America is an illegal and racist country much like Israel

[Gandalf]

I had a feeling that this thread would spark some reaction and that I would get some flak for it. I've no problems with that. I finished a game and then suddenly my mind started to wander and I decided to put those thoughts in a thread.

I must make a point though. I am not trying to say that Europeans haven't caused a lot of wrong in the world through the terrible processes of colonisation, but I was playing a game where Indians had been forced to leave their land and all for these horrid invaders who really had no right to the land. I then made a comparison with what Israel is doing to Palestine today. They are gradually stealing land from an indigenous population and the world just sits and watches. We went to war for WMD and yet we ignore the very same process that helped to create America today. I think part of that is a historical and current belief that the native Indians were primitive and that Arab lives simply aren't worth as much as Jewish lives.

I don't think that is a particularly controversial thing to say, and is all backed up by government action and policy.

[Kev]

I had a feeling that this thread would spark some reaction and that I would get some flak for it. I've no problems with that. I finished a game and then suddenly my mind started to wander and I decided to put those thoughts in a thread.

I must make a point though. I am not trying to say that Europeans haven't caused a lot of wrong in the world through the terrible processes of colonisation, but I was playing a game where Indians had been forced to leave their land and all for these horrid invaders who really had no right to the land. I then made a comparison with what Israel is doing to Palestine today. They are gradually stealing land from an indigenous population and the world just sits and watches. We went to war for WMD and yet we ignore the very same process that helped to create America today. I think part of that is a historical and current belief that the native Indians were primitive and that Arab lives simply aren't worth as much as Jewish lives.

I don't think that is a particularly controversial thing to say, and is all backed up by government action and policy.

Well I don't really have much to say, but a chance to wind Miles up cannot be ignored.

First off, you say the Jews took the land from its owners. They didn't. The people who lived there did not own the land. It was originally a territory of the Ottaman Empire and was then taken over by the British, who set up a mandate to legally give the land to the Jews. They have MORE of a legitimate claim to their land then virtually any other nation as it was ratified in a court of law

Second there were no indigenous people. There never was an indigenous Palestine. They comprise many races, Greek, Egyptain, Syrian, Bosnian ,Druzes etc. In fact in 1920 over 50 different languages were being spoken in Palestine.

Thirdly, the Jews didn't expel the Palestinians the Arabs did! They wanted them out of the way so they wouldn't interfere with their Jew slaughterings.

Unfortunately that war didn't go so well for the Arabs and they lost horribly. The Jews understandably were rather distrusting of their neighbours from that point on.

[Gandalf]

I had a feeling that this thread would spark some reaction and that I would get some flak for it. I've no problems with that. I finished a game and then suddenly my mind started to wander and I decided to put those thoughts in a thread.

I must make a point though. I am not trying to say that Europeans haven't caused a lot of wrong in the world through the terrible processes of colonisation, but I was playing a game where Indians had been forced to leave their land and all for these horrid invaders who really had no right to the land. I then made a comparison with what Israel is doing to Palestine today. They are gradually stealing land from an indigenous population and the world just sits and watches. We went to war for WMD and yet we ignore the very same process that helped to create America today. I think part of that is a historical and current belief that the native Indians were primitive and that Arab lives simply aren't worth as much as Jewish lives.

I don't think that is a particularly controversial thing to say, and is all backed up by government action and policy.

Well I don't really have much to say, but a chance to wind Miles up cannot be ignored.

First off, you say the Jews took the land from its owners. They didn't. The people who lived there did not own the land. It was originally a territory of the Ottaman Empire and was then taken over by the British, who set up a mandate to legally give the land to the Jews. They have MORE of a legitimate claim to their land then virtually any other nation as it was ratified in a court of law

Second there were no indigenous people. There never was an indigenous Palestine. They comprise many races, Greek, Egyptain, Syrian, Bosnian ,Druzes etc. In fact in 1920 over 50 different languages were being spoken in Palestine.

Thirdly, the Jews didn't expel the Palestinians the Arabs did! They wanted them out of the way so they wouldn't interfere with their Jew slaughterings.

Unfortunately that war didn't go so well for the Arabs and they lost horribly. The Jews understandably were rather distrusting of their neighbours from that point on.

That's the thing with colonialists. Who were the British to say that the land wasn't actually owned by those Palestinians? To anybody who thinks America is the one that I am always picking on, believe me, Britain with it's colonialist past, is a close number 2!
The people that lived there prior to Israel being created by the UN were the people that had lived there for generation after generation and I regard those as the indigenous population.

Anyway, I know the history of the region Bilbo. It is a sordid and messy one. But regardless, what we have right now is illegal settlement building on territories that are not Israel's. Step by step what remains of Palestine is being taken. Or should I say brick by brick? There is no attempt at peace and this is likely going to continue.

It is criminal and all existing settlements should be eradicated.

[Kev]

I had a feeling that this thread would spark some reaction and that I would get some flak for it. I've no problems with that. I finished a game and then suddenly my mind started to wander and I decided to put those thoughts in a thread.

I must make a point though. I am not trying to say that Europeans haven't caused a lot of wrong in the world through the terrible processes of colonisation, but I was playing a game where Indians had been forced to leave their land and all for these horrid invaders who really had no right to the land. I then made a comparison with what Israel is doing to Palestine today. They are gradually stealing land from an indigenous population and the world just sits and watches. We went to war for WMD and yet we ignore the very same process that helped to create America today. I think part of that is a historical and current belief that the native Indians were primitive and that Arab lives simply aren't worth as much as Jewish lives.

I don't think that is a particularly controversial thing to say, and is all backed up by government action and policy.

Well I don't really have much to say, but a chance to wind Miles up cannot be ignored.

First off, you say the Jews took the land from its owners. They didn't. The people who lived there did not own the land. It was originally a territory of the Ottaman Empire and was then taken over by the British, who set up a mandate to legally give the land to the Jews. They have MORE of a legitimate claim to their land then virtually any other nation as it was ratified in a court of law

Second there were no indigenous people. There never was an indigenous Palestine. They comprise many races, Greek, Egyptain, Syrian, Bosnian ,Druzes etc. In fact in 1920 over 50 different languages were being spoken in Palestine.

Thirdly, the Jews didn't expel the Palestinians the Arabs did! They wanted them out of the way so they wouldn't interfere with their Jew slaughterings.

Unfortunately that war didn't go so well for the Arabs and they lost horribly. The Jews understandably were rather distrusting of their neighbours from that point on.

That's the thing with colonialists. Who were the British to say that the land wasn't actually owned by those Palestinians? To anybody who thinks America is the one that I am always picking on, believe me, Britain with it's colonialist past, is a close number 2!
The people that lived there prior to Israel being created by the UN were the people that had lived there for generation after generation and I regard those as the indigenous population.

Anyway, I know the history of the region Bilbo. It is a sordid and messy one. But regardless, what we have right now is illegal settlement building on territories that are not Israel's. Step by step what remains of Palestine is being taken. Or should I say brick by brick? There is no attempt at peace and this is likely going to continue.

It is criminal and all existing settlements should be eradicated.

When the Jews moved back to Palestine it was virtually a desert. The population was very small. A significant majority of 'indigenous' Palestines actually moved in AFTER the Jews had transformed the landscape and made it habitable.

Your hatred of Jews is bordering on irrational imo and steps very close to anti semitism.

It's clearly not a loss of human life issue with you as the Jewish people have suffered more than any other nation in history down the centuries with holocausts and pogroms an eternal suffering for them. It just seems that Jewish suffering means nothing to you at all and the only people who are truly valuable are those killed by Jews.

China, North Korea, Iran, Russia etc have far far worse track records than Israel yet you never say a thing about them.

When the Israeli soldiers were attacked on the 'love boat' during the flotilla raid and killed some violent, armed thugs in self defence you went mad with rage and demanded justice. Yet when North Korea just casually sunk a South Korean (YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!) killing 46 people over 5 times as many as died in the Gaza flotilla incident, not a word from you. You simply didn't care, not bothered, only Koreans killing Koreans.

Has the Jews done that you would have probably have to have been banned due to the amount of condemnation threads you would have started.

I can't explain it as anything other than an intense hatred for Jews........

[Gandalf]

I don't hate Jews, so please let's not go back to that one again. As I said before when it comes to current affairs we a dealing with political and business elites. It is typically these people that I am railing against.

The average Jew who was forced to leave Russia and move to Israel due to economic shock treatments is not the person I loathe. But I certainly resent the elite that have built settlements and gone and put him there. It's just wrong.

Okay, maybe I should start a thread on every story that comes up. That's the thing with an internet board. I only post a certain number of threads, so you don't hear my conversations down the pub where I talk about the news and for sure I have spoken about the Cheonan. Just as I have gone on about all sorts of other things, including my issues with Israel. Out of all the threads I have started over the years, only about 2 have been about Israel. And I had a bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman in someone elses thread because I was still annoyed with the flotilla, but that's about it.

I speak about all sorts of things and for sure I have said critical things of China and Iran. If people post a story I am usually there with my views, but for sure no I've certainly not started a thread on Iran.

But anyway, please quit with the anti-semitism brush. It's too easy to use that and it's just not true. A Jew is just a Jew, some of my favorite writers and thinkers are Jewish. I don't purposely avoid them in some mad quest to avoid all things Jewish. Seriously, I just don't think like that. I am no Hitler and you will never see me doing anything daft like defending the holocaust.

[Kev]

I don't hate Jews, so please let's not go back to that one again. As I said before when it comes to current affairs we a dealing with political and business elites. It is typically these people that I am railing against.

The average Jew who was forced to leave Russia and move to Israel due to economic shock treatments is not the person I loathe. But I certainly resent the elite that have built settlements and gone and put him there. It's just wrong.

Okay, maybe I should start a thread on every story that comes up. That's the thing with an internet board. I only post a certain number of threads, so you don't hear my conversations down the pub where I talk about the news and for sure I have spoken about the Cheonan. Just as I have gone on about all sorts of other things, including my issues with Israel. Out of all the threads I have started over the years, only about 2 have been about Israel. And I had a bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman in someone elses thread because I was still annoyed with the flotilla, but that's about it.

I speak about all sorts of things and for sure I have said critical things of China and Iran. If people post a story I am usually there with my views, but for sure no I've certainly not started a thread on Iran.

But anyway, please quit with the anti-semitism brush. It's too easy to use that and it's just not true. A Jew is just a Jew, some of my favorite writers and thinkers are Jewish. I don't purposely avoid them in some mad quest to avoid all things Jewish. Seriously, I just don't think like that. I am no Hitler and you will never see me doing anything daft like defending the holocaust.

It's also too easy to just brush it aside and claim someone is playing the race card (I hate using that phrase). You say you talk about different things down the pub, that means nothing, what matters is what you talk about on here!

Everything relates back to the Jews for you, or America, you can turn literally any topic into an anti Israel, anti American speech. I mean come on, this thread was created because you played Red Dead Redemption and the good ole Wild West reminded you how much you hate the Jews and modern America!

You are obsessed! That bit where you say you had a 'bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman', is the rant where you said you wish for Cotto to smash him so you could see the blood dribbling down his chin because he was Jew rant?

There is no coming back from that Miles. When you get mad your true feelings are revealed.

If Israel killed 100 palestinians next week in an attack on Gaze you would be livid. If Hamas fired a missile that killed 100 Israeli's next week you would say 'well it's wrong but what do you expect from such an oppressed people?' and just condone it.

You are nuts. I say this respectfully of course.

By the way what are your views on Barrack authorising the biggest arms deal in the history of the US, selling $39,000,000 worth of planes to Saudi Arabia to prop up their defences against Iran. They have also promised to keep Israel ahead militarily of all the middle east, so a massive new influx of arms and military aid to Israel must be in the pipeline?

We could be about to see those crazy Iranians get a right Holy Holy kicking

[:::PSL:::]

Yo Miles.

Are you in South Korea, or North Korea? Why don't you focus more on your fucked up neighboring countries first? Start with China or Russia or somethin'.

Wtf man.

[Gandalf]

I don't hate Jews, so please let's not go back to that one again. As I said before when it comes to current affairs we a dealing with political and business elites. It is typically these people that I am railing against.

The average Jew who was forced to leave Russia and move to Israel due to economic shock treatments is not the person I loathe. But I certainly resent the elite that have built settlements and gone and put him there. It's just wrong.

Okay, maybe I should start a thread on every story that comes up. That's the thing with an internet board. I only post a certain number of threads, so you don't hear my conversations down the pub where I talk about the news and for sure I have spoken about the Cheonan. Just as I have gone on about all sorts of other things, including my issues with Israel. Out of all the threads I have started over the years, only about 2 have been about Israel. And I had a bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman in someone elses thread because I was still annoyed with the flotilla, but that's about it.

I speak about all sorts of things and for sure I have said critical things of China and Iran. If people post a story I am usually there with my views, but for sure no I've certainly not started a thread on Iran.

But anyway, please quit with the anti-semitism brush. It's too easy to use that and it's just not true. A Jew is just a Jew, some of my favorite writers and thinkers are Jewish. I don't purposely avoid them in some mad quest to avoid all things Jewish. Seriously, I just don't think like that. I am no Hitler and you will never see me doing anything daft like defending the holocaust.

It's also too easy to just brush it aside and claim someone is playing the race card (I hate using that phrase). You say you talk about different things down the pub, that means nothing, what matters is what you talk about on here!

Everything relates back to the Jews for you, or America, you can turn literally any topic into an anti Israel, anti American speech. I mean come on, this thread was created because you played Red Dead Redemption and the good ole Wild West reminded you how much you hate the Jews and modern America!

You are obsessed! That bit where you say you had a 'bit of a rant about Yuri Foreman', is the rant where you said you wish for Cotto to smash him so you could see the blood dribbling down his chin because he was Jew rant?

There is no coming back from that Miles. When you get mad your true feelings are revealed.

If Israel killed 100 palestinians next week in an attack on Gaze you would be livid. If Hamas fired a missile that killed 100 Israeli's next week you would say 'well it's wrong but what do you expect from such an oppressed people?' and just condone it.

You are nuts. I say this respectfully of course.

By the way what are your views on Barrack authorising the biggest arms deal in the history of the US, selling $39,000,000 worth of planes to Saudi Arabia to prop up their defences against Iran. They have also promised to keep Israel ahead militarily of all the middle east, so a massive new influx of arms and military aid to Israel must be in the pipeline?

We could be about to see those crazy Iranians get a right Holy Holy kicking

Well even going on what I say here, I really don't think there is enough to label me an anti semite. For sure I can be labelled a pretty severe critic of the Israeli elite and the continued repression of the Palestinians, but as an outright hater of Jews? I don't think so and I am not.

The Foreman rant was right after the Flotilla attack so I blame being a bit drunk and angry as the cause of that. Obviously I retracted those views immediately after. In a sound frame of mind I wouldn't think that.

Everything doesn't come back down to the Jews. It usually always comes down to America. As America's pet Israel invariably comes along for the ride. As a nation I find it's treatment of the Arabs to be shocking and unnacceptable. It isn't anti-semitic to come to that conclusion.

I will respond to your point about the Nobel Peace Prize winner authorising a massive sale of arms tomorrow as it is time for bed. I think you might have a rough idea where some of my thoughts might be going with that anyway.

[Andre]

[QUOTE=Bilbo;905830]

By the way what are your views on Barrack authorising the biggest arms deal in the history of the US, selling $39,000,000 worth of planes to Saudi Arabia to prop up their defences against Iran. They have also promised to keep Israel ahead militarily of all the middle east, so a massive new influx of arms and military aid to Israel must be in the pipeline?

We could be about to see those crazy Iranians get a right Holy Holy kicking

Wow I didnt know that !
I think it speak$ for it$elf: any talk of being on the $ide of right, peace, justice and the American way, just went out the window with another busine$$ deal.

The gov serve the biggest return on their future buck mate, they dont serve our citizens first. They do the minimum to save face the cheapest way possible. Look at the homeless they have hundreds of thousands living and dieing on streets.The problem is too big to address. Look at the extent of help in their own unfix able disaster zones like down south, they eventually give up and allow nature to take its course.

I dont blame them, but Im not buying into the reverse either, thats just as stupid.
Because the gov play Mr and Mrs Norm Basic and their flag waving kids like real fools all day every day just like our goverments do.

Fuk me you guys had an SAS execution squad in Northern Ireland ,no court, nothing, kidnap execute and bury some militant IRA suspects.

We all do it, we all pay for it to be done; Its cold blooded murder,all against the Geneva convention. The initial intent is always withheld from the public but the truth always comes out later as do all the excuses.

Suk it up.