bosnian ,Druzes etc. In fact in 1920 over 50 different languages were being spoken in Palestine.
Thirdly, the Jews didn't expel the Palestinians the Arabs did! They wanted them out of the way so they wouldn't interfere with their Jew slaughterings.
Unfortunately that war didn't go so well for the Arabs and they lost horribly. The Jews understandably were rather distrusting of their neighbours from that point on.
The people that lived there prior to Israel being created by the UN were the people that had lived there for generation after generation and I regard those as the indigenous population.
Anyway, I know the history of the region Bilbo. It is a sordid and messy one. But regardless, what we have right now is illegal settlement building on territories that are not Israel's. Step by step what remains of Palestine is being taken. Or should I say brick by brick? There is no attempt at peace and this is likely going to continue.
It is criminal and all existing settlements should be eradicated.
When the Jews moved back to Palestine it was virtually a desert. The population was very small. A significant majority of 'indigenous' Palestines actually moved in AFTER the Jews had transformed the landscape and made it habitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThat's the thing with colonialists. Who were the British to say that the land wasn't actually owned by those Palestinians? To anybody who thinks America is the one that I am always picking on, believe me, Britain with it's colonialist past, is a close number 2!Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWell I don't really have much to say, but a chance to wind Miles up cannot be ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
First off, you say the Jews took the land from its owners. They didn't. The people who lived there did not own the land. It was originally a territory of the Ottaman Empire and was then taken over by the British, who set up a mandate to legally give the land to the Jews. They have MORE of a legitimate claim to their land then virtually any other nation as it was ratified in a court of law :)
Second there were no indigenous people. There never was an indigenous Palestine. They comprise many races, Greek, Egyptain, Syrian, Bosnian ,Druzes etc. In fact in 1920 over 50 different languages were being spoken in Palestine.
Thirdly, the Jews didn't expel the Palestinians the Arabs did! They wanted them out of the way so they wouldn't interfere with their Jew slaughterings.
Unfortunately that war didn't go so well for the Arabs and they lost horribly. The Jews understandably were rather distrusting of their neighbours from that point on.
The people that lived there prior to Israel being created by the UN were the people that had lived there for generation after generation and I regard those as the indigenous population.
Anyway, I know the history of the region Bilbo. It is a sordid and messy one. But regardless, what we have right now is illegal settlement building on territories that are not Israel's. Step by step what remains of Palestine is being taken. Or should I say brick by brick? There is no attempt at peace and this is likely going to continue.
It is criminal and all existing settlements should be eradicated.
Your hatred of Jews is bordering on irrational imo and steps very close to anti semitism.
It's clearly not a loss of human life issue with you as the Jewish people have suffered more than any other nation in history down the centuries with holocausts and pogroms an eternal suffering for them. It just seems that Jewish suffering means nothing to you at all and the only people who are truly valuable are those killed by Jews.
China, North Korea, Iran, Russia etc have far far worse track records than Israel yet you never say a thing about them.
When the Israeli soldiers were attacked on the 'love boat' during the flotilla raid and killed some violent, armed thugs in self defence you went mad with rage and demanded justice. Yet when North Korea just casually sunk a South Korean (YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!) killing 46 people over 5 times as many as died in the Gaza flotilla incident, not a word from you. You simply didn't care, not bothered, only Koreans killing Koreans.
Has the Jews done that you would have probably have to have been banned due to the amount of condemnation threads you would have started.
I can't explain it as anything other than an intense hatred for Jews........:-\
Bilbo from DOWNTOWN!
I don't hate Jews, so please let's not go back to that one again. As I said before when it comes to current affairs we a dealing with political and business elites. It is typically these people that I am railing against.
The average Jew who was forced to leave Russia and move to Israel due to economic shock treatments is not the person I loathe. But I certainly resent the elite that have built settlements and gone and put him there. It's just wrong.
Okay, maybe I should start a thread on every story that comes up. That's the thing with an internet board. I only post a certain number of threads, so you don't hear my conversations down the pub where I talk about the news and for sure I have spoken about the Cheonan. Just as I have gone on about all sorts of other things, including my issues with Israel. Out of all the threads I have started over the years, only about 2 have been about Israel. And I had a bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman in someone elses thread because I was still annoyed with the flotilla, but that's about it.
I speak about all sorts of things and for sure I have said critical things of China and Iran. If people post a story I am usually there with my views, but for sure no I've certainly not started a thread on Iran.
But anyway, please quit with the anti-semitism brush. It's too easy to use that and it's just not true. A Jew is just a Jew, some of my favorite writers and thinkers are Jewish. I don't purposely avoid them in some mad quest to avoid all things Jewish. Seriously, I just don't think like that. I am no Hitler and you will never see me doing anything daft like defending the holocaust.
It's also too easy to just brush it aside and claim someone is playing the race card (I hate using that phrase). You say you talk about different things down the pub, that means nothing, what matters is what you talk about on here!Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Everything relates back to the Jews for you, or America, you can turn literally any topic into an anti Israel, anti American speech. I mean come on, this thread was created because you played Red Dead Redemption and the good ole Wild West reminded you how much you hate the Jews and modern America!
You are obsessed! That bit where you say you had a 'bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman', is the rant where you said you wish for Cotto to smash him so you could see the blood dribbling down his chin because he was Jew rant?
There is no coming back from that Miles. When you get mad your true feelings are revealed.
If Israel killed 100 palestinians next week in an attack on Gaze you would be livid. If Hamas fired a missile that killed 100 Israeli's next week you would say 'well it's wrong but what do you expect from such an oppressed people?' and just condone it.
You are nuts. I say this respectfully of course.
By the way what are your views on Barrack authorising the biggest arms deal in the history of the US, selling $39,000,000 worth of planes to Saudi Arabia to prop up their defences against Iran. They have also promised to keep Israel ahead militarily of all the middle east, so a massive new influx of arms and military aid to Israel must be in the pipeline?
We could be about to see those crazy Iranians get a right Holy Holy kicking :)
Yo Miles.
Are you in South Korea, or North Korea? Why don't you focus more on your fucked up neighboring countries first? Start with China or Russia or somethin'.
Wtf man.
Well even going on what I say here, I really don't think there is enough to label me an anti semite. For sure I can be labelled a pretty severe critic of the Israeli elite and the continued repression of the Palestinians, but as an outright hater of Jews? I don't think so and I am not.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's also too easy to just brush it aside and claim someone is playing the race card (I hate using that phrase). You say you talk about different things down the pub, that means nothing, what matters is what you talk about on here!Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Everything relates back to the Jews for you, or America, you can turn literally any topic into an anti Israel, anti American speech. I mean come on, this thread was created because you played Red Dead Redemption and the good ole Wild West reminded you how much you hate the Jews and modern America!
You are obsessed! That bit where you say you had a 'bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman', is the rant where you said you wish for Cotto to smash him so you could see the blood dribbling down his chin because he was Jew rant?
There is no coming back from that Miles. When you get mad your true feelings are revealed.
If Israel killed 100 palestinians next week in an attack on Gaze you would be livid. If Hamas fired a missile that killed 100 Israeli's next week you would say 'well it's wrong but what do you expect from such an oppressed people?' and just condone it.
You are nuts. I say this respectfully of course.
By the way what are your views on Barrack authorising the biggest arms deal in the history of the US, selling $39,000,000 worth of planes to Saudi Arabia to prop up their defences against Iran. They have also promised to keep Israel ahead militarily of all the middle east, so a massive new influx of arms and military aid to Israel must be in the pipeline?
We could be about to see those crazy Iranians get a right Holy Holy kicking :)
The Foreman rant was right after the Flotilla attack so I blame being a bit drunk and angry as the cause of that. Obviously I retracted those views immediately after. In a sound frame of mind I wouldn't think that.
Everything doesn't come back down to the Jews. It usually always comes down to America. As America's pet Israel invariably comes along for the ride. As a nation I find it's treatment of the Arabs to be shocking and unnacceptable. It isn't anti-semitic to come to that conclusion.
I will respond to your point about the Nobel Peace Prize winner authorising a massive sale of arms tomorrow as it is time for bed. I think you might have a rough idea where some of my thoughts might be going with that anyway.
We forgive you Mel....I mean miles ;D
sounds familiar, lemme think...Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN75p...eature=related
lol jkin miles. ;D love you man.
Uh-oh...
What is this?.. (Photos) Amir Khan linked to prostitute - National International Sports | Examiner.com
Right, back onto that issue of arms sales.
Well, of course I dissaprove. In fact it makes my blood boil that the US, Britain and Israel continue to be the amongst the top nations exporting terror. There is no other way to look at it. We build weapons to sell on to other nations at a profit and then sit and watch whilst those weapons are used to maim and kill innocent people. If the country is buying from us then that means they are on our side and we can typically turn a blind eye to how the weapons are being used. Rather than Al Quaeda being regarded as the leading terrorist threat, we should regard our countries as the leading exporters of terror. And then of course we have to evaluate our roles in conflicts over the last 40 years and then you come to the conclusion that we carry out our own mighty share of the killing and turn a blind eye to a lot of the rest (just as long as our interests are not challenged).
The possibility of war with Iran would be a perpetuation of the absurdities started with Iraq and this time I don't think the terror exporting allies would be wise to commit such an act. Obama is a poor president, but I don't know if he is that kamikaze. A lunatic like Sarah Palin is a different story. You reap what you sow as they say, and to invade Iran would see a bankrupt America overstretched once and for all. Hello Rome. And Israel more vulnerable that ever. And believe it or not, I don't actually want to see the destruction of Israel. I would just like all existing settlements to be abolished and for all borders to go back to the 1967 lines and then build two states that learn to coexist.
Obama decided that his next great mission was to create a nuclear free middle east. Well of course that meant ignoring the white elephant in the room....Israel. If you want a nuclear free middle east then Israel HAS to be part of that. However, there is no room for duscussion from America about that. Iran is a terrible regime, but as we saw in Iraq you DO need a deterrent. Israel has it's deterrent and has shown itself to be a rogue state far more dangerous than Iran. Israel tried to sell nuclear technology to a pariah state in apartheid SOuth Africa. Furthermore Israel has repeatedly commited war crimes in the region. This is a country that is allowed to have a deterrent and all discussion about dismantling that deterrent must cease? Meanwhile war drums are being built up because Iran knows it is under threat seeks a deterrent of it's own. Sheer hypocrisy. Of course, Israel is our ally and will do dirty things on our behalf. Iran simply doesn't like us or want to act like a subservient partner...they've gotta go.
Obviously I am in the south, but let's face it American is a bigger threat to world peace than China or Russia. In fact American economic shock doctors helped to make Russia the messed up place it is today and helped turn Chinese labour into the sweatshop producers with no rights that we have today. Just so long as we can have cheap imports, right? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
Ahmadinejad's 9/11 outburst sparks US walkout - Yahoo! News UK
I don't happen to think that 9-11 was caused directly by the US government, but it wouldn't surprise me. I haven't done enough research into the topic to come to any firm conclusions either way. I always find it funny when Ahmadinejad makes one of his left of centre speeches. Quite entertaining. Does it upset the US delegates so much to even hear such a suggestion? Though you do know it is only going to make those cold dead eyed monsters in the US command want to tighten their grip on Iran further, even though Israel freely walks around with all the nuclear weapons it wants. Double standards through and through.
miles -> :beatdeadhorse:
Miles, I like you and all and I would tell you that you've got America all wrong, but I may as well repeatedly slam my head into a brick wall as opposed to try and explain that to you because you're subborn and whatever, you can have your beliefs you have a right to be as dumb as you want to be (at least in the Western world you can think that)....I do wonder what would happen if you lived in North Korea and somehow found your way on to this site and posted ill of their government....hmmmm how would that go? Or how would it go if you were Chinese and you posted such things about China? But I suppose that's all beyond the point because then you'd be held responsible for your views by an oppressive government and that would take the fun out of it for you wouldn't it.
Is America perfect? No. Is any other country? NO...so you hold the US and Israel to a higher standard than you expect from every other country and it's just because they hold a bit of power.
The absolute fucking FACT is that people like you wouldn't like America no matter what we do. We intervene somewhere and we're "sticking our noses in other people's business" we don't intervene and we "allowed tragedy to occur"...your rhetoric against the US and Israel is harsh and cruel and your words on Russia, Iran, and China ring hollow because your HATRED of America just pours out in your writing and it's phoned in when you post about other countries.
Miles whats even more entertaining is that you give merit to that silly shit with no substance, I mean come on man. He's a button pusher and thats all he has even within his own boarders. Your mind is made up and its clear. Its glass..transparent. Mate I can laugh easily and life's to short to get bent here on politics,dismiss quality convo as this is a great avenue spanning globe but there is a difference in calling a Government to task on policy.....that is a citizens responsibility but when dealing with an obvious act of calculated out right cold blooded murder upon that same citizenry and that off multiple nations as had unfolded that day one needs to stand firm one way or another,with facts...this is not a "IMO" situation.
I would worry more about plotunium radiation. Ya know, plant accidental leakage from your friendly neighbour upnorth?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesObviously I am in the south, but let's face it American is a bigger threat to world peace than China or Russia. In fact American economic shock doctors helped to make Russia the messed up place it is today and helped turn Chinese labour into the sweatshop producers with no rights that we have today. Just so long as we can have cheap imports, right? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
And you don't worry about potential leakage from any of America's thousands of warheads? Or regarding the fact that America is the only nation to ever use nuclear weapons against a civilian population? Or how about in Faluja rates of cancer have increased at a faster rate then ever exhibited after the use of the nuclear bomb in Japan. Now that's the kind of thing that worries me a lot more.Quote:
Originally Posted by PacstraightleftI would worry more about plotunium radiation. Ya know, plant accidental leakage from your friendly neighbour upnorth?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesObviously I am in the south, but let's face it American is a bigger threat to world peace than China or Russia. In fact American economic shock doctors helped to make Russia the messed up place it is today and helped turn Chinese labour into the sweatshop producers with no rights that we have today. Just so long as we can have cheap imports, right? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
The policies of America's political elite speaks for itself over the past half a century. For sure you have plenty of freedoms regarding speech and that is commendable, but I don't live in North Korea and I would certainly never live in China. South Korea is not perfect, but I am able to say and do what I want without limitation.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Okay, America doesn't go rounding up it's own citizens and putting them into concentration camps, but it certainly does that to the citizens of people the world over or at least suports it. They routinely use methods of torture and train the secret service of other countries in the most effective ways to punish dissidents. They rountinely offer support to coups against democratically elected governments. We see this in numerous examples around the world. In fact it is difficult to find a country in latin America where the influence of America has not had an effect. How can you support a coup and then provide assistance in training a secret service that will than make thousands endure torture and thousand more dissapear entirely? That is evil behaviour. Is it okay just because it doesn't happen to be stopping U.S. citizens from spouting the nonsense that they are reading in their absurd media? Maybe if the media was doing a better job of informing then the US would need to start curtailing freedom of speech, but as it is there is really no need. The government and corporations are quite safe. No restriction of freedom of speech is ever acceptable and all regimes that do so should be rightly condemned.
I hold all countries to the same standards, but unfortunately the terror exporting nations show their true colours time and time again. As an Englishman I will inevitably focus more so on the countries that my country is in alliance with and for sure America and Israel are rather key partners. It is nothing to do with hate. How can you hate a country? But for sure I can exhibit a deep seated anger at the policies implement by the corporate and political elite of those countries. Just because you don't like what I am saying, doesn't escape the fact that it is all quite true. Nobody wants to be criticised and sometimes the truth hurts, but we all have to come to terms with things at some point.
[QUOTE=Bilbo;905830]Wow I didnt know that !Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I think it speak$ for it$elf: any talk of being on the $ide of right, peace, justice and the American way, just went out the window with another busine$$ deal.
The gov serve the biggest return on their future buck mate, they dont serve our citizens first. They do the minimum to save face the cheapest way possible. Look at the homeless they have hundreds of thousands living and dieing on streets.The problem is too big to address. Look at the extent of help in their own unfix able disaster zones like down south, they eventually give up and allow nature to take its course.
I dont blame them, but Im not buying into the reverse either, thats just as stupid.
Because the gov play Mr and Mrs Norm Basic and their flag waving kids like real fools all day every day just like our goverments do.
Fuk me you guys had an SAS execution squad in Northern Ireland ,no court, nothing, kidnap execute and bury some militant IRA suspects.
We all do it, we all pay for it to be done; Its cold blooded murder,all against the Geneva convention. The initial intent is always withheld from the public but the truth always comes out later as do all the excuses.
Suk it up. ;)
No, it's quite okay. I found that very funny too. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Youngbloodsounds familiar, lemme think...Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN75px-0KIo&feature=related
lol jkin miles. ;D love you man.
The whole anti-semite thing is annoying though as it is only ever Bilbo who keeps bringing it up. Is it really so taboo to be annoyed about and then speak of the terrible things the Israeli government keeps doing in the region, in particular to the Palestinians? I really don't think it is.
It's too easy to do that just because Israel is a Jewish State. Is my dislike of the American elite simply because I am racist? Is my dislike of Kim Jong Il because I hate Asians? Come on now, if there is one common theme in all of my ranting it is an intense dislike of authority that abuses power.
That and nothing more.
We learned it from the English Imperialists Miles. Might is right. Your wrong to think those ideals are shared among the common man, the rich are the oppressors remember that dude.
And the British imperialists were all wrong too. I don't care if we built railways in India, we had no right to be there. I'm sure that most informed people are against the decisions that the elite make. Unless of course they have a vested interest in the profits that can be made. Take the Iraq war, you don't see anybody defending that now. Now that the facts are all on the table everyone knows that it was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
I really believe that the common man is a fairly decent one, but is one that is perpetually excluded from the discussion. How best to deal with the common man? Ignore him. We will set the agenda and you will simply vote for the agenda we set. Therefore, no significant change will ever take place. In terms of Iraq at least Britain has an enquiry (useless though it is), in America there is no such thing. "It happened, let's not talk about it....move on". That is absolutely ludicrous! How can there not be an enquiry into the widespread looting, bloodshed and torture that went on and a total ignorance as to how the war was started in the first place? Those were the actions of a terrorist state and a state with no degree of self reflection or sense of remorse for what went on. In fact the way Obama spoke of Bush recently sickened me. There is no marked difference between the policies of the two men.
But for sure, I agree that generally speaking the rich are the oppressors. They are a sickly bunch though. That upper elite of 2% now controls how much of the worlds wealth exactly? How much money do these people need? Enough is simply never enough. Do we have to have Friedman style economics the world over with unemployment at 40% in every country? Will that be enough? No of course not...then they will want 45%. And then more cutbacks of services. And then....and then...ad infinitum.
Rant over.
And if anyone is interested here is a transcript of Ahmadinejad on CNN earlier this week. He doesn't seem all that mad at all and actually makes a lot of very good points. I'm not in favour of such a man though as he too is a power broker and no doubt over sees a lot of nasty stuff in his own country, but there is no escaping the hypocrisy in arguing that Obama's vision of a nuclear free middle east is a hoax.
CNN.com - Transcripts
Three days of national holidays are coming to an end today, so I won't be able to rant as much, but if anybody wants to keep debating I am more than willing to keep up the good struggle...just a little more slowly. :)
...A video game caused this rant. Perhaps Michael Moore also plays too much PS3
...along with Rush Limbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Rush loves America...never heard him run it down like Moore does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft...along with Rush Limbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'm just waiting for miles to play "The Sims" or better yet some old school game like "Zelda", "Q*Bert", "Super Mario Bros", or "Sonic The Hedgehog" so he can spew out more crap about elitists and the Jews.
I'm not fan of Michael Moore, but I would argue that you can love something and still point out it's flaws if you're doing so in order to effect change.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongRush loves America...never heard him run it down like Moore does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft...along with Rush Limbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'm just waiting for miles to play "The Sims" or better yet some old school game like "Zelda", "Q*Bert", "Super Mario Bros", or "Sonic The Hedgehog" so he can spew out more crap about elitists and the Jews.
I'm trying to find a way to connect Q-Bert to the Jews, but I'm failing miserably :mad:.
#1 Very true, but Michael Moore is a fat douchebag that hates AmericaQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI'm not fan of Michael Moore, but I would argue that you can love something and still point out it's flaws if you're doing so in order to effect change.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongRush loves America...never heard him run it down like Moore does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft...along with Rush Limbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'm just waiting for miles to play "The Sims" or better yet some old school game like "Zelda", "Q*Bert", "Super Mario Bros", or "Sonic The Hedgehog" so he can spew out more crap about elitists and the Jews.
I'm trying to find a way to connect Q-Bert to the Jews, but I'm failing miserably :mad:.
#2 I just listed random video games, hope that helps. Did you connect any of the other ones with the Jews? And it's not Q-Bert it's Q*bert.....there's a big fucking difference dude.
Nah, I think Miles should play the Metal Gear Solid series, there's like 4 of them and the US elite soldier gets fucked over by his government and there is a wider conspiracy behind it. I think he should play that game next. Or he should play Fallout 3, America becomes a desolate wasteland Mad Max style after a nuclear war with China.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongRush loves America...never heard him run it down like Moore does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft...along with Rush Limbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I'm just waiting for miles to play "The Sims" or better yet some old school game like "Zelda", "Q*Bert", "Super Mario Bros", or "Sonic The Hedgehog" so he can spew out more crap about elitists and the Jews.
BTW, I did say I was staying out of the debate, I'm just recommending a few games for Miles.
I suggest he play Risk...let's see how his Flower Power works out in that gameQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Fallout 3 looks very interesting.
I don't think Michael Moore hates America either. He is one of the the most patriotic Americans I have ever listened to.
I played a demo of Call of Duty yesterday and must admit that I was thinking "why the fuck am I playing this?". I've erased it now.
And for sure Dr. Robotnik is very much like Netanyahu. A nasty colonialist. Israeli's now control 42% of the occupied territories and it is all policed by the IDF. I just don't understand how you can overlook that, especially when the expansion is subsidised by your very own taxes.